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Author Topic: C1 Pro 7 - cannot see folder tree - import messes up my shoot - trash problem  (Read 3679 times)
The View
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« on: February 15, 2013, 11:10:14 PM »
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I tried to use Capture One Pro 7 for organizing my images.

It looks like this is not possible with the poor state the catalog and file system is.

1. The folders pane does not show all folders.

It shows "MacIntosh HD" as the top folder, and the actual folders with the images, but it omits all midlevel foldes. E.g. top level: Macintosh HD - omits: pictures - omits Canon5d2 RAW - shows actual image folders in an unsorted mess.

It's impossible to create new image folders this way, as they have to be created in a mid-level folder - which doesn't show.

2. Importing creates a mess:

I checked "create subfolder using date" - I meant the date of the image.

C1 Pro means the date of the import (who cares about the import date?) and puts all images from four shoots into one folder, with one image count from _001 to _179 going through all four (small landscape) shoots.

What I'd need is:

1. see the complete folder structure on my computer (as you could do with older versions of C1 Pro)

2. at import, create subfolders by SHOOT date, not import date.

TRASH PROBLEM.

Because it was such a mess, I deleted the whole folder with 5, 5 Gb.

I did this in the folder section - it only removed it from the catalog - the images were still there on the hard drive. I had to go into my Mac's file system and delete it a second time.



It looks like the image organization is of Capture One Pro 7 is a total mess.

What options do I have?

I could import with Canon's DPP, which does all the right things.

And then import those images using Capture One Pro 7's "import from disc" menu (where it doesn't get a chance to mess up my shoots).

But you're basically doing everything twice.



I love C1 Pro 7 for its image quality - if only they dropped the half-baked image organization and went back to a simple file structure.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 11:30:36 PM by The View » Logged

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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 12:12:08 AM »
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Quick answers...

Right click on Macintosh HD and choose 'Show Folders Hierarchy'.  You can see what you wish for then.

Remember with the filters tool under 'Date' you can always filter by year-month-day and transform that into an Album - as a suggestion.

We don't use the term deleting.  Under the file Menu it is "Remove From Catalog", which is exactly what it does.

However we could add a dialogue that says "Do you wish to remove and delete the files on disk".

David

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David Grover
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The View
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 02:20:56 AM »
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I appreciate the tip with the right click.

But why so complicated? Why doesn't C1 just show the folder hierarchy by default?

To "delete" is quite important a term and must be used. There is no reason to remove an image from the catalogue and keep it on disc (where it takes up space). Removing an image from the catalogue means it can't be found, so why should it exist? It would just be dead space on the hard drive. "Remove from catalogue" is the term you should stop using, and put "delete" in its place, because this is what photographers do.

What about the impractical import dialogue? There could be an upgrade that removes the term "import date" - because it's an equally useless one. Nobody cares when an image was imported, but everybody cares when it was shot - that's what attaches it to a project.

I like the image quality of C1 Pro 7. It's the best of all RAW converters.

At the same time, the DAM features of C1 Pro are probably one of the worst of its class, more hurdle than help. Give photographers a choice to opt out of it by using the folder tree as primary navigation tool without any right-clicking - until the C1 DAM features are developed enough to be working for, and not against the photographer.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 02:34:59 AM by The View » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2013, 04:36:41 AM »
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So here we have another one of those comments that complain about the usability of the file structure of C1. They've been around for a long time and they've gotten worse with each new version of C1. I remember Michael Reichmann well when he was explained the concept of sessions on his video tutorial for C1: Big question marks across his face and you could tell he couldn't make sense of what he was told. Neither could I. That was back when version 5 was out. Sessions are still around but Capture One added the even newer concept of catalogues which is promoted as the new standard file system in C1 now. And in my opinion is as useless as the one before and certainly leads to more confusion. The company obviously wants us to adopt a way of handling our files in a way they think is best for us, but - while they may work in certain situations - is totally counterintuitive for most of us users. Reminds me a bit of Microsoft....
I wish C1 would climb one step down the ladder and react to the needs so many people expressed in this forum.
Wouldn't it be great to handle our files in a way that is on a par with the undeniably superb quality of their image processing.
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jeanvalentin
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2013, 04:33:41 PM »
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.....
To "delete" is quite important a term and must be used. There is no reason to remove an image from the catalogue and keep it on disc (where it takes up space). Removing an image from the catalogue means it can't be found, so why should it exist? It would just be dead space on the hard drive. "Remove from catalogue" is the term you should stop using, and put "delete" in its place, because this is what photographers do.....


