Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Canon 24mm T/S probably the best wide angle ever made.....  (Read 3630 times)
Peter Devos
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 465


« on: February 15, 2013, 06:21:01 AM »
ReplyReply

... for an affordable price. As i own a Hartbleicam but mostly shoot it in studio with ancient lenses, i never really got out there and test the 24mm for real. Last week i was in Brussels with the local Hartblei representative and we went out for a shoot on top of a large building. I had my 24mm TS and he provided his Imacon 132c. This is what we shot at F11 and 8mm shifted down. Image was opened in Flexcolor, no DAC was possible. Than saved and reopened in Photoshop and NO CA- corrections of any sort, nor other than opening the shadows in the panoramashot were done. In the shot with the sun shining inside the room, NO correction of any kind was done. Try that with any Mamiya or other lenses :-)
There are much better lenses for sale, but not at 1800 euro ex TVA. Combined with probably the most versitile MF body available, the Hartbleicam, one gets a very powefull tool for architecture. Next week we go back to test the 17mm TS lens.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 06:46:53 AM by Peter Devos » Logged
Peter Devos
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 465


« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2013, 06:22:51 AM »
ReplyReply

The window image  Grin
Logged
JoeKitchen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 728



« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2013, 07:25:13 AM »
ReplyReply

For the value, yes I would say it is a great lens. The best ever, have to disagree here.  Don't get me wrong, it does me very well right now, but one of the reasons I will upgrading to MF is due to this lens.  First, it's a heavy retro focal lens designed around a mirror box and is not as sharp as the comparable Schneider (which is more than twice the price of course).  Also, there is a mild blue/green fringe on the edges of the wall and metal around the window, also a product of the retro design.  This drives me insane when I am processing my images.  Yes, it is a more common problem when something is back lit, but when shooting interiors their is always something back lit.  
Logged

Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
"Try not to be just better than your rivals and contemporaries, try to be better than yourself."  William Faulkner
Doug Peterson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2838


WWW
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2013, 07:53:30 AM »
ReplyReply

Have you had the chance to use a Schneider 28XL, or Rodenstock 23HR, 28HR, or 32HR?

Everything is relative.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 07:55:25 AM by Doug Peterson » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
Peter Devos
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 465


« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2013, 08:17:17 AM »
ReplyReply

Have you had the chance to use a Schneider 28XL, or Rodenstock 23HR, 28HR, or 32HR?

Everything is relative.

But at what price....
Canon 24mm T/S probably the best wide angle ever made... for an affordable price.
Logged
Peter Devos
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 465


« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 08:23:51 AM »
ReplyReply

For the value, yes I would say it is a great lens. The best ever, have to disagree here.  Don't get me wrong, it does me very well right now, but one of the reasons I will upgrading to MF is due to this lens.  First, it's a heavy retro focal lens designed around a mirror box and is not as sharp as the comparable Schneider (which is more than twice the price of course).  Also, there is a mild blue/green fringe on the edges of the wall and metal around the window, also a product of the retro design.  This drives me insane when I am processing my images.  Yes, it is a more common problem when something is back lit, but when shooting interiors their is always something back lit.  

Hi Joe, I shot similar things with Nikon 14/24, Mamiya 28mm( worst of all, useless lens) and many other lenses. Of all these lenses, none of them performed as the 24mm TS on medium format.
Yes, the HR lenses are better, but they cost as much as the canon lens with Hartbleicam... and they are much more limited in use. The Hartblei simply is such a versatile camera in studio and on location. When it is about making a living in photography, sometimes a compromise is a good thing. :-)
Logged
Doug Peterson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2838


WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2013, 08:24:09 AM »
ReplyReply

O, ok. I didn't initially understand the [...] of your title led into the [...] in the body of your post.

You're saying is the 24TS is a darn good lens and is a great value for the money; I agree 100%.

It's not, IMO, in the same league as the Schneider and Rodenstock wide angles, but if you're on a limited budget it's a darn good lens.
Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
pixjohn
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 672


« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2013, 06:25:08 PM »
ReplyReply

Sounds more like a troll, why  post this in Medium Format forum! The picture sample, look like snap shots, shoot a real job and get back to me. The 24xl lens I shoot with blows those pictures away.
Logged
FredBGG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1651


« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2013, 07:21:42 PM »
ReplyReply

Sounds more like a troll, why  post this in Medium Format forum! The picture sample, look like snap shots, shoot a real job and get back to me. The 24xl lens I shoot with blows those pictures away.

