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Author Topic: Can't see the wood for the trees  (Read 1678 times)
Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« on: February 09, 2013, 11:46:55 AM »
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Taken a couple of hours ago.

Abstracting the landscape, it's seems to be what turns my crank as Michael would say.

Dave
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 12:25:16 PM »
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I remember seeing something similar from you in the past, and, in both instances, I like it.
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 06:25:46 PM »
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I remember seeing something similar from you in the past, and, in both instances, I like it.

Thanks Slobodan, much appreciated  Smiley

Dave
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Chris Calohan
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 07:37:09 PM »
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If I might somewhat hijack your thread, I would like a fair assessment as to why this shot is so much better than one I posted earlier which was totally panned. I am not afraid of criticism but some is always better than being passed over completely.


 
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 08:23:54 PM »
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If I might somewhat hijack your thread, I would like a fair assessment as to why this shot  is so much better than one I posted earlier which was totally panned. I am not afraid of criticism but some is always better than being passed over completely.

I am a bit confused, Chris. By "this shot," are you referring to Dave's OP shot and by "one posted earlier" you are referring to the image you just posted in this thread? Or...? Also, where is the thread in which your shot was "totally panned?"

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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 09:18:45 PM »
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Dave's OP shot above.
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2013, 07:27:39 AM »
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Dave - wonderful photograph as we've come to expect form the Isle of Skye. Definitely one for the wall - a photograph I could stare at and enjoy for a long time.

chrisc - The difference is that Dave's photograph has a mysterious and magical quality to it. It's difficult to put into words but, it seems he hasn't given too much away; viewers are "forced" to look at the photograph for a moment to become oriented using the clues he has left. Also, the light and colour are magical in that they create a subtle movement of their own, spilling downwards from the top right. While we have seen this type of photograph before, Dave has seen/captured/rendered it in a delightfully different way.

While you've done everything correctly in making your photograph in that you've taken advantage of some great three-quarter lighting and the repetition of the tree limbs and moss, once I've seen it, there's nothing to draw me back into it in the same way as Dave's photograph. Wood4trees invokes an extra quality that photographers search forever to achieve and is simply not available every time you frame an image even with great lighting and composition.

One other point, chrisc, try flipping the image horizontally. We in the West read from left to right; often (but not always) a photograph is "stronger" when it flows from left to right.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 07:47:54 AM by luxborealis » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2013, 10:49:05 AM »
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...as to why this shot is so much better than one I posted earlier which was totally panned.

Wood4Trees.jpg is more condensed - towards lines in a plane -- and most importantly it's more colourful.

8418768572_4b8c2bc49d_o.jpg has foreground, background and depth -- and most importantly it's grey ;-)


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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2013, 11:08:17 AM »
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In one sense, Isaac, you've hit the nail on the head - the colour in Dave's photograph draws the viewer through the image. The colour in chrisc's photograph (subtle in centre, bottom) draws the viewer out of the natural movement/rhythm of the photograph.
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2013, 11:23:44 AM »
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In another sense, I've hit the nail on the head - colours make pictures pretty.

Oh wait! That's just today's personal preference :-)
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2013, 07:15:48 PM »
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If I might somewhat hijack your thread, I would like a fair assessment as to why this shot is so much better than one I posted earlier which was totally panned. I am not afraid of criticism but some is always better than being passed over completely.

Hi Chris,

I am sorry Chris, but as the maker of the Wood for Trees image, I would obviously find it quite difficult to be objective in comparing my work against yours (or anyone else’s for that matter), without having an inevitable bias towards my own work.

However if I describe what I was trying to achieve with my image, you can then compare this against what you were trying to achieve with your image, to ascertain where any differences in the two images might lay.

With Wood For Trees, my whole aim was to create what I can only describe as a 'full image', where I wanted to totally fill the frame with a density of edge to edge detail, that also contained a subtle and not so readily seen depth of layers - hence the name Wood for trees, as in the old saying of "I can't see the wood for the tress" etc. I didn't want the viewer to be able to fully see what it was they were looking at until it came into focus and they had worked it out, a sort of an 'aha' moment you might say. I might also say that because of this 'aha' effect, that I was trying to give the image a certain ambiguity and (again what I can only describe as) simple complexity - yes I know go figure, it looks simple, but it is complex I think I mean here.

On another and completely different note and nothing to do with Chris's image or comparisons thereof - You know it is difficult for me to write this kind of stuff above without a voice in my head saying to me "eh what  Huh get real you sound like a complete nerd", as my background is definitely not an artistic one. But this really is the kind of mental thought process (yes I know some would call it rubbish/trash) that goes through my head whenever I am out and about with my camera. For me it is not just pointing the camera at something and hoping that it looks right or thinking that I can fix it in post even though I most definitely can, it has got to look right in the camera. If I look through the viewfinder and I am not moved by what I see then I don't fire the shutter, which is an odd thing to do these days isn't it, as I can shoot as many shots as I like because it is free after all. But if I don't see something good, even if everything is set up and ready to fire, then I don't take the shot I move on. And there I go again - eh what  Huh

Thanks again everyone  Smiley

Dave
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Chris Calohan
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2013, 10:37:01 PM »
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Thanks, Dave and everyone else. I do understand why your image is, I guess for lack of a better word, better than mine. I think I was just a bit miffed that there was never any comment to its merit ot lack thereof. I did frame this for exactly the same thing you framed your for, with the same deliberation and intent. I guess what I saw in my eye didn't translate to the paper (screen) so well. I am going back up there in the next few days after the rains subside and will give it another go. I like the shot and the way the light filters through the limbs and moss. Only wish we had the same colours here. Sigh.
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2013, 10:02:43 PM »
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I am with the general consensus on this one -- the colors and the flow capture my imagination.

