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Author Topic: Travel Vista  (Read 4811 times)
kikashi
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« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2013, 02:46:06 AM »
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Oh, phleaaaaseee!

My post was not about teachers, for god's sake, but about the pompous, pseudo-intellectual lecturing by someone whose own photography can be described as mediocre at best and excruciatingly boring at worst.

Quite.

Jeremy
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Rob C
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« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2013, 03:44:43 AM »
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Slobodan, I've strayed here by mistake (no, that's a little fib: from boredom) and I have to tell you: you are wasting your time. Anyone who has been here with LuLa a while is familar with your pretty damned good shots, so rise not to the occassion, but simply let the holiday snaps from some others just flow; that's democracy, after all. Neither of us has to look!

As for curators, milkers of others' talents, gurus and general hangers-on, you already know my feelings on the topic.

Rob C
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William Walker
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« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2013, 04:11:57 AM »
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As for curators, milkers of others' talents, gurus and general hangers-on, you already know my feelings on the topic.

Rob C

That is our loss Rob...there is so much that you could contribute. I look at your website often, so I know... (the tap with the dripping water is my favourite).

William
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amolitor
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« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2013, 08:16:46 AM »
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Andrew, could it be that you feel threatened by "Redwoodguy" -it looks like he is right in the middle of "your" territory here? Stop this "dick-measuring competition"...Surely there is place for everyone here? I find your critiques just as helpful as "Redwoodguys". You both take time and thought with your opinions, stop wasting your useful energy on this silliness.

Mmm, it's possible! I have made the same observations, and inspected my motivations with a bit of care and I don't think so. That said, self-delusion is truly one of the things man does best. I've decided to step away a bit, mainly because it's not good for anyone to be squabbling. Also, whatever point I might have had to make is surely made by now.
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Rob C
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« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2013, 08:55:27 AM »
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That is our loss Rob...there is so much that you could contribute. I look at your website often, so I know... (the tap with the dripping water is my favourite).

William


Thank you, William.

The problem is, I simply don't believe in photography as teachable art. I do believe in photography (the art of) as something you really can teach yourself right to the limit of your personal capability. And for me and, I suspect, many of my era, that was done by looking at, buying, begging or borrowing books and magazines and really studying them and discovering why some things caught one's eye where others did nothing for one at all... Then, the best break of all was finally getting into an industrial photo-unit where I really, really learned how to print. There's a world of difference between makiing an overly dark landscape print because you think you like it, and making a print in either colour of b/white that exactly captures the tonality of, say, a broken turbine blade off a jet engine.

What I do think can be taught is function: how to work cameras, lenses and, today very importantly, Photoshop. Those too can be 'picked up', but as they aren't natural, teaching saves lots of time and effort and gets you there faster and probably better equipped with shortcuts etc. that you might never learn by yourself. I base that on my own rudimentary knowledge of digital manipulation. It would have been very nice to have had a place available where I could have paid a few bucks and had lessons.

Anyway, thank you again for looking at the website more than once!

;-)

Rob C
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Mjollnir
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« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2013, 08:58:43 AM »
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Do you take any photographs? I haven't seen any posted. Oddly, I also haven't seen any user critiques you've written. 


I asked a Paraguayan woman.  She gave me a hat.

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RedwoodGuy
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« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2013, 09:32:16 AM »
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Then you've not been paying attention.

Jeremy
Actually, I have. And nope, haven't seen any photographs from the fella. Lots of little posts, no photographs. If anyone wants to point out one I missed, that would be fine.
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Chris Calohan
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« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2013, 09:34:15 AM »
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Thank you, William.

The problem is, I simply don't believe in photography as teachable art. I do believe in photography (the art of) as something you really can teach yourself right to the limit of your personal capability. And for me and, I suspect, many of my era, that was done by looking at, buying, begging or borrowing books and magazines and really studying them and discovering why some things caught one's eye where others did nothing for one at all... Then, the best break of all was finally getting into an industrial photo-unit where I really, really learned how to print. There's a world of difference between makiing an overly dark landscape print because you think you like it, and making a print in either colour of b/white that exactly captures the tonality of, say, a broken turbine blade off a jet engine.

What I do think can be taught is function: how to work cameras, lenses and, today very importantly, Photoshop. Those too can be 'picked up', but as they aren't natural, teaching saves lots of time and effort and gets you there faster and probably better equipped with shortcuts etc. that you might never learn by yourself. I base that on my own rudimentary knowledge of digital manipulation. It would have been very nice to have had a place available where I could have paid a few bucks and had lessons.

Anyway, thank you again for looking at the website more than once!

;-)

Rob C

Having spent the better part of 12 years in a classroom teaching drawing, painting, ceramics, sculpture and printmaking and another 20 teaching photography, I can attest to Rob's ascertation to teaching someone to be an artist. Natural talent rears up constantly in a classroom and there are times when a good boot in the intellectual and artistic butt can open one's eyes to possibilities they can build upon drawing from a natural talent. All the instruction in the world, whether electronic or analog is of no value if the lamp's not plugged in, and the switched turned on. And many times, both occurances can take place but the light never hits full capacity. What I always strived to accomplish was to get the best out of anyone at their highest capacity. Sometimes the light flashed brillance. Sometimes the light merely flickered.

