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Author Topic: Capture One v7.0.2 and LCC profiles  (Read 5834 times)
Malcolm Payne
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« on: January 25, 2013, 08:24:54 AM »
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And yet another randomly occurring problem ...

My business is shooting artwork for reproduction. Following the extension of the feature to DSLRs, and a specific recommendation in Phase One's blog, I have been using the LCC tool to correct for lighting uniformity by photographing a blank white card under the same lighting conditions as the artwork. Previously I had used Robin Myers' Equalight software for the purpose, but it is very much more convenient to do this correction in Capture One as part of the RAW conversion, and it had worked faultlessly in V6.

V7 introduced major changes in the LCC process, and its operation now appears to be severely compromised, in that sometimes it will correctly generate an LCC profile and others it will not. In the latter instance, the uniformity corrections are still generated and can be clearly seen by toggling the Uniformity checkbox on and off, but the thumbnail does not show the 'LCC' tag of a successful profile and that image cannot then be applied to another image as an LCC correction.

The issue appears to be completely random; sometimes one blank image will generate a successful LCC profile while another nominally identical image in the same folder will not. The very same unsuccessful file will then sometimes work correctly at the first attempt when copied to another new, empty folder, or on another machine, or even occasionally in the original folder at another time. Equally, a previously successful file may then not work when tried again with the original RAW file copied to a new folder.

If opened in C1 v6 instead, the same files all generate a perfect LCC profile first time, with no problems whatsoever.

The files are correctly exposed for a white card under the same lighting conditions as the original artwork, i.e. to the right but with no clipping. Phase One's tech. support department suggested reducing the exposure so that the peak is in the centre of the histogram, to give the LCC tool more information to work with for a correct calculation, but this resulted in no obvious improvement; of the first three I tried with a centred histogram, none generated a corrrect LCC profile, while a further two similar images loaded into a new folder resulted in one success and one failure. Of a subsequent six images, five generated a correct LCC profile while the sixth did not. After copying the sixth (failed) file into a new folder it then generated an LCC profile on the first attempt, but would still not do so in its original folder even after a complete reset (i.e. all parameters cleared back to the original RAW file import).

Phase One claim they have no reports whatsoever that the LCC fails in Capture One 7 provided the RAW file is well exposed and histogram is placed in the centre. Again, it's not an issue of the specific software installation since the identical problem also occurs on my Win 8 laptop.

I love C1 for what I do - I've been using the pro version since v4 - and I'm otherwise mostly very happy with v7, but this issue has now been ongoing with Phase One since the end of October and is causing real disruption to my normal workflow. Just wondering if anyone has experienced anything similar or has any further insight or suggestions? The sheer randomness of the few problems I've experienced with v7.x is becoming exceptionally frustrating.
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tho_mas
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2013, 05:55:48 AM »
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V7 introduced major changes in the LCC process, and its operation now appears to be severely compromised, in that sometimes it will correctly generate an LCC profile and others it will not. In the latter instance, the uniformity corrections are still generated and can be clearly seen by toggling the Uniformity checkbox on and off, but the thumbnail does not show the 'LCC' tag of a successful profile and that image cannot then be applied to another image as an LCC correction.
the same here. Most LCC shots get labled with the "LCC" badge and therefore work as intended. But randomly on some LCC shots the "LCC" badge is missing. In this case you can save the LCC setting as a "preset" (pretty much the way it works in C1 V6) and apply it manually to the respective capture.

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Phase One claim they have no reports whatsoever that the LCC fails in Capture One 7 provided the RAW file is well exposed and histogram is placed in the centre. Again, it's not an issue of the specific software installation since the identical problem also occurs on my Win 8 laptop.
not true. They have at least reports from me with regard to V7.0 and V7.01 (I have to remind them that the issue still persists in V7.02). The issue applies to 3 different Mac computers here (Pro, MBPro and MBAir ... all on OS X 10.8.2). Phase One Support could reproduce the issue... so they confirmed the bug.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 06:11:23 AM by tho_mas » Logged
Malcolm Payne
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2013, 04:05:52 AM »
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Thank you for that information, tho_mas, and for confirming that Phase One have reproduced the bug - that's very useful to know, and at least proves that I'm not going entirely nuts! Thanks also for your tip about saving the setting as a preset instead - I'd missed that one.

My comment about Phase One not having had any other reports of problems with LCC profiles was an almost verbatim quote from their tech support department, so there appears to be some lack of communication - or denial - there.  I've always found their technical support to be unimpeachable in the past, so hopefully they'll catch up on this one and get it sorted soon.
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boje
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2013, 11:03:45 AM »
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We have the same problem. Sometime even the system (MAC pro) blocks, when applying LCC.
On a iMAC system, LCC is not showing up.
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aviv1887
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2013, 09:00:54 PM »
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I have similar problems and it have been a struggle since 7-7.02.  I also have process aberations from dust removal in LCC's.  No clear reply yet from Phase.
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mjon
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2013, 05:41:29 AM »
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I haven't had this problem but another one related to LCC: using LCC for dust removal is a hit and miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes you can't tick the option. Regenerating the LCC profile is of no help.

