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Author Topic: Gradient Mask Question  (Read 2011 times)
robertraymer
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« on: January 19, 2013, 08:14:48 PM »
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Im fairly new to C1, so hopefully this is not a dumb question, but when using a gradient mask are you able to adjust more than exposure. I have no problem creating the mask or adjusting exposure, but when trying to adjust anything else on the mask (color levels, sharpening, etc) it applies the adjustments to the entire image/background layer? Am I doing something wrong?

Any help is appreciated.

Rob
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ario
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2013, 09:33:00 PM »
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In CO7 all the layers tools can work either locally or globally.
In the drop down menu of each tool there is the possibility to check mark the option "Adjust Selected Layer", in which case the tool will act only locally. If the option is unchecked the tool will act as a global tool.
May be this is your case.
Ario
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robertraymer
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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 02:10:03 PM »
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I have done that already.

Some background...What I am trying to do is to created a warm tint gradient from the top of the image to the middle, then another cool tint gradient from the bottom to the middle. I added the "levels" tool to the local adjustments tool menu on the side so that I can do this using levels. I then created the gradient mask with no problem. When attempting to use the levels tool I notice that the "adjust selected layer" option is not available. I also noticed while trying to use other tools that the only tool that works specifically on the gradient mask is the exposure slider. Tracing my steps, I noticed that when I checked "layer 1" as the active layer, "background" remained checked. Try as I might, even when "layer 1" is checked and/or selected from the drop down, any adjustments I make to anything other than the exposure slider effects the whole image, even when "adjust selected layer" is checked.

Is there  no way to do what I am trying to do, or am I still doing something wrong?

Rob
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thko
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 03:29:06 PM »
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You can apply all editing tools which are available below the local adjustment tool, like exposure, colour editor, sharpness etc.

However you can't use the WB  or the levels tool within the local adjustment tool. So far they can only used on the whole image.

Thomas
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StephenCaissie
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 12:38:36 PM »
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As thko mentioned, levels and curves are not available as layer-specific tools. There is, however, a workaround for this. Make all of your basic adjustments, including your colour overlay/temperature settings as you would for one half of your image. Then simply duplicate the image and change the colour overlay/temperature settings to what you want for the other half. Output both files as full-res TIFFs and layer them in Photoshop, using a gradient in a layer mask. It's a bit more work, but until C1 starts including more tools in the layers pallette, it's the only way to achieve what you're after.
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Paul2660
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 01:41:33 PM »
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There is a bug in 7.x where if you are using multiple layers over the same area, the 2nd or top layer, defeats the lower layer.   This only happens with a color adjustment, you can make exposure, contrast, sharpening etc, with no problems.

Example, Sky,

I have an image where I am wanting to adjust the entire sky.  I will add a local adjustment layer, with the brush for the entire sky, make a color selection in the blue, and work hue sat, etc.  This effects all the area that is masked for the sky.  Now in this image, I have a bit of a color cast towards the edge but still in the sky.  I don't want adjust all the sky, just the parts with the color cast.  Here I would add a 2nd local adjustment layer using the gradient mask.  From the upper left corner towards the middle of the image.   I should be able to make a color color selection of the blue again and just work on the red cast, however when you make the color adjustment, you lose the part of the 1st mask that is under the gradient mask, it reverts back to the original.  This can cause the issue you are seeing, i.e. warmer lighter parts of the image popping back up. 

I have noticed this since the beta of 7 and have tried to Phase One's attention it several times.  It to me is huge deal on Capture and totally effects one of the main tools, local adjustments/color adjustments.  Recently I worked through this issue with Capture Integration and they were easily able to recreate the bug and took it up to Phase One.  Phase now "agrees" on the issue of the bug, but as for time line it's anyone's guess. 

Basically, once you have masked any part of an image with any of the tools, you cannot make a new layer over the first with any of the tools and make another color selection, as it defeats the layer underneath.   You CAN make exposure, contrast, brightness and saturation adjustments to both layers.

Bug is in both Mac and Win versions and on any camera file I have worked with, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Sony, and Phase One.

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
Photography > http://photosofarkansas.com
Blog> http://paulcaldwellphotography.com
EsbenHR
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2013, 12:20:04 AM »
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There is a bug in 7.x where if you are using multiple layers over the same area, the 2nd or top layer, defeats the lower layer.   This only happens with a color adjustment, you can make exposure, contrast, sharpening etc, with no problems.

You are correct that Capture One works that way. Although it is an annoying limitation, it is a conscious design choice.

The thing is, the color editor works by editing an ICC profile. This has the advantage that we are able to control the colors *very* accurately, which was always the primary design goal of this tool. It does have several disadvantages; for example, it takes a whole lot of processing and memory when you move the sliders. It is also not feasible to "Embed camera profile" if you do layered color edits, because there is no way to express how these profiles should be merged on a pixel basis.

While we are able to create color profiles relative to edits performed on the background, this is not an option for multiple layers. What you really want is to "blend" the color edits pixel for pixel. While this is possible in theory, in practice it would require us to make a number of hacks to make it run at halfway decent speed. This, in turn, is really only possible if you are willing to give up some of the color accuracy of the tool.

While the choice can be debated, we chose accuracy of the edits as the first ten priorities. I agree that the resulting behavior may be a bit confusing, but I still think we made the most useful choice given the constraints.

If we can figure out a way to do it fast, without sacrificing color accuracy, we will reconsider it.


Regards,

Esben H-R Myosotis
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Paul2660
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2013, 07:32:41 AM »
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This is an interesting response as Phase One agreed it was a bug last week.  Either way, it should have much better documentation.  The strength/power of the color editor to me is pretty limited by this.  Not sure I understand enough about your logic to answer as it seems this same thing is possible in photoshop with layers.   In photoshop you have to use the hue sat tool but there is still a selection method.

Even though you can't make a selection by color in LR, it is still possible to make multiple selections, by drawing a masks and you can alter the white balance within each selection even if you draw them on top of each other. 

The color selection option within Capture One to me is better, but this limitation is a disappointment. 

I also need to go back to version 6 and check this, as I thought it would work.  You were limited to only 5 local adjustments and no gradient mask, but I also felt that you could draw a mask over an existing mask, and still make a color selection not having the new one effect the older one.

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
Photography > http://photosofarkansas.com
Blog> http://paulcaldwellphotography.com
EsbenHR
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2013, 03:54:43 AM »
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Local white balance could certainly be implemented the way you would like it.

It is non-trivial, because the white balance affects many things. For example, the white balance affects noise suppression in a very nontrivial way just to mention one of the harder things to deal with. (That should be obvious for anyone who ever shot an image in candle light, which almost by definition, is very noisy and has an insane white balance).

Other lightweight tools would also be feasible. A criteria such as "I want to warm up this part a notch" is quite different from the uses the color editor is routinely used to deal with.

Now I just need to fix the top-500 items on my todo list ;-)


Regards,

Esben
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