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Author Topic: Is HP Vivera (Z3200) ink free of animal products?  (Read 1132 times)
georgek
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« on: February 17, 2013, 04:11:41 AM »
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A new client is vegan and has asked me if HP Vivera ink for the Z3200, is free of animal products? Any idea anyone???

Ernst or Mark (MHMG) maybe?

Thanks
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 05:15:02 AM by georgek » Logged

Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 06:05:10 AM »
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Extremely unlikely given the patents of inkjet inks I have seen. But when someone tells me there is an oxgall wetting agent used or a gelatine cooked from bones I would not be surprised. The chance your papers contain sizing based on animal waste is however higher. Next week a customer will require biodegradable inks and media made of organic products and prints that survive 20 decades. At some point your human rights are degrading :-)

Ernst, op de lei getypt.

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Rhossydd
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 07:35:08 AM »
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Next week a customer will require biodegradable inks
Time to dig out those old Epson 1290s then ;-)
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MHMG
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 09:38:23 AM »
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Extremely unlikely given the patents of inkjet inks I have seen. But when someone tells me there is an oxgall wetting agent used or a gelatine cooked from bones I would not be surprised. The chance your papers contain sizing based on animal waste is however higher. Next week a customer will require biodegradable inks and media made of organic products and prints that survive 20 decades. At some point your human rights are degrading :-)

I totally agree. Likelihood of animal by-products in the ink is very low.  However, gelatin (made from cattle bones) as a sizing agent in paper and as a component in inkjet coatings is pretty common. And if the client really wants to be 100% true to his/her beliefs, any personal collection of 20th century photographs should cause deep anxiety because gelatin was the required image binder for both photographic films and prints that made this entire era of film and photography possible. There were many attempts with no success AFAIK to create an alternative "synthetic gelatin" in the photographic industry.  Also, the gesso ground layer in traditional oil paintings often used rabbit skin glue. Wooden furniture joints and veneers all bonded with hide glue as well.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 09:42:32 AM by MHMG » Logged
Geraldo Garcia
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 12:57:56 PM »
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I was talking to a friend recently and we were joking about that. He was asking me if someone had ever questioned us about our prints being free of animal by-products and we had a good laugh about it... I have to tell him that it actually happened to someone.

About the question, I would tell the vegan client that, as far as I know, the inks are made of mineral or synthetic pigments, glycols and water and most papers we use are made of cotton with addition of calcium carbonate and potato starch as a sizing agent. What else they may use on the inks or the paper or the coating we don´t know. Some art papers (like Arches Aquarelle) in fact use gelatin as a sizing agent, but I know for sure they do not use it on the Inkjet version of the same paper. I was invited to their factory last year and the person in charge of their Fine Art paper´s production was showing me the gelatin sizing process on the art papers as I asked about the inkjet version. She told me that they tested it but it did not add any benefit, only cost to the inkjet papers, so they do not use it.

So... I would say that as far as I know our prints are free of animal products, but it is hard to be 100% sure.

Best regards.   
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bill t.
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 01:05:54 PM »
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Cennini's "The Craftstman's Handbook" was a good read for 15th century, hands-on artists, hands-on being your only option at the time.  Animal parts figured prominently in the many churlish formulas contained therein.  Being a vegan artist in those times was no walk in the park.  Chapter II examines some of the motives and techniques for entering the art world.

http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Craftsman_s_Handbook.html?id=GYu-dc4NAyIC
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Damir
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 02:50:10 PM »
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Vivera ink is free of animal products, as I know. I don't know everything but I know very much.
Paper for pigment print probably do not have any animal products, but it may have some in form of glue that is used to bind coating to the base of supstrate.
Swellable paper used for dye printing have gelatin in their coating.
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zippski
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 07:36:14 PM »
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Tell her no, but that the green ink is 100% soylent green.

Egads.

Leigh
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2013, 02:58:48 AM »
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Tell her no, but that the green ink is 100% soylent green.

Egads.

Leigh

In my reply I tried not to specify male/female but it was a "her" too that I tried to understand. The soylent green will be acceptable I think, the more if it is labelled "men". We have a slight problem here in Europe with horse/beef labels, good meat but the wrong labels. I do hope it is enough to make the UK leave the EU at last but that is a private sentiment.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

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georgek
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 05:15:26 AM »
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Male client actually! He is pretty sure Hahnemühle papers contain no animal products. I don't know for sure but I'm meeting with Stefan Neumann (Hahnemühle technical manager) at Focus 2013 in a couple of weeks time so I'll find out then. Many thanks for all your answers!
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Geraldo Garcia
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2013, 10:45:37 AM »
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I just got in touch with Stefan Newmann from Hahnemühle and took the opportunity to ask him about that.
His Answer:

Quote
Regarding your question, I can only speak for the Paper. In the production of our Digital FineArt brand are not any kind of material coming from an animal involved.

He also told me this was the third time this year that he was asked that question.

Best Regards.
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georgek
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2013, 11:38:56 AM »
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Thanks Geraldo! Just sent you a PM.
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Czornyj
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2013, 03:24:08 PM »
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He also told me this was the third time this year that he was asked that question.

Apparently vegans seriously get their teeth into printing
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Marcin Kałuża
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« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2013, 11:17:16 PM »
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Oh my. I might lose a customer such as this since I am not free of animal products.  Cry   
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