Chris

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EsbenHR
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« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2013, 11:16:36 PM »
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This is definitely a bug (or several) that I have been chasing for a while. I'm sorry if support said differently, but it is was very hard to reproduce this one.

You could always use the CO6 way, so it was mostly annoying because the new system is so much better than the old - when it works as intended that is. Sorry about the inconvenience...

Regards,

Esben
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Malcolm Payne
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2013, 03:17:51 AM »
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Thanks, Esben (and others, for confirming similar problems).

I had another occurrence of the problem just yesterday, on v7.1:

Captured tethered session on laptop, LCC profile generation failed.
Copied the session to the main editing PC, attempted to regenerate the LCC, profile generation failed.
Reset the file, LCC profile generation failed.
Copied just the single .NEF file to a new folder, opened that, LCC profile succeeded on the first attempt. I was then able to copy the file with the profile back to the original folder and apply it there.

For what it's worth, I was able to save the original (failed) LCC as a preset but couldn't seem to apply that successfully, though it had worked previously on v7.02. I need to have another look at that in more depth in case it was simply operator error on this occasion.

The problem is clearly not file-specific, rather an issue with the particular folder and/or default settings or even possibly some sort of interaction with other files in the folder?

I appreciate that it must be extremely difficult to track down something seemingly so random and illogical, however that is also what makes it so incredibly frustrating as a user. As you say, it's a much better method when it works.

Regards,

Malcolm
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Malcolm Payne
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2013, 04:47:08 AM »
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Further testing hints at some sort of possible pattern to the behaviour:

LCC generation with C1's default Base Characteristics for the camera mostly works.
Changing either the ICC profile or the Curve (I mostly use custom camera ICC profiles for specific studio lighting conditions, with C1's Linear curve) seems (usually?) to cause the process to fail.
Once the process has failed, reverting the Base Characteristics to the defaults does not permit a subsequent successful LCC generation of that file in that folder (or possibly with the extant associated Settings70 subfolder, or possibly the same filename).
Following a failure, further copies of the (renamed) original file in new folders do not necessarily work in terms of LCC generation, though the outcome of that still appears to be somewhat random.

That's still rather vague and indefinite, I'm afraid, but hopefully there are possible hints there that may be of some use to someone. Additional notes above have been copied to my existing support ticket with Phase One.
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EsbenHR
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2013, 02:50:59 AM »
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Hi.

I think we fixed the workflow issues in 7.1.1, so give it a good beating if you had problems.
You will need to reanalyze your LCC files to make the badges work correctly for existing sessions/catalogs.

Regards,

Esben H-R Myosotis
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Malcolm Payne
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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2013, 10:58:44 AM »
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Thanks for the update, Esben.

I haven't had chance to give this an extensive workout yet, but a quick test with some previous problem files suggests that it is working much better in v7.1.1.

One small oddity: when reanalysing previous files, in some cases the 'LCC' badge does not always appear until C1 is closed then reopened.

Best regards,

Malcolm
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Grischa Rueschendorf
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2013, 01:02:07 AM »
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I encountered a similar problem when I reopened a version 6 session file in C1 version 7 to see how the new engine would affect older edits:
after "upgrading " the session file all my LCC adjustments were missing.
Phase One tech support suggested upgrading to 7.1.1, that did not help.

But I found a work-around after noticing that my lens profiles for all lenses after upgrading a C1 6 library to 7.1 were missing. Instead of "generic" it said "none"
FYI images were shot with Alpa Technical camera.

here is what I did that helped though a very time consuming exercise:
1: created new Session file
2: imported all images with adjustments (I did not want to loose ratings and adjustments)
3: switched lens profile from "None" to Generic" on all images (simple lift and stamp)
4: redid all LCC profiles in a batch process after the upgrade to all white card images
5: at this point I needed to close down C1 and reopen for the LCC to be recognised by C1, before the LCC badge did not show and therefore could not be applied to the images
5: applied LCC again to all images - voila that did it for me.

Hope that helped if you got similar problems
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jeremydillon
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2013, 07:28:05 AM »
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I use windows seven. The little badge almost never appears. I just try to remember which files my LCC's relate to.
Another issue I've found is if the file path to you capture directory is long then the LCC's name can be truncated. This means that C1 can try have the LCC's for two white reference files be named the same.
The solution seems to be to try to put your capture folder closer to the root directory, or use shorter capture names.
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