He clearly states that is is a test shot... most importantly with no CA applied. It's in the medium format section because he shot it with a MF camera body and back... duh...

He is right that it is an exceptional lens whatever your budget.

I compared the Canon TS 24 to the Nikon TS 24 and the Canon is significantly better. This is particularly interesting if
one looks at this comparisson:

http://www.circleofconfusion.ie/d800e-vs-phase-one-iq180/

The nikon with the 24mm TS did well against the IQ180...

Quote
At 3020 inches, you can see subtle but clear differences between the IQ180 and the D800E.
Not all of them weighted in favour of the medium format camera, though.
For instance, the D800E produced much more pleasing shadow areas on the prints of the photographs produced to test dynamic range.

The Canon 24mm being significantly better than the Nikon 24mm ... I wonder how this comparison would have gone with the Canon TS on the Nikon D800.

Canon has made some significant progress recently with some of it's newer lenses. They are also using some manufacturing techniques that go beyond the grinding used by other
manufacturers.

If it was not an exceptional lens Alpa would not have done this:





I think it's safe to say that Alpa knows what they are doing...
Logged
gerald.d
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 388


« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2013, 09:53:38 PM »
ReplyReply

There is absolutely no question that, for the money, the 24TSE-II is a fantastic lens, and performs astonishingly well on MF considering it was never designed for it.

For those who haven't seen these before, here are some test shots I did a while ago at various apertures and with 0mm and 5mm rise on an IQ180/HCam.

http://08.ae/panos/HCam/24mmTSE/24TSE.html

A couple of people suggested I should have gone to f/16 on those for even better results.

Here's a more recent comparison against the 23HR.

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/487229-post36.html

Again, people suggested I wasn't getting the most out of the TSE. I'll see if I can find time this afternoon to redo something similar to the original test including f/16.

Regards,

Gerald.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 09:56:00 PM by gerald.d » Logged
gerald.d
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 388


« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2013, 10:13:24 PM »
ReplyReply

...
The Canon 24mm being significantly better than the Nikon 24mm ... I wonder how this comparison would have gone with the Canon TS on the Nikon D800.
...


Sadly can't be done, since you can't mount EF lenses on Nikon.

However, with the advent of the HCam and ALPA FPS, at least we can do a lens comparison on the IQ180 Smiley
Logged
gerald.d
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 388


« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2013, 11:52:09 PM »
ReplyReply

OK, just got back from doing another test, comparing the two at f/8, f/11 and f/16.

A quick peak provides some very interesting results, but my preliminary observations are...

Both at f/16 - TSE wins.
Both at f/8 - HR wins.

HR at f/8, TSE at f/16 - HR wins, but it's very, very close.

/edit

Thread here.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 01:12:52 AM by gerald.d » Logged
Peter Devos
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 465


« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2013, 01:49:24 AM »
ReplyReply

Sounds more like a troll, why  post this in Medium Format forum! The picture sample, look like snap shots, shoot a real job and get back to me. The 24xl lens I shoot with blows those pictures away.

No troll, just someone that is using a Hartbleicam and came to the conclusion that for the kind a money you pay for it, it is a darn good investement. Sure, an IQ180 will blow away an Ixpress 132c and it is no more than logical that a 6400 euro lens performs way better than a 1800 euro lens. But if you are a working pro, at the end of the day all that counts is the how much money you have in the pocket. For many clients that want super wide angle, perspective corrected and for use up to A3 ( wich is max for most printing in magazines) this combo perfectly fits. On the plus side, you have a real viewfinder with groundglass and you can fit almost all lenses ever made on it. I really like the old Biotar design lenses for example  Wink
Logged
gerald.d
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 388


« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2013, 02:13:27 AM »
ReplyReply