For the student who had the spatial and atmospheric persepective already embedded by some genetic seed, teaching art was truly a joy. They were few and far between. Sadly, many of my academically correct, but artistically challenged students now have websites, blogs and cameras calling themsleves professionals...and oh, it grieves me so. However, that in itself is an art - selling crap to the uneducated public. Long live P. T. Barnum.
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RedwoodGuy
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« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2013, 09:42:53 AM »
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Slobodan, I've strayed here by mistake (no, that's a little fib: from boredom) and I have to tell you: you are wasting your time. Anyone who has been here with LuLa a while is familar with your pretty damned good shots, so rise not to the occassion, but simply let the holiday snaps from some others just flow; that's democracy, after all. Neither of us has to look!

As for curators, milkers of others' talents, gurus and general hangers-on, you already know my feelings on the topic.

Rob C
So, this forum is only for a group who "has been here a while?" Others should get out of your private world? Is that about the point here? The horrors of democracy!
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amolitor
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« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2013, 09:54:43 AM »
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I suggest sorting the User Critiques forum by the Started By column (click on the "Started By" phrase in the top of the table). Now you have 122 pages of stuff to sift through, ugh.

However, if you look at the mess in the address bar, you will see than a number appears in that mess. 26.0 or 26.2000 or 26.3650 or whatever. The part after the dot is a starting post number. By editing this number you can display any section of the list of several thousand threads. Leave the "sort=starter" part alone.

With a little hacking around you can quickly zero in on any given name pretty quickly.

It's not as nice as the usual "find threads started by so and so" one finds on other forums, but it works, for the curious. Slobodan also has a flickr site indicated on his profile. As for my photographs, "amolitor" is one of the least google-proof names around. Feel free to search a bit.
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Peter McLennan
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« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2013, 10:22:50 AM »
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Works in this case.

Besides, teachers protesting it does not say much, does it? Btw, I happen to be a teacher, among other things.

Probably I should have written "as any good teacher will attest"

I've done many difficult jobs and teaching ranks right up there as among the most difficult. 

I still say it's a false statement, usually (but not always   Grin ) made by those who have never taught.
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RedwoodGuy
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« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2013, 10:25:26 AM »
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Thanks for the tips about searching the past. Actually, I was hoping to see some current work, that might go along with the current running commentary of the fella. His running commentary (well, the posts that aren't about testicles) would give any reader quite an expectation about his photographs. The self promotion is most impressive, and now the build up has been expanded by some of the other fellas, so you can see why someone new would be delighted to see this work. I am all about the photography and the critique here, and long discussions about one's testicles are no substitute for one's photographs.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2013, 12:05:03 PM »
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Given that my "current running commentary" is about testicles, are you absolutely sure you would like to see my "current work, that might go along with" it?
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RedwoodGuy
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« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2013, 12:14:52 PM »
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To prove, once again, that those who can, do, and those who can not, teach (ie, lecture about it)?
Since you brought it up....

This old saw is taken in most circles at face value without more than a simple "I object! I'm a dedicated teacher!" But a reasoned reply would go much further than simple objection because one is a teacher and doesn't want to be referred to as a talentless buffoon. I waited to see what kind of reply would come from teachers before commenting on this. They seem to have had their say.

What does it mean, and why is it used so often? It's a rant against knowledge in favor of the practical applications - or "applied knowledge." Our society is built on materialism at its core, and therefore a serious bias is in place for the producers of that material. e.g. More photo pinup calendars please, and less discussion of art. It's a vote for the value of production at the expense of just knowledge (all that pseudo-intellectual claptrap). There stands the teacher in his tweed coat and box lunch while I'm out here lifting the heavy weights and bringing home the bacon! Plumbers and bakers and candlestick makers are the most often sources of this outdated putdown about knowledge.  The gusto with which it is hurled at others is usually proportional to how much money one is making in their trade, because everyone understands that academics don't make much compared to say, Hollywood movie directors.

But knowledge is the more essential quest, and it is after all the tip of the spear of civilization's progress. Putting aside the rare inventor who operates on nothing but intuition, mechanics and engineers and a good many artists are trained by those with the fundamental knowledge. That they so readily turn and spit on their teachers with disdain is a reflection on the culture's new dynamics.



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RobbieV
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« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2013, 12:28:06 PM »
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I've noticed that a lot of people don't give enough time let character and personality come through on this forum. Especially the ones who begin life here with some sore spots.

When someone responds on a forum, it should be taken in context. You can't tell a lot about someone on a forum by looking at a a couple dozen of their posts. Face-value is never accurate on an Internet forum. Searching and reading someone's posts from the past without reading the context they were made in.

It takes a while to develop a good sense of someone's personality over the Internet, especially if it involves satire and wit (as much of Slobodan's posts contain). I remember reading in my earlier post academic studies that relationships over the Internet can take up to 9 times as long to develop when compared to face to face interaction.

I think the best advice is to go back and read old threads and see how things work around here. I don't mean this as a warning, but as a welcome. I'm not the best person to offer this advice as I'm relatively new here, but this is what has worked for me.

After re-reading one of Michael's old reviews, a quote came up that could be altered to use as a reminder for this forum.

 "It's the image, stupid!"

 Tongue
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RedwoodGuy
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« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2013, 12:41:40 PM »
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I've noticed that a lot of people don't give enough time let character and personality come through on this forum. Especially the ones who begin life here with some sore spots.

When someone responds on a forum, it should be taken in context. You can't tell a lot about someone on a forum by looking at a a couple dozen of their posts. Face-value is never accurate on an Internet forum. Searching and reading someone's posts from the past without reading the context they were made in.

It takes a while to develop a good sense of someone's personality over the Internet, especially if it involves satire and wit (as much of Slobodan's posts contain). I remember reading in my earlier post academic studies that relationships over the Internet can take up to 9 times as long to develop when compared to face to face interaction.

I think the best advice is to go back and read old threads and see how things work around here. I don't mean this as a warning, but as a welcome. I'm not the best person to offer this advice as I'm relatively new here, but this is what has worked for me.

After re-reading one of Michael's old reviews, a quote came up that could be altered to use as a reminder for this forum.

 "It's the image, stupid!"

 Tongue

Robbie,
I am not sure...but I think your post was directed at least partially to me. If not, ignore my response below!

1. First impressions are most reliable impressions - rarely fails.
2. I don't believe in hazing.
3. My interest is photography and art, not forum cliques, locker room towel snapping, and long-winding threads on testicles
4. I always attempt to start from a positive position when critiquing photos. I fail from time to time to do that, but it is my intention.
5. I understood this to be a public, not private forum. I don't feel any obligation to performing a 'psychological history and profiling' of everyone who chooses to post here.  I am perfectly comfortable with taking people on what they post, as they post.

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Jaffy
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« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2013, 01:10:18 PM »
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Hi Redwoodguy,

Quickest way I know to find image posts by members is to go to critiques, click on the "started by" header which puts them in alphabetical order, you can then quickly step through 3 pages at a time,
Slobodan's posts are here;
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?board=26.3240;sort=starter

If you go to his sites in his sig you'll see he is a good photographer.

Your critiques are good as well as they make me think.

My cred is currently zero as I've not posted an image yet!
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Rob C
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« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2013, 01:11:23 PM »
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Nope, Mr Redwood, you missed your shot.

Two guys go to art school. Both get their degrees at the end of it.

One continues in academia, teaching art in schools; the other goes out into the world and sometimes makes his millions. Education isn't exclusive of either.

It's about choice, sometimes cojones, desire and also about the ability to put what you learned into productive practice.

Regarding the throwaway jibe about pinup calendars: I suggest you dig a little bit and go discover who was behind some of the classics of the last fifty years; you'd be surprised. Or not, depending on how hard your carapace, or how profound that inability to see further than the end of your prejudice. We already enjoyed your reference to pornography; do pinup calendars such as Pirelli, Mintex, Belaco, Pentax et al. fall within the remit of your mindset on the matter? Of course, you may well be familiar with others more obscure, requiring specialist knowledge to discover them, where your contentions might actually be fact: I don't know those waters - I don't navigate them.

I really smiled at your reference to the guy in tweeds: you were absolutely accurate, but you missed the corduroy trousers,

Several decades ago I happened to find myself in London with time to kill, so I took myself to Hamilton’s Gallery where they were running a show of Mapplethorpe’s brother’s work. As I walked slowly from shot to shot, I became aware that I was being trailed a picture behind by the very man you described (didn’t notice a lunch box) who was giving a running commentary to a woman, explaining the photographs to her as they went along.

It wasn’t difficult to be distracted from the pictures, so I decided to listen in. It was delightfully educational: one shot, of a person standing in front of a white wall covered with very textured paper really made me struggle to supress the mirth. The fact that the wallpaper showed the texture of its fabrication was applauded and pointed out as a wonderful display of photographic pyrotechnics! As a professional photographer, the question would have been: how could you possibly avoid that texture in a side-light situation? I have no idea who the cat in cords was: dealer, boyfriend or ‘uncle’ but his credibility and that of his companion, if she bought into the spiel, lie forever in tatters in my memory.

No doubt, he might fit your definition of savant?

Rob C
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William Walker
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« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2013, 01:18:21 PM »
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The problem is, I simply don't believe in photography as teachable art.



Rob, I was not really thinking of it in those terms. Every now and then you do choose to make a (serious) comment - a simple observation, perhaps - and it makes sense! Something is learned.

A few more of those is what I was thinking...

William
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Rob C
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« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2013, 01:22:24 PM »
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Hi Redwoodguy,

Quickest way I know to find image posts by members is to go to critiques, click on the "started by" header which puts them in alphabetical order, you can then quickly step through 3 pages at a time,
Slobodan's posts are here;
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?board=26.3240;sort=starter

If you go to his sites in his sig you'll see he is a good photographer.

Your critiques are good as well as they make me think.

My cred is currently zero as I've not posted an image yet!



I don't remember you offending anyone, so maybe your creds a lot higher than some?

;-)

Rob C
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