While I agree that C1 is the most unintuitive and at times has the most convoluted way of doing things, I don't agree with your above statement. It all depends on how you use catalogs.

For example, I have a catalog for portraits and then I import different portrait sessions. When I'm done editing, I just remove them from the catalog (it doesn't make sense to bloat the catalog and affect performance for stuff that I don't need later on). If it would be implemented the way you suggest, it would delete the files from my HD which is not what I want.

I think they should implement something which ask you what you want: remove them from catalog or delete them from disk.

p.s. I wonder when Phase will finally realize that (MANY) photographers DON'T like they way C1 does things (in terms of user interface/usability/workflow) and listen to the complains/suggestion and implement them instead of keep saying that people like the way things work.
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Valentin
David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2013, 06:36:13 PM »
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I appreciate the tip with the right click.

But why so complicated? Why doesn't C1 just show the folder hierarchy by default?

To "delete" is quite important a term and must be used. There is no reason to remove an image from the catalogue and keep it on disc (where it takes up space). Removing an image from the catalogue means it can't be found, so why should it exist? It would just be dead space on the hard drive. "Remove from catalogue" is the term you should stop using, and put "delete" in its place, because this is what photographers do.

What about the impractical import dialogue? There could be an upgrade that removes the term "import date" - because it's an equally useless one. Nobody cares when an image was imported, but everybody cares when it was shot - that's what attaches it to a project.

I like the image quality of C1 Pro 7. It's the best of all RAW converters.

At the same time, the DAM features of C1 Pro are probably one of the worst of its class, more hurdle than help. Give photographers a choice to opt out of it by using the folder tree as primary navigation tool without any right-clicking - until the C1 DAM features are developed enough to be working for, and not against the photographer.

Catalog Delete

The delete term should not be used as a primary option.

Yes, removing an image means it can't be found in the catalog, but not true of the system finder or other applications?

There could be plenty of reasons to remove an image from the Catalog and leaving it on disk.  What if you had imported an image to the catalog in error? 

If you don't have the option to do this, then you are inextricably linking the image to the catalog forever.

This is very dangerous and a very big no no.

I agree a secondary option to delete could be useful.

Lightroom, for example, does also not delete by default.

Importing

Import by date is indeed useful for some of our users and was a common request when the user base was surveyed.  As I said in my earlier post, the Date section in the filters tool gives a one click access to Year/Month/Day.

However, I agree an autosplit function in the importer would be nice.

Sessions

Sessions remain in Capture One Pro 7 as they are an extremely popular method of file management in our user base.  Watch this video...

http://youtu.be/_FcfE67Ln_4

...and you will understand Sessions in under 4 minutes.

File Browsing

If you want to browse system folders, you can do so in ANY session, effectively using Capture One as a browser.

If you want a pure file browsing application, then you will have to accept a hit in performance in terms of showing previews, moving from image to image quickly.

Note from dpreviews recent Raw converter comparison, where it discusses this in relation to DXO...

In DxO Optics Pro 8, you don't have to go through an import process before working with an image, but you do have wait for a preview to be generated when you select an image. I've found this to take anywhere from three to six seconds depending on the magnification view and the image's pixel count.

So, yes, you avoid an import process but accept a performance hit in browsing.  Of course, I accept this maybe preferable to you.

DAM Features

I disagree we have weak DAM features.

- Ability to share catalogs amongst multiple users
- Ability to adjust images even if the raw file isn't available
- Option to store images inside the catalog (Like Aperture and iPhoto) and outside of the Catalog (Like Lightroom)
- Powerful organisational tools with Projects, Albums and Groups.
- One click search and filtering possible with Date, rating, color tag, keywords, camera meta data.... more...
- Work with more than one catalog simultaneously (Lightroom for example has to be relaunched to work with a different catalog)
- Work with Catalogs and Sessions simultaneously


I apologise for my abruptness but I believe I have to correct for what is, in my opinion, misinformation.

Best Regards,




David

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David Grover
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2013, 10:35:50 PM »
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So here we have another one of those comments that complain about the usability of the file structure of C1. They've been around for a long time and they've gotten worse with each new version of C1. I remember Michael Reichmann well when he was explained the concept of sessions on his video tutorial for C1: Big question marks across his face and you could tell he couldn't make sense of what he was told. Neither could I. That was back when version 5 was out. Sessions are still around but Capture One added the even newer concept of catalogues which is promoted as the new standard file system in C1 now. And in my opinion is as useless as the one before and certainly leads to more confusion. The company obviously wants us to adopt a way of handling our files in a way they think is best for us, but - while they may work in certain situations - is totally counterintuitive for most of us users. Reminds me a bit of Microsoft....
I wish C1 would climb one step down the ladder and react to the needs so many people expressed in this forum.
Wouldn't it be great to handle our files in a way that is on a par with the undeniably superb quality of their image processing.

When you read the statements by Phase One, it's the customer who is "misinformed" - a deplorable arrogance that severely limits Phase One's approach to a wider market.

Would Phase One customer service be more on their toes, they would say: well, we get a lot of complaints about the image organization. Looks like we have a problem here. Let's do something about it to make our great software even greater.

Could you imagine that one of your clients has a problem during a shoot, and you wouldn't address the problem, but instead educate the client to cure him from his "misinformation"?

As far as I'm concerned, I'll reinstall DPP for importing (because it does exactly what I want from importing). Then I'll import the photos from disc into the C1 Pro catalogue. One more step, but at least I'll have the images where I want them (and hopefully the catalog won't crash).

Only when you import the same day of the shoot (and only if you have only one shoot on that day) you can use C1 Pro for the import. Then it's actually quite good, as you can, in one take, import, name the folder, and name the images using the "job name" or the other tags (the renaming in DPP is an additional step).

So, the task at hand for Phase One is to bring the image organization up to speed.

PS: I had a misnamed folder that started with a period and tried to change the name in the folder tree - renaming was grayed out, I could not rename it. It had to rename it outside the catalog, and this broke the catalog, and I had to delete it.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 02:51:59 AM by The View » Logged

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ario
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 01:17:40 AM »
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@David
"I agree a secondary option to delete could be useful."


If I am not wrong such option already exists, using the trash icon you can choose either to just remove from catalog or to delete the original moving the file to the system trash.
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2013, 06:44:41 AM »
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When you read the statements by Phase One, it's the customer who is "misinformed" - a deplorable arrogance that severely limits Phase One's approach to a wider market.

Would Phase One customer service be more on their toes, they would say: well, we get a lot of complaints about the image organization. Looks like we have a problem here. Let's do something about it to make our great software even greater.

Could you imagine that one of your clients has a problem during a shoot, and you wouldn't address the problem, but instead educate the client to cure him from his "misinformation"?

As far as I'm concerned, I'll reinstall DPP for importing (because it does exactly what I want from importing). Then I'll import the photos from disc into the C1 Pro catalogue. One more step, but at least I'll have the images where I want them (and hopefully the catalog won't crash).

Only when you import the same day of the shoot (and only if you have only one shoot on that day) you can use C1 Pro for the import. Then it's actually quite good, as you can, in one take, import, name the folder, and name the images using the "job name" or the other tags (the renaming in DPP is an additional step).

So, the task at hand for Phase One is to bring the image organization up to speed.

PS: I had a misnamed folder that started with a period and tried to change the name in the folder tree - renaming was grayed out, I could not rename it. It had to rename it outside the catalog, and this broke the catalog, and I had to delete it.


To reiterate what I said....

I believe it was misinformation to say that we were doing something incorrect by not automatically deleting the system files.

To add to the 'delete' debate.

In the Folders area, this is effectively where you are managing what the catalog is referencing to.

I believe the dialog messages we display are pretty clear.

For example, removing an entire folder in the Folders area...

(Screenshot 1)

Deleting an image stored outside the catalog.

(Screenshot 2)

Again, extremely similar to what Lightroom is doing as well.

I hope you now understand why that we cannot automatically delete folders that are removed from the Folders area.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 07:00:18 AM by David Grover / Phase One » Logged

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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2013, 11:45:52 PM »
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I would ditto JeanValentin regarding the remove /delete.  IT is important to just have remove from the catalog, and then have the option of deleting actual file from hard drive (Yes the optin to delete from disk is an obvious need).
I also agree with TheView's frustrations of C1. I have went on about it for years now.  

I can't help but conclude that C1 is designed foundationally from a programmers perspective to fit a photographer, and sadly not the other way around. It is like learning an entirely new Operating System, as it goes against what all users of an OS have learned.  

There are many, or I could say majority who find this same view. but their take on the matter is that we want to train the user to learn our software so when a big shot photographer with large agency budget comes we can make sure they have a trained Digital Tech to handle C1 with a full cart rental ... And that is their target market.

Basically C1 dictating and forcing to create an unnecessary market to form exclusivity. what a sham/shame.  Does it process images well?  I think the best for certain needs, depending on what you shoot.
Most subjects I am happy to avoid C1, and some subjects that I light with full control, I use C1 by force as there is no capture choice for Phase One digitalbacks.  I am happy enough with the process to not change it yet.
They have put so much energy in this direction that I don't see it changing. Unless they want to expand( with today's climate in photo budgets, they might have to), they look happy with this approach.

Sadly, I have this point of view as I, like many here who express their frustrations are simply heard by walls, as there has been NO shift to try and make C1 user friendly visually or logically(based on OS standards).  They have the reputation of the best Raw processor. That maybe well deserved, and they use that trump card to get newbie users to enroll into C1 (literally). It makes then experts/tools in using a piece of software. (I been there, so don't get on my case).  Since the transition 3.7x, it has been a let down in the core of the programs functionality. Otherwise it does great things. Other Raw converters also do great things with familiar ease and visual logic.

It is sad how one has to work in v7(yes you can try to ignore catalog). They had Media Pro to show all that to everyone.... "Hey!..... You should use a different software for cataloging files and processing them!". This would be a leader in the industry. I so much agreed, and now with 7, they dumped that idea and went the LR method. I think this was another mistake. They had the opportunity to think for them selves and logically...Why have a processing app do the job of a sorting app? (lets not debate over this:Maybe in the other DAM catagory)  
These tasks are very different, lets let each be the best individually...Nope..they jumped on the LR approach. and here we are with LR being a much better DAM/catalog app than C1, and much more a user friendly processor than C1. Now with lots of large files (anything over 24pxl), and having 1 app do both jobs for 30" screens....you got issues!!  Lr is marginally handling things well thanks to a cache file system.  C1 has major issues loading files, and folders it is something I avoid.  The average pro photographer likely has both LR and C1, (why would you be so close minded not to want to know how other apps do). So the LR Cataloging being better, and was with the app since the release...it already gained momentum and with ease of use, who wants another cataloging confusion on their hands from abnother Raw processor?! They lost that end of gaining loyalty.

I have spoke/posted with Dave and Peter about these things, and they are amazing guys. They should be proud of the company they work for on many accounts, but this is a major issue that will get overlooked because of PhaseOne DB sales and the ever decreasing size of large production shooting.....well, I am looking at it from the US perspective...perhaps they can care less as many major imagery production houses go overseas.  Ok I ranted enough...once again! :-)

As for "The View", I feel for you...try using C1 only as a Session (another pain with folders, but maybe less than cataloging).  And if you don't have LightRoom, get a dedicated DAM(not Media Pro as it has core issues with TIF and PSD, and they are likely ditching it).  Try PhotoMechanic, IDIMager or ACDSee. I use ACDSee, and do love it.  It is Viewer/Explorer with all the photographers needs included. Lots of "Export" options. Watermark, print, even catalog.  I think C1 would make a great move to have a version of C1 called pro Lite. this would be a simple version of  most tools in C17 without Sessions or Catalog. I would pay for that even if I have a C1 pro 10 user license!  Updated tools with 3.7x usability. Good luck.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 01:05:46 AM by Phil Indeblanc » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2013, 09:53:36 AM »
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Phil,

I get it I get it!  Smiley

I realise you have a difficulty with the interface but you also have to accept aspects like Sessions are extremely popular with a great deal of our user base.

I do hear you and we will all try our hardest to make Capture One even better than it already is.

David

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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2013, 07:33:50 PM »
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Phil expresses the frustrations that a photographer meets when Capture One Pro 7 tries to force-feed him (and all photographers) an impractical workflow.

What Phase One has to learn is that they have to respect their clients wishes.

But it acts like a communist government which knows what's best for its citizens.

No, David, Phil does not have a "difficulty" with the the interface. He dislikes it and wants it gone the way it is now.

We all need more options and a software that works with our workflow, not hinders it.

It's perfectly OK if C1 offers catalogs, sessions... as long as one can ignore it.

But currently you can't.

If you don't like the catalog and if you don't like sessions, C1 Pro cannot be used to process RAW images.