No troll, just someone that is using a Hartbleicam and came to the conclusion that for the kind a money you pay for it, it is a darn good investement. Sure, an IQ180 will blow away an Ixpress 132c and it is no more than logical that a 6400 euro lens performs way better than a 1800 euro lens. But if you are a working pro, at the end of the day all that counts is the how much money you have in the pocket. For many clients that want super wide angle, perspective corrected and for use up to A3 ( wich is max for most printing in magazines) this combo perfectly fits. On the plus side, you have a real viewfinder with groundglass and you can fit almost all lenses ever made on it. I really like the old Biotar design lenses for example  Wink


Peter - see the thread I've just posted comparing the 23HR to the 24TSE. I think you might find the results rather interesting...
Logged
Peter Devos
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 465


« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2013, 02:25:35 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi Gerald, i have seen them. Great test! My point was only that for 7500 euro, one can have a great wide angle solution and a super versatile studio camera. The 24TSE on a digiback still is much better than anything on a D800 :-)   (just to start some action in this tread  Grin  )
We are also planning to come to Dubai. Do you have some good info, maybe per PM?
Peter.
Logged
KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1679



WWW
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2013, 06:53:50 AM »
ReplyReply

I'm not a believer, but every night I get down on my hands and knees and pray to the gods that Canon will announce a body that takes full advantage of the 17mm TS-E.
Logged

Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12213


« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2013, 07:49:47 AM »
ReplyReply

I'm not a believer, but every night I get down on my hands and knees and pray to the gods that Canon will announce a body that takes full advantage of the 17mm TS-E.


Keith, isn't there an answer in one of those 'pancake' cameras that used to be popular: Silvestri and also the Corfield? They'd offer a full image circle every time, I think, and then you'd just have to use the parts of it you want.

I'm sure there would be suitable digital backs that would fit what was originally designed for film.

Rob C

Logged

KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1679



WWW
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2013, 07:58:39 AM »
ReplyReply

Keith, isn't there an answer in one of those 'pancake' cameras that used to be popular: Silvestri and also the Corfield? They'd offer a full image circle every time, I think, and then you'd just have to use the parts of it you want.

I'm sure there would be suitable digital backs that would fit what was originally designed for film.

Rob, if one wants to go the tech camera/Canon TS-E route there are several answers out there - Hartblei, Alpa etc - but it's not the route I plan to take.

I'm looking for a DSLR solution. The problem is even if Nikon introduced a 17mm T/S I doubt it would be an equal to the Canon. They'd need to redesign their lens mount.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 08:06:15 AM by KLaban » Logged

Stefan.Steib
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 420



WWW
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2013, 11:17:08 AM »
ReplyReply

Its not only the lens mount (which at a significantly larger inner diameter offers more shift with less vignetting).
Its mostly the pressed aspheric lenses that Canon does, as much as I know they have an advantage of some years ! over the competition,
this allows them to produce very stable, very equal lenses that can be mounted with machines, limiting variations even further and
as a sideeffect make the lenses cheaper too.
the downside of this is probably it only works for a significant number of lenses, to set up the full process may be tricky and
thus they did not yet replace the 45 and 90mm.
Im sure sooner or later they will. Right now we can supply our Zeiss lenses to fill in that gap, but imagine what will happen
if Canon does the same quality for half the price at 1700-2000 a lens !

As soon as Canon will launch their high res body it will happen, they have to support this new bodies with lenses.

The beauty of our HCam Concept is about offering larger format using the resources of the 35mm R&D departments of Canon, Nikon and Zeiss and others who
are now heavily investing into that 35mm segment. I believe this can help MF backs to be useful for a much longer time.

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 12:04:31 PM by Stefan.Steib » Logged

Because Photography is more than Technology and "as we have done this all the time"
www.hartblei.de     www.hcam.de    www.spectralize.com
FredBGG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1651


« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2013, 02:22:40 PM »
ReplyReply

I'm looking for a DSLR solution. The problem is even if Nikon introduced a 17mm T/S I doubt it would be an equal to the Canon. They'd need to redesign their lens mount.

Not if the lens could be a slower lens. f 5.6 for example. No real need for faster lenses as live view could be used for critical focusing.

I would not under estimate Nikon ability to upgrade their lenses.
With their mainstream  $ 3,000 and $2,000 bodies being 36 and 24 MP they will have more demand for newer improved lenses, especially for the
D800E. The improvements they made on the 70-200mm 2.8 and the 85mm 1.4 models is indicative of what they can do.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad