WikiMedia photo budget - WikiMedians accredited to photograph pop concerts

[N Walker]

WikiMedia upload the images to their website for free use; including those who might have engaged a pro photographer to take pictures of the people and events.

http://www.londonfreelance.org/fl/1301wiki.html

[Rob C]

WikiMedia upload the images to their website for free use; including those who might have engaged a pro photographer to take pictures of the people and events.

http://www.londonfreelance.org/fl/1301wiki.html

What can I say? It's exactly the same thing as has happened with stock, the pro is fucked. But don't expect any sympathy here within the LuLa membership - the only replies I remember to my own complaints about penny-stock was that nobody (meaning pros) has a right to expect to continue earning a living on a level playing field.

Odd how the very same people can complain about photo-contests not treating them fairly, though...

So I lost my pension, my expected standard of living, but hell, at least I still have my self-respect!

Rob C

[KLaban]

What can I say? It's exactly the same thing as has happened with stock, the pro is fucked. But don't expect any sympathy here within the LuLa membership

Ahem...

[Rob C]

Ahem...

Oops! Let me rewrite:

But don't expect any sympathy here within the LuLa non-professional photographer membership.

Whew, that was close!

;-)

Rob C

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Ahem...

Wasn't it you, Rob, who first used the phrase "nobody ows you a living," though in the context of other social and economic issues we discussed here? 

[opgr]

People should realise that we are reaching the point where producing images is as simple and ubiquitous as producing words. Now, on the subject of rocket-science, would anyone find my production of words in any way as relevant as those of the rocket-scientist?

I sure hope I won't have to limit my verbal and written productions just because the rocket-scientist may feel a lack of sympathy on the part of the layman. 

[Rob C]

Ahem...

Wasn't it you, Rob, who first used the phrase "nobody ows you a living," though in the context of other social and economic issues we discussed here?  

And I still believe it. However, I do also believe in a level playing field, which means that you put your money where your friggin' mouth is, screw your courage up to breaking point and take the plunge to be a real, full-time photographer. Or, alternatively, get the hell out of the pond and stop depositing piss in it for the other swimmers to get in their mouths.

As you must know, I have the same belief regarding the economy at large: I have never believed that any manufacturer should have different prices for different shops. It's madness. In the UK we used to have a system of retail price maintenance, and as we've discussed here before, you could buy your camera at the same price everywhere, and so local dealers could stock stuff, demonstrate it, and you could buy with confidence and, should anything go wrong, they were there to take it off your hands and deal with the supplier on your behalf. That way, you both built up mutual respect and appreciation. And saved a lot of time.

People (on LuLa) have decried this belief as some sort of totalitarian/communist notion from a bygone age. That’s a mistake. Large companies always got richer than the smaller, but they got richer on their own merits, by economies of internal scale, not by outbuying the competition. And as far as brand/maker competition goes, it isn’t affected at all, in fact, if anything, it has a base on which to survive and grow. Consider how many small camera makers have gone, and no, they were not all producers of rubbish, they just became victims of the giants.

Extending the philosophy of the-monster-take all has brought us to where we are today; empty high streets, nobody able to stock anything locally, and disgruntled buyers (read LuLa) who, at the end of the day, have saved a few bucks but lost a helluva lot more. You never win when you surrender to the bully, and that’s what it has turned into today.

But hell, many seem to be oblivious to this fact and, if anything, would much prefer to stone the messenger instead.

However, as I still have the option, if limited, I remain loyal to the independents every time.

Rob C

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... I do also believe in a level playing field...

Fair enough. I am all for the level playing field. But at what level it should be leveled? Who's to say that it should be at the pro (or yesteryear) level? If amateurs can supply good enough quality, the field is leveled again, just at a lower/different level.

Levelheaded enough?

[Rob C]

Fair enough. I am all for the level playing field. But at what level it should be leveled? Who's to say that it should be at the pro (or yesteryear) level? If amateurs can supply good enough quality, the field is leveled again, just at a lower/different level.

Levelheaded enough?

No.

The field would be level when each person earned his keep in his own job. I'll illustrate that: when I applied to join this Spanish agency that I went to after quitting my English one, I had to provide tax documentation before they would deal with me. Sounds fair to all the other photographers.

On the other hand, here on Holiday hell, there’s a problem facing most hoteliers every year: absolute closure during winter. As I remember providing pix for Winter Sunshine brochures, I know this is a phenomenon that happened well before the ’08 crisis and isn’t due to shortage of tourists’ money. What happened is that many foreign people bought holiday homes they couldn’t afford, hoping to pay for them from lettings, and so began to rent them out illegally. Yes, illegally. You have to have a license to rent them out, and they have to meet safety regulations regarding escape staircases etc. that most private buildings don’t have. Also, the comparatively sudden tourism riches permitted many local people to buy second villas and they, too, joined the illegal lettings market. So, the airport entry figures show increasing millions coming into the Balearics each year, but the hotels are pushed to reach workable levels of occupancy outwith August, when everything, even the kennels and pigstys are fully booked.

The laws are there, but corruption and greed prevents or discourages the local authorities, many of whom are personally guilty of illegal letting, from acting. As a result, legal hotels are suffering, lie quiet or closed most of the year. To survive, some got into the ‘all inclusive’ business, and no need to ask what that did to independent restaurants and bars and, importantly and viciously, to employment and families. Unemployment is over 50% for young people here, people who would once have found at least some work servicing those very dead establishments.

The result of greed doesn’t stop at the first action. Its ramifications spread like a cancer throughout society at large.

What’s happened to stock photography is simply more of the same: greed. One job that pays your way isn’t enough anymore for some; thousands of people feel free to destroy other’s livelihoods for a few miserable dollars a year, dollars they would never miss, but when those same dollars are taken from the mouths of the relatively few professional, working photographers specializing in the business, they add up to mean a helluva lot.

A pro faces no real threat insofar as commissioned work is concerned. No client in his right mind puts such stuff in the hands of an amateur – weddings speak for themselves.

So no, you describe no level playing field; you describe a continuing salving of the shamateur conscience.

Rob C

[KLaban]

Evolution; adapt or die.

[chez]

Evolution; adapt or die.

No it's more like adapt, bitch or die. Here I'll lend you boys my hankie.

[Rob C]

No it's more like adapt, bitch or die. Here I'll lend you boys my hankie.

What do you do for a living?

Rob C

[KLaban]

No it's more like adapt, bitch or die. Here I'll lend you boys my hankie.

What is it you think I'm bitching about?

[chez]

What is it you think I'm bitching about?

No...not you. Others that seem to continually bitch about the amatuer coming in and taking food of their table. Rather than adapt...they would rather bitch.