Just one thought on PP. Would it suffer at all if the some of the greens on the left side were a little desaturated? I have tried to take vaguely similar shots recently and found myself trying to crop out spots of really bright green foliage to blend the rest with more subdued red tones.

Not meant as criticism at all, just a thought I had while looking.
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2013, 09:52:41 AM »
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Hi Chris,

I am sorry Chris, but as the maker of the Wood for Trees image, I would obviously find it quite difficult to be objective in comparing my work against yours (or anyone else’s for that matter), without having an inevitable bias towards my own work.
Dave


Really Dave?

Here in Scotland we usually find the opposite - that photographers are self-effacing about their own work and almost always reckon that someone else's is better (even when it is not, in the view of a third-party). It's all part of the "I ken't his faither" syndrome.
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2013, 02:40:07 PM »
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Really Dave?

Here in Scotland we usually find the opposite - that photographers are self-effacing about their own work and almost always reckon that someone else's is better (even when it is not, in the view of a third-party). It's all part of the "I ken't his faither" syndrome.

Hi Gareth (it is Gareth isn't it?), as you may well be aware, I am merely an incomer to these wonderful Islands and Highlands, so forgive me if I am only slowly coming to terms with some of the phraseology - I kent his faither is a derogatory phrase used to remind those who have achieved success (especially if achieved away from Scotland) that they are no better than anyone else. Burn's simple, defiantly human assertion that 'a man's a man for a' that' is inevitably recycled as the reductive and degrading putdown 'I kent his faither'. The word ultimately derives from the Old Norse kenna to perceive.

A Man's A Man For A' That (Robert Burns) 1795

    Is there for honest Poverty
    That hings his head, an' a' that;
    The coward slave-we pass him by,
    We dare be poor for a' that!
    For a' that, an' a' that.
    Our toils obscure an' a' that,
    The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
    The Man's the gowd for a' that.

    What though on hamely fare we dine,
    Wear hoddin grey, an' a that;
    Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine;
    A Man's a Man for a' that:
    For a' that, and a' that,
    Their tinsel show, an' a' that;
    The honest man, tho' e'er sae poor,
    Is king o' men for a' that.

    Ye see yon birkie, ca'd a lord,
    Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that;
    Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
    He's but a coof for a' that:
    For a' that, an' a' that,
    His ribband, star, an' a' that:
    The man o' independent mind
    He looks an' laughs at a' that.

    A prince can mak a belted knight,
    A marquis, duke, an' a' that;
    But an honest man's abon his might,
    Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
    For a' that, an' a' that,
    Their dignities an' a' that;
    The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth,
    Are higher rank than a' that.

    Then let us pray that come it may,
    (As come it will for a' that,)
    That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
    Shall bear the gree, an' a' that.
    For a' that, an' a' that,
    It's coming yet for a' that,
    That Man to Man, the world o'er,
    Shall brothers be for a' that.

Dave Smiley
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NancyP
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2013, 02:44:44 PM »
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or is it also, he's one of us.
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2013, 02:55:38 PM »
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I am with the general consensus on this one -- the colors and the flow capture my imagination.

Just one thought on PP. Would it suffer at all if the some of the greens on the left side were a little desaturated? I have tried to take vaguely similar shots recently and found myself trying to crop out spots of really bright green foliage to blend the rest with more subdued red tones.

Not meant as criticism at all, just a thought I had while looking.

Believe it or not, the greens up here really are that supersaturated, everyone who comes to us (photographers mainly) comment on how no one will believe how greens the greens really are in their images.

I also shot a second image in the same area of the wood as the one above, but from a different point of view and for which I think mono seems to work better. The fluffy stuff on the branches etc is lichen, which we have a lot of up here and is supposed to denote how good the air quality is.

Dave
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2013, 02:56:46 PM »
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or is it also, he's one of us.

Could be, I hope it does..  Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2013, 03:00:21 PM »
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Chris...

 My thought here is... in your image, I can still see the forest for the trees. There is no hidden world within. I might even go so  far to say that I can see too many trees, and open space.

If you look at the far right side of your image, it begins to have the same feel as Dave's does. It is fuller.

Dave's image is a really nice piece!!
Even tho i "know" what it is, I can get lost in so many layers.
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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2013, 04:39:36 PM »
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I like the vertical with the vertical subject (the OP). I think the other shot would have been a lot better it were just shot vertically. The landscape shot puts too many vertical lines in the space and just looks to "busy" to ME. The vertical shot with fewer lines looks much less busy and more natural.

Thanks Dave for not being put off by the questions on the second shot. Chris, thanks for posting your image. It made me go back through a bunch of my shots of trees and look at what I liked and didn't like. I'm convinced now that when I see a nice tree shot, I'm going to shot it BOTH ways. One is simply going to appeal to me better than the other, and I can't really tell which when I'm freezing my tail off looking at the back of my camera. Again thanks for the attitude with explaining your shot Dave. It was very infomative to me and hopefully to some others..
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