Just now I need to reprocess some older files.

But I can't. C1 can't see those files.

I tried "add folder" from the folder menu - which does not work.

I would first have to import a huge folder with RAW files (which will take at least 4 hours - and last time I C1 crashed and corrupted the catalog. So I won't know if I can actually get some work done four hours from now).

My suggestion: keep Media Pro 1 as the cataloguing software, C1 Pro for processing.

This way, if any catalog problems would show up you can always bypass the catalog. Just like you'd like to be able to open an airplane door by hand when there's a power failure (and fire in the cabin).

For now, you let C1 users burn.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 07:44:09 PM by The View » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2013, 03:07:43 AM »
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Phil expresses the frustrations that a photographer meets when Capture One Pro 7 tries to force-feed him (and all photographers) an impractical workflow.

What Phase One has to learn is that they have to respect their clients wishes.

But it acts like a communist government which knows what's best for its citizens.

No, David, Phil does not have a "difficulty" with the the interface. He dislikes it and wants it gone the way it is now.

We all need more options and a software that works with our workflow, not hinders it.

It's perfectly OK if C1 offers catalogs, sessions... as long as one can ignore it.

But currently you can't.

If you don't like the catalog and if you don't like sessions, C1 Pro cannot be used to process RAW images.

Just now I need to reprocess some older files.

But I can't. C1 can't see those files.

I tried "add folder" from the folder menu - which does not work.

I would first have to import a huge folder with RAW files (which will take at least 4 hours - and last time I C1 crashed and corrupted the catalog. So I won't know if I can actually get some work done four hours from now).

My suggestion: keep Media Pro 1 as the cataloguing software, C1 Pro for processing.

This way, if any catalog problems would show up you can always bypass the catalog. Just like you'd like to be able to open an airplane door by hand when there's a power failure (and fire in the cabin).

For now, you let C1 users burn.

'All Photographers'?

Thats a pretty strong claim and not factually correct.  We have many users who like the way Capture One runs and the workflow.  I also accept that some, like yourself, do not like the workflow.

And, as I stated earlier we all want to broaden the appeal of the software.

Secondly, have you reached out to us through the proper channels for help?

- Have you raised a support ticket at http://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMain.aspx
- Have you watched any of the instructional videos on our YouTube channel?  Maybe it would help you to see the advantages of working with a Catalog or Session?

Alternatively, as I have stated on this forum before and also Doug many a time, you can simply browse the  system in ANY session.  So just create a Session anywhere, any place and browse your system to the files of your choice.

Did you need to import all 9600 photos you mention on another thread?  Did you have to reprocess all of those?  If it was only a selection, why not import just those into a Catalog or Session?

You are correct, adding Folder from the folder menu is not the right way to do things.  Import first (just the images you need) then work on them.  This is why I feel it is worth watching some of the videos to get a handle on the workflow and ultimately save yourself time and frustration.
 

David
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2013, 04:54:34 AM »
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Yes, I watched the videos several times.

Yes, I had a support ticket open with Phase One and even sent you a crash report.

Nothing came out of this. There wasn't even a suggestion what I could do to avoid the crash.

And now, after updating to 7.1, I tried again, and the crash was of the same kind, which was very likely an issue how C1 Pro counts images.



The repeating crash has to do because the imported files had been processed with an older version of C1.

Before the import, C1 7 counted the images INCLUDING the versions, and came to 9600.

But, at import, it only counted the RAW files (without the versions) - suddenly were 500 images less. So, at 9200 images imported C1 said "all images are imported", but the counter still wanted 500 more imported, which were not there. And it crashed.


Instead of working on my images, I spent hours looking at folders to see which images had not been imported (I found only three in the last folder),and this is how I found out about the difference of counts.



Which doesn't exactly help, as the catalog is damaged.


Do you really think you can "broaden" your user base by sending out this beta software that doesn't work properly?

A "broad user base" already has a perfectly working software with a powerful non-crashing catalog in Adobe Lightroom.

Your user base are those who like the processing quality of C1, its colors, its great detail. (or would you dumb down your Phase One cameras to a Holga level in order to get a "broader user base"?)

And you had to mess up Capture One with this awful catalog and session system (instead of leaving this to your Media 1 Pro application).

Thanks to this Capture One Pro 7 is just one, big headache!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 05:20:54 AM by The View » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2013, 08:33:56 AM »
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Yes, I watched the videos several times.

Yes, I had a support ticket open with Phase One and even sent you a crash report.

Nothing came out of this. There wasn't even a suggestion what I could do to avoid the crash.


I can't track your support case without at least knowing your name to look into it, or the support ticket number.

Support always get back with advice and suggestions.  We don't leave anybody hanging.

So could you please PM me either so we can solve your issue?
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2013, 11:22:40 AM »
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Just to clarify, I don't think I said "all". I said "most".  

The reality I see is, If you are a digital tech working for a photographer, C1 being the app you know....since you got yourself a piece of paper from C1 University, and now you are a certified C1 pro...You must love C1 and would hate to see it become user friendly. This is a business model, much like the dumbing down of some societies. Its a false economic whirlpool created to make a skill set in demand.  Of course C1 is not the only one, but in software to a end retail client, I can't think of too many that haven't realized it is a restricted business model. It is even more restricting when you're not a pioneer in the way you do things(cataloging with processor) Specially to a leveling industry. I hope that makes sense, I can clarify points if need be.

There are many differnt types of "image handlers".  Some that will setup most the day for the shoot take a few frames and call it a day. There is the spray shooter, the thoughtful spray shooter, the spontaneous session..Then in fine art the theme/series builder that has lots of files in a catagory, there is the event shooter, the shooter that hires the digital tech that will prep the file and likely hand off to a retoucher situation. There are many others I'm sure.  
The fact that you can do a number of things easier in LR with stability and consistancy splits the "User". Who is the user? The retoucher?, the digitech?, the photographer?  SO as soon as you have the split of tasks, it is where C1 fits the business model. If you are a phjotographer retouching for yourself, and captureing for yourself, C1 is restricting work flow. So if you don't spend DAY after DAY for a long time using C1, then you will forget the way it does things. The minute you use LR, and the logical layout of it, you get back in the mindset of using an Adobe product that works with OS standards, and you forget C1.  It is VERY FORGETTABLE! So if you RELY on it for your position, it will be the main app you use, and there it will be no problem.

C1 is not flexible enough for all of them. It focuses on the digital tech. This is usually a larger budget shoot, and thats where the main focus is on. They really don't care too much about the mass market. Do the files process well? Oh yes! Do MOST users hate working with it? Oh Yes!  Would they make more money by revamping its restricted user approach? I don't know.

Yes, thanks for correcting that it is not I that has a difficulty with the interface. The interface itself is flawed in its design.   Since my folders stopped showing up, I use C1 on a must need basis, and that is often as I have to use C1 for tether capture of Phase One cameras.

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'All Photographers'?

Thats a pretty strong claim and not factually correct.  We have many users who like the way Capture One runs and the workflow.  I also accept that some, like yourself, do not like the workflow.

And, as I stated earlier we all want to broaden the appeal of the software.

Secondly, have you reached out to us through the proper channels for help?

- Have you raised a support ticket at http://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMain.aspx
- Have you watched any of the instructional videos on our YouTube channel?  Maybe it would help you to see the advantages of working with a Catalog or Session?

Alternatively, as I have stated on this forum before and also Doug many a time, you can simply browse the  system in ANY session.  So just create a Session anywhere, any place and browse your system to the files of your choice.

Did you need to import all 9600 photos you mention on another thread?  Did you have to reprocess all of those?  If it was only a selection, why not import just those into a Catalog or Session?

You are correct, adding Folder from the folder menu is not the right way to do things.  Import first (just the images you need) then work on them.  This is why I feel it is worth watching some of the videos to get a handle on the workflow and ultimately save yourself time and frustration.


Your question of TheView contacting "the proper channels for help?"  This is unacceptable. If you can't be the proper channel or lesion for communication, what is your role besides getting us unstuck at critical times and being a great 1to1 help(Both you and Doug since I have interacted and spoke with him over the years...amazing person. But why would you not relay the info with giving it substance? As much as the role of answering technical questions has a good value, it really creates a loophole for information gathering. These questions or concerns should be handled (copy/paste) as any other trouble ticket. 2013. Having the latest tech digital backs shouldn't blind you from a simply Remedy/Ticket que to problem solving.   But if you have no weight on the main concerns and are only boosting us over each hurdle...I don't see the long term value.

Creating a Session anywhere just creates a bunch of folders and makes tracking files a headache. A studio is a rather fast paces environment. Things have to be systematic, you can expect to have order creating sessions then cleaning up after the mess it makes, and rearranging files.... Come on this is elementary level stuff it doesn't do properly.

If the app contradicts itself, how can we expect consistancy? There are variable shooting situations as I explained above......In a constantly changing environment less is more.   C1 Pro Lite...No Sessions, no catalogs....See how fast this version takes off the shopping carts!!!

« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 04:01:34 PM by Phil Indeblanc » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2013, 03:04:58 AM »
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Your question of TheView contacting "the proper channels for help?"  This is unacceptable. If you can't be the proper channel or lesion for communication, what is your role besides getting us unstuck at critical times and being a great 1to1 help(Both you and Doug since I have interacted and spoke with him over the years...amazing person. But why would you not relay the info with giving it substance? As much as the role of answering technical questions has a good value, it really creates a loophole for information gathering. These questions or concerns should be handled (copy/paste) as any other trouble ticket. 2013. Having the latest tech digital backs shouldn't blind you from a simply Remedy/Ticket que to problem solving.   But if you have no weight on the main concerns and are only boosting us over each hurdle...I don't see the long term value.


Its not unacceptable at all.

We have a dedicated support team who answer cases within 24 hours.  Far faster that I could and with a better response.

There is no point me copy/pasting minimal info to support acting as some kind of go-between slowing the process down.  It is MUCH faster if you have the dialogue yourself.

Monitoring the forum is not my sole responsibility and I don't look at it all day everyday.  If customers expect they can get dedicated support form a forum they are going to be disappointed if it takes 7 days for a response.

My role is to look in when I can, gain an insight into how Capture One is used and how it can be improved.  I step in on technical help when I can.

I hope 'The View' sends me the information I ask so we can follow up on his case.


Creating a Session anywhere just creates a bunch of folders and makes tracking files a headache. A studio is a rather fast paces environment. Things have to be systematic, you can expect to have order creating sessions then cleaning up after the mess it makes, and rearranging files.... Come on this is elementary level stuff it doesn't do properly.

If the app contradicts itself, how can we expect consistancy? There are variable shooting situations as I explained above......In a constantly changing environment less is more.   C1 Pro Lite...No Sessions, no catalogs....See how fast this version takes off the shopping carts!!!


Exactly, which is why it is better to embrace the Session or Catalog as it was designed.

Yes, the studio is a fast paced environment.  I mentioned to you in an earlier discussion that you could have a file browser solution IF you would be prepared to wait 2-3 seconds between browsing images.  This does not work in a fast paced environment.

A Session or Catalog creates previews to facilitate amongst other things, faster browsing between images and the actions of the tools.

Phil, I am here to help when I can, and we do want to make Capture One a better product.  We have a a huge install base, so please consider that the perfect application for you, might not be so perfect for someone else.  The challenge is to make it appealing as possible to a large user base.

David


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« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2013, 03:02:39 PM »
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I created a work-around for now and hope for a more modular approach in the future.

Phil is right that a software for higher end users should have more options.

A modular approach is best.

You can have a catalog, but you can also go around it and use a file browser. It's sometimes faster to do so - at least if you have a good folder structure.

It's all about letting users make choices and not making choices for them.

This is all for now. I now really have to make good on lost time.

If C1 goes down a way I don't like I will have to consider my options - not an easy decision after years of using C1.

But for now, I'll simply work around the problems and see what comes.
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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2013, 03:39:44 PM »
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I have used C1 since 3. something was out. 3.7x was the best that C1 was for the way it worked with the OS and folders. 

This is not new news The View.  Since they had sessions and pushed it and pushed it without changing it, and now catalogs....our voices are so far meaningless.
I hear the reps saying we want to make it "better". But all they have made it is more marketable in the statistic charts when compared to other top picks in raw dev applications.

They added brush Layers. Great, No change in Sessions or how folders are spit out onto a nice clean folder structure we maintain.
They did better lens correction, no change in the same core issues, complaints
They added B&W, no options of change elsewhere
They improved performance, yay!
They added more presets
They added split tone
They added catalogs....and made things even more messed up and complex.
(I'm sure the above list is out of order and incomplete, but they sure didn't make Sessions or the way browsing related to Sessions any better.)

I guess one of the best ways to affirm this is as someone mentioned in another post, how Michael Reichmann's video, shows his puzzled expression as he is explained how C1 deals with folders and Sessions etc. 

Keep calm and ....what ever you gotta do!
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