Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Rodenstock Apo-Sironar 55f4.5 questions  (Read 2129 times)
chrismuc
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87


« on: February 09, 2013, 06:03:56 AM »
ReplyReply

Questions for users of the Rodenstock Apo-Sironar 55f4.5.

1.
Is this a re-branded Apo-Grandagon or a different design? From which year is the design? It is really apochromatic corrected?

2.
Alpa offers this lens "optimized for infinity". I assume that this lens has no floating element. So for focusing the whole lens is shifted. How to "optimize" it for a certain distance?

3.
Is it a symmetrical or a retrofocus design?
 
4.
Alpa (or maybe Rodenstock too) recommends that lens for backs with larger than 9um pitch width. But MTF of the lens has constant 60% contrast across the 54x40mm frame at f11 at 40 lp/mm. That would be acc. my experience sufficient for at least a 6um back equals 60 MP. Any experience?

5.
Is the lens (stopped down) "quite as good" as the more modern Rodenstock designs like HR-W 50f4 or visibly less sharp (esp. towards the corners).

6.
Is LCC necessary with a 54x40mm back w/o shift resp. w/ shift?

7.
Is the center filter necessary for any aperture or maybe not at f8 or f11?

Thx Christoph

Logged
NROCH
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 35


WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 06:10:19 AM »
ReplyReply

I'm also interested in the answers to these questions as I'm weighing the lens up against a Schneider 47xl digitar or the Rodenstock HR-W 50mm. I  shoot on a P45+ and RL3D so movements are important
Logged

chrismuc
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87


« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 09:25:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Yes, the lens looks really interesting because many are offered 2nd. hand for a reasonable price (compared to actual Rodenstock and Schneider lenses of similar focal length) and because the image circle is very large, so it should be also suitable for shift movement with good result.
Logged
Paul2660
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2015


WWW
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 09:34:38 AM »
ReplyReply

The 55mm is in the older Apo-Sironar digital / Apo-Macro-Sironar digital family and I am not sure if this family of glass has a retrofocus like the HR and HW both have. 

The 55mm is optimized for F8 to F11, and has much shallower DOF than the new HR' and HW's.  Tilt can help some here.  The image circle is huge at 125mm and on a P45+ should allow shifts of close to 25mm to 30mm.  I don't think that Rodenstock makes a physical CF for this lens.  I opt'd for the 60mm Schneider mainly due to the shallow DOF of the 55mm, at least in my limited testing.  The Schneider also seems best in the F8 to F11 range.  I have only found the HR and HW Rodenstocks to be good in the F4 to F8 range.  The 28mm HR is very impressive at F5.6 and I have considered selling a few of my Schneiders to pick up a HW-40. 

As already mentioned most often the 55mm is 1/2 the price of the new HW's or a Schneider 60mm. 

I have the 105mm in this family.  I use it on a IQ160.  Shifts easily to 25mm, however the lens IMO lacks the look of the newer Rodenstocks, in both color and contrast, especially the later.  I realize some of this can be added in post.  However when I use the 105, I am always surprised at how "flat" the images look compared to the shots taken with the newer lenses. 

If you go to the main Rodenstock website, they have a very good write up on all their lenses, if you can't find it feel free to pm or email me, I will be more than happy to send the file.  It breaks out the families very well.

Paul Caldwell


Logged

Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
Photography > http://photosofarkansas.com
Blog> http://paulcaldwellphotography.com
dkaufman
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2013, 02:10:39 PM »
ReplyReply

I've had one for two years and it's a surprisingly good lens at f/11 even down to f/16. I use it for architecture, stitching two or three pieces at a time with an Arca Swiss M-Line Two with a Phase 40+ back. I also have the HR 40 which is the best lens in the HR line of those I have (I also own the 32mm and 70mm) but the 55 holds its own. Even with a 15mm rise it has a useable shift out to 20mm or a bit more. After that it starts smearing a bit towards the image circle but not as badly as the 47mm Schneider which smears quite badly about two thirds of the way to the image circle edge (and also should be used around f/11 to f/16). If you need the rise and shift, it's great. At larger apertures (F/8) you get more centre sharpness but overall with stitched images you get better results at f/11 or even f//16. It's depth of field behaves as it should although I think there is some field curvature and one should perhaps focus a little deeper into the scene than is intuitive (but I have the same issue with the 70mm HR). One caveat: The lens I purchased appeared to me to be somewhat decentred and I had to send it back to Rodenstock, which agreed there was aproblem and fixed it, and it has been excellent ever since. For the price and the image circle, it's a very good value.
Logged
RomanN.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 337


« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 12:14:46 PM »
ReplyReply

1.
Is this a re-branded Apo-Grandagon or a different design? From which year is the design? It is really apochromatic corrected?

