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Author Topic: Help me choosing medium format camera! 20 - 25K  (Read 12259 times)
nataimages
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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2013, 03:32:57 AM »
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Hi Johannes,

Thank you very much for your response. I will try to answer your questions and ask more of mine.

Budget around 20-25K --> you mean $ right?


That's correct.

Then I think you will have to work with used products, or you start with new body+ 1or2 lenses + used digital back

What digital back then you recommend on the budget?
I cant also figure out how much difference I would notice in the type of work I do between hy6 and hy6 mod2. I heard that I would be able to upgrade the camera if I want later on. I saw you have hy6 on special at the moment.

I also cant quite understand the difference between AF and AFD lenses. I would ideally get 3 lenses: 80mm, 50mm, 180mm.


I shoot in temperatures ranging from +50 to -50. --> have you worked under these conditions already? Which camera did you use? Film or digital? because as far as I now working with a digital camera below -40C is kind of heavy. Do you have special housing or "warming therapy" for your camera?


I used video camera in those conditions and I had a lot of problems, so I solved the problem with housing like that: http://www.pronto1.ru/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/185c648d31365a5bcc264cdfff5c41f7.jpg

I would have to look for a solution in photo camera. Not even sure as of yet if it exists.

You plan to come europe? I suggest you visit our factory and do some testings if you have the time to do so.

I do have a limited time as I have to start the shoot on Mach 25 and I would be flying directly to Europe to pick up the camera and straight for the shoot. Which in my situations it makes it quite difficult because I cant find a lot of cameras in Australia to test drive them.

In my opinion, the combination of your requests (shooting outdoor, film&digital, 6x6 & 6x4,5) fits very well to our camera. But as this is a huge investment and a longterm decision you shouldn't take the final advice for your decision from a (biased) manufacturer. Of course I will try to help you and provide you all information needed.

That;s pretty much what I loved about the specs of this camera and wanted to know more about it.

I also have couple of more questions:
1) How sturdy is the camera?
2) Is there a rain jacket for it?
3) How easy is it to handle?

I am planning on investing into more lenses throughout the year and better digital back as the time goes on, its just the initial choice I am struggling with.

Thank you so much.
Natalia
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nataimages
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« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2013, 03:36:55 AM »
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Hi,

Thank you for your response. i am considering this option. Just getting a film camera as a second camera. I appreciate your advice.
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nataimages
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« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2013, 03:38:35 AM »
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The reason why I shoot film is the following: I do a lot of art projects where museums and galleries take my negatives for collection. i cant do this with digital. Thats the main reason.
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nataimages
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« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2013, 03:40:08 AM »
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I am fully aware of it. I just would like to see what the options are. May be I am not aware of options there might be.

In the end of the day it would be my choice what camera I choose to go with.
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yaya
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« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2013, 03:57:01 AM »
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My advice would be to not ask for advice on a forum, especially this one, and go try out stuff for yourself. It's the only way you'll get an unbiased view on what's right for you.

I think it's OK to ask for advice here but also to filter and wade through the responses carefully, which can be hard for a newbie who does not know the posters, their credentials, background and/ or their agendas, if there are any...

Natalia, in Australia you can speak to Craig Robinson at Ted's in Melbourne, he should be able to help you also with trying an Hy6/ AFi body with a Leaf back. His contacts can be found here: http://www.mamiyaleaf.com/fal_australia.asp

If you're in Europe and would like to try one of our products please let me know and I'll arrange that for you. My contact details are in my signature below

Safe travel!

Yair
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nataimages
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« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2013, 04:05:12 AM »
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Thanks Yair. Do you know anyone in Sydney by any chance? It would safe me a flight to Melbourne! Other then that I am prepared to make this flight just to try the camera.

I think it's OK to ask for advice here but also to filter and wade through the responses carefully, which can be hard for a newbie who does not know the posters, their credentials, background and/ or their agendas, if there are any...

Natalia, in Australia you can speak to Craig Robinson at Ted's in Melbourne, he should be able to help you also with trying an Hy6/ AFi body with a Leaf back. His contacts can be found here: http://www.mamiyaleaf.com/fal_australia.asp

If you're in Europe and would like to try one of our products please let me know and I'll arrange that for you. My contact details are in my signature below

Safe travel!

Yair
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yaya
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« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2013, 04:15:20 AM »
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Thanks Yair. Do you know anyone in Sydney by any chance? It would safe me a flight to Melbourne! Other then that I am prepared to make this flight just to try the camera.


Yes I've just sent you a PM with my colleague's contact details

Cheers

yair
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Sareesh Sudhakaran
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« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2013, 04:17:09 AM »
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...When I compare my D800e w/ Leica R lenses to my IQ180/Cambo/Rod_HR the IQ of the Medium format image is higher but when pixel peeping the Nikon pixels are sharper with more DR. With the Nikon you would have access to stabilized lenses too.
Marc

Hi Marc, not to sidetrack the thread, but can you elaborate on which Leica R lenses you use on the D800? Thanks.
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MarkoRepse
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« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2013, 04:47:34 AM »
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I agree with the statement that be careful what you read on forums. Its not a rare occurrence where opinion is misstated as fact. I also suggest doing your own tests. Online ones (while probably true) may or may not be accurate for your application.
To answer your question about the Hy6 mod2 vs the Hy6, the differences are here (scroll down): http://www.dhw-fototechnik.de/en/rolleiflex-slr/rolleiflex-hy6-mod2.html
Both use film and digital and the body is upgradable at DHW.
Plug: I have a Hy6 kit for sale here http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=72772.0
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MrSmith
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« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2013, 05:09:36 AM »
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What about a Pentax 645 set-up? New digital body, s/h film body and a range of lenses that fits both* way cheaper than the Hblad/phase/HY6 options. And doesn't weigh a ton either.

*a Pentax user would need to confirm what lenses work with what body.
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2013, 05:27:20 AM »
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Hi Marc, not to sidetrack the thread, but can you elaborate on which Leica R lenses you use on the D800? Thanks.
I started with 3 zooms 21-35/3.5, 28-90/2.8-4.0, 70-200/4.0 with the 28-90 being outstanding
Then I added several primes 90/2.0 great bokeh, 180/3.4 razor sharp and the 280/4.0 razor sharp
the 3 zooms make a nice landscape set, same coatings, same "look" reasonable size and weight to carry around
Marc

ps Leitax adapters
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Marc McCalmont
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« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2013, 06:21:11 AM »
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- (...) I shoot a lot hand-held
- Very good in low-light

I think these 2 requirements pretty much rule out MFD.
MFD shines at lower ISOs. Too, mirror/shutter shake is more of an issue than with DSLRs (larger mirror/shutter).
On the other hand... if ISO400/ISO800 is okay for you and if you feel fine to shoot at least with a monopod (as a kind of compromise between handheld and tripod shooting) ... then MFD might be a great choice for you.
Of course you should test it and use it extensively before you take it for a long travel (under extreme conditions).
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nataimages
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« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2013, 06:27:44 AM »
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I think these 2 requirements pretty much rule out MFD.
MFD shines at lower ISOs. Too, mirror/shutter shake is more of an issue than with DSLRs (larger mirror/shutter).
On the other hand... if ISO400/ISO800 is okay for you and if you feel fine to shoot at least with a monopod (as a kind of compromise between handheld and tripod shooting) ... then MFD might be a great choice for you.
Of course you should test it and use it extensively before you take it for a long travel (under extreme conditions).

Its a valid point. I might have to test drive this equipment before I make a leap to MF. I shoot a lot on monopod, so it shouldn't be an issue for me.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2013, 08:06:47 AM »
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Hi,

The P645 is weather proof and seems to be very good. Regarding camera electronics it is about on par with other DSLRs.

Miles Hecker (of Wyofoto fame) owns one and is enthusiastic about it, you can contact him at info2@wyofoto.com .

http://wyofoto.com/Pentax_645D/Pentax_645D_review_pt1.html

http://wyofoto.com/Pentax_645D/Pentax_645D_review_pt2.html

Also, check this thread:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=50977.0

Lloyd Chambers (Diglloyd) has tested most of the Pentax 645D lense on his DAP site (subscription only): http://www.diglloyd.com/prem/prot/DAP/Pentax645D/index.html

I perhaps should add that going on the trip of your life with brand new and untested equipment might not be the smartest thing to do. But clearly, you want the best stuff you can afford.

I had a bad day at Craters of the Moon National Monument in Idaho (USA) a couple of months ago. I had a brand new tripod from RRS, the leg joints came loose in two days, the Quick Release on the head also had issues and tripod mount on my lens got stuck. I could repair/fix all that same evening. FSCK can happen you know.

I'm very satisfied with RRS stuff and never had issues with my stuff before. Just to say that things can go bad. There is an advantage to stuff that has seen some use.

Best regards
Erik

What about a Pentax 645 set-up? New digital body, s/h film body and a range of lenses that fits both* way cheaper than the Hblad/phase/HY6 options. And doesn't weigh a ton either.

*a Pentax user would need to confirm what lenses work with what body.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 08:33:59 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

alan_b
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« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2013, 09:14:22 AM »
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With your time frame, cold temperatures, handheld shooting and budget, I'd spend my time getting a robust, redundant D800 system dialed in for this trip.  Not saying MF shouldn't eventually be your choice, but having a system in place and reliable for harsh conditions within a month sounds very stressful.
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Sheldon N
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« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2013, 10:43:37 AM »
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I think the best advice thus far is to take something on your trip that is 1) robust and 2) that you are familiar with.

Getting a brand new camera and heading straight to a shoot in extreme conditions does not sound like a recipe for success. Whatever camera you choose, the most important thing IMHO is that it does not interfere with your image making on the trip.
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2013, 10:52:01 AM »
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Naturally I am biased, but a Pentax 645D with a Pentax 645NII as the film body. Lenses work on both and having two complete cameras is a good backup. Both cameras have AF and naturally MF. The 645D is like a modern DSLR and has many nice features--multiple exposure, intervalometer, unlimited bulb, multi-point AF, interchangeable viewfinder screens, Auto ISO (and good ISO up to 1600), mirror lockup. IR remote, etc.

The cold weather performance on the 645D is very good--I have gone 6+ hours at subfreezing temperatures on one battery. The 645D body is weatherproof. Batteries are cheap and easily available. There are plenty of lenses.

Printing large is no problem--I print from a 44" large-format printer with the 44" on the short side.

The mirror is well dampened and I shoot with the 645D handheld all the time.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 10:53:55 AM by theguywitha645d » Logged
gerald.d
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« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2013, 11:26:45 AM »
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OK, I'm going to throw a complete curve ball into the mix...

You say you've been waiting a long time for this, so make it special.

- I mostly do photojournalistic and art work.
Check.
- I shoot in temperatures ranging from +50 to -50.
Check.
- I am planning on using this camera in Artic circle in about 1.5 month.
Check.
- Mostly use the camera outdoors.
Check.
- Shoot film for long art projects.
Most definitely, check.

- Film and Digital back.
Yup.
- Interchangable lenses. I would love to invest in lenses I could keep for a longer time.
Yup.
- Lenses that communicate with a camera. AF would be nice but will look into MF.
Nope.
- Easy to use.
Yup.
- Weight does matter for me because I hike for very long time.
Absolutely.
- Built-in light meter would be nice as I shoot a lot hand-held.
Nope. But I'd argue you don't need one with practice and experience.
- Very good in low-light
MF digital will NOT satisfy you here. If "very good in low-light" is critical digitally, then walk away from MF and don't look back. BUT, that's where you can take advantage of shooting high ISO film.
- 6x6 film back would be nice but if the camera is right I could go with 6x4.5
Why stop there? How about 6x9?

In your shoes, I'd be seriously considering an ALPA 12TC with the 6x9 back. You should be able to pick that up, with a couple of lenses and necessary accessories for around $12-13K, leaving you just over $10K left which should get you a decent second hand back from a dealer.

Your shooting experience will be totally different to any of the other options being suggested here, and I really do believe it's worth considering.

Regards,

Gerald.
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2013, 11:32:24 AM »
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MF digital will NOT satisfy you here. If "very good in low-light" is critical digitally, then walk away from MF and don't look back. BUT, that's where you can take advantage of shooting high ISO film.

My Pentax 645D does better than any high ISO film in low light. No question about that. While it is limited to ISO 1600, it is doing just as well at 1600 as a 35mm DSLR.

Although, I agree a tech camera is an interesting choice.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2013, 11:34:18 AM »
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I agree with the proposal to consider a small tech camera.

In addition to the Alpa mentioned the Arca Factum and Cambo RC400. All three are high quality compact, precise lightweight, have varying film compatibility, advantages and disadvantages. They will survive virtually any weather (no electronic components, and a P1 back will hold up in the cold just fine).

Quality, compact, fun to shoot (obviously very subjective), unique.

Also, hand holding a tech camera allows slower-than-expected shutter speeds with sharp results; it has no mirror and uses a leaf shutter.

I can't tell you if it will work for your shooting style and needs - nobody can. But I can tell you it's definitely worth your consideration given your criterium.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 12:00:57 PM by Doug Peterson » Logged

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