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Author Topic: Trouble Downloading i1 Display 2 software onto Recent IMac  (Read 4057 times)
nkpoulsen
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« on: February 22, 2013, 07:34:55 AM »
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Occasionally I do monitor profiles for others, and I've been using i1 Display 2.  This isn't so much as a business as it is a courtesy for fellow photographers.  

Just a few days ago, I was profiling what may be a recent IMac, and the i1 Display 2 wouldn't load onto this particular machine.  I didn't get the exact message.  It was something to the effect that it was a discontinued product, and that it would run on a "Power PC".  It also said something about the machine being an Intel based pc.

Is this new?  I checked some past threads, and I didn't see reference to this.  Don't Apple Macs tend to be backwards compatible, so that software that runs on previous Intel based machines will run on current machines?  I've never had a problem running this software on my MacBook Pro, which is an Intel based machine.  Nor have I ever had a