Yes, the same lens, the same design. The Digital version is calibrated-with very thin rings on the front element- on the chip, the size of the filter in front of the chip is the issue. They are all Apo, or what nowerdays the industry called Apo. Late Super Angulon MC 5,6/47 mm is the same lens as Apo Digitar 47 mm ( first called Digitar- the Apo was added ony as advertasing like rodenstock does)
Schneider 47 mm and rodenstock 55 mm must achieve same results, when not the lens is not good calibrated and should be send to the factory.

2.
Alpa offers this lens "optimized for infinity". I assume that this lens has no floating element. So for focusing the whole lens is shifted. How to "optimize" it for a certain distance?

no floating elements egsist in every schneider and rodenstock, but you will not need it.

3.
Is it a symmetrical or a retrofocus design?
 
ofcourse no retro, only HR are retro.
4.
Alpa (or maybe Rodenstock too) recommends that lens for backs with larger than 9um pitch width. But MTF of the lens has constant 60% contrast across the 54x40mm frame at f11 at 40 lp/mm. That would be acc. my experience sufficient for at least a 6um back equals 60 MP. Any experience?

55 mm works on 80 mln back without problems. Is HR better? maybe sharper at the ideal App, but you must sometimes use app.11 or 16 so it will be no real difference.

5.
Is the lens (stopped down) "quite as good" as the more modern Rodenstock designs like HR-W 50f4 or visibly less sharp (esp. towards the corners).

at app.8 best center, at 11-16 best for shift.

6.
Is LCC necessary with a 54x40mm back w/o shift resp. w/ shift?

you should do this, you must do LLC at shift.

7.
Is the center filter necessary for any aperture or maybe not at f8 or f11?

center filter is necessary when you shift, so when you use a bigger image circle.
the App. is not really important for CF but how big is your movement. 5 mm is no problem, for 10 mm  and more you should use it.
It is really cheap lens, and very good one. You will not find a perfect lens, even 40 WHR is really not perfect, but cost 4 times more.
I hope, i could help.
Logged
tjv
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 78


« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2013, 01:01:00 AM »
ReplyReply

I'm shooting 6x7cm film and scanning with an Imacon 949, so take this with a grain of salt...
My sample of this lens is absolutely brilliant, even with large (15mm) shifts, corner to corner.
I briefly had loan of the Schneider 60mm and it was great too but at least on film there was no difference, although less room for movements.
From my observations, there is pretty significant field curvature on the 55mm. When focusing on the GG of my Linhof Techno it is plainly obvious under the focusing loupe. I've not found it a problem at working apertures, e.g. f11.
If I were buying for a digital setup only, I'd not hesitate to look at the 55mm Rodenstock but would probably prefer the 60mm Schneider.
TJV
Logged
EricWHiss
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2452



WWW
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2013, 01:31:39 AM »
ReplyReply

I have one in Rollei electronic shutter and have shot this with the AFi-ii 12 mounted to an X-Act2.   I thought it worked quite nicely with the 80mp back, better than the schneider 47mm, but what do i know? :-)  I liked the lens.
Logged

Authorized Rolleiflex Dealer:
Find product information, download user manuals, or purchase online - Rolleiflex USA
chrismuc
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87


« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2013, 05:09:17 AM »
ReplyReply

Thx all for your valuable information! Great to hear that the 55mm Apo-Sironar/Grandagon performs well with the latest full format backs. From the MTF data, the 45mm version should perform similar, the 35mm version less good towards the edges and with shift. Is that so, any experience with these two lenses?
Logged
RomanN.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 337


« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2013, 06:31:00 AM »
ReplyReply

You can use the Rodenstock 35 mm and also the 38 mm Super Angulon with all backs, but when you want to shift there is a problem with 80 mln backs, that the CC can not be handle by the software. The same problem is with apo digitar 35 mm. The 38 mm handle it better than 35 mm, becouse the distance between the lens and the chip is at 38 mm SA bigger becouse of the spacial lens construction than at 35 mm lenses. Shift till 7-8 mm is is OK, sometimes more, but about 10 mm the software does not work, you get edges dark and out of color. This is only with 80 mln chips, all other back have not these problems. If you use classic backs like Phase one 45,H3D39, H4D50, and others you can shift without these problems, but the sharpness at the corners will become poor when shift mor than 15 mm and you must use app16, or maybe more.
Second- most camera systems have problems by using 35 mm lenses, most of tham does not allow to use 35 mm with a slidding back, only with the direct adapter.For example Arca swiss can not do it, but cambo Ultima can, even with the sliding back. For using 35 mm you really need a good kamera system, really made for digital and not old 4x5 systems.
The sharpness of the Rodenstock 35 mm is not bad, SA 38 mm seems be better-a bit- the Digitar 35 mm is much sharper at App 8, 11 but at 16 they are similar- you need to use 16 at big shift. The 55 mm is sharper than 35 mm, it is much more easier to use and have not these big color cast.
sadly only 32 mm HR is a really good lens for 80 mln backs, but very expensive, and I never see it second hand.
Logged
bradleygibson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 829


WWW
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2013, 07:48:15 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi, Chris,

Good information on these lenses is hard to find.  I just picked one up recently, and have been learning how to use it on my new setup.  Here is a torture test file--roughly monochromatic scene with lots high frequency detail throughout the frame, so any aberrations or fringing characteristics will show up.

Focusing a wide angle on ground-glass was challenging (and my eyes aren't 100% any more), but definitely doable.  With more practice, I think focusing will be a non-issue.

Details: Apo Sironar Digital 55mm f/4.5 @ f/8, Arca-Swiss M-Line Two with Leaf AFi-II 10 Digital Back.

Hopefully this won't blow out my webspace bandwidth, but here we go.  Here is a direct link to the original raw file (70MB).  Hope that is helpful.

I think you'll be impressed with the lack of fringing and other artifacts of this 'old design' lens on a 56-Mpxl resolution digital back.  I've shifted it as as far as 24mm in either direction.  When going that far it needs cast correction, but so far is producing stellar results.

http://gibsonphotographic.com/share/web/4chrismuc/Akashi%20Kaikyo%20Bridge.mos
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 03:22:21 PM by bradleygibson » Logged

theguywitha645d
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 970


« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2013, 09:25:23 AM »
ReplyReply

I have the 55mm. I use it with a p25+ back. Without shifts, it is a really nice lens. I do use LLCs with it, but that is usually with shots of very neutral objects--grays and whites. The lens cast is not bad and would not be obvious on colored objects. I also use it in the studio and I did have its Grandagon brother on an SW612. The lens is really good at any distance. When you start to shift or tilt/swing, the extremes of the image circle are not great and can be bad, but it does have a huge image circle.
Logged
ben730
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21


WWW
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2013, 08:37:11 PM »
ReplyReply

I also use the 55 with a P25+. First, I used it on my Cambo Ultima. I had a lot of problems because the viewfinder image is very dark. Shifted it was on location to dark for me to focus and I was not able to see if the 2 standards of the Ultima were parallel.... Everything was too closely spaced. It's not a retrofocus!

Then I mounted it on my Cambo WRS and I use it with the iPhone holder, the Alpa HPF-ring for the Alpar 55 and a Bosch DLE40 laser.
It's like a new lens now. Even with +- shift 25 mm everything I want is sharp at f11.5. In back light situations it's better then the SK 35 digitar. Only the depth of field could be longer.
Logged

RomanN.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 337


« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2013, 05:15:36 AM »
ReplyReply

about focusing problems on Ultima and other traditional large format cameras:
yes, this is a problem, but can be used. The most sliding backs have very poor screens but you can change them to bright one like maxwell and a frensel screen.
I use now a kapture group sliding back and it it really nice, very bright and the frensel make the also the corners clear. I use a 8x Lupe to focus very exactly. Now my system work as good or better that my Cambo WDS.
So it is possible to work fine with traditional large format systems and sliding backs but it need some experiences.
Such systems are also much, much cheaper as the pancake systems. I use the 55 mm on the standart Arca swiss F 6x9, easy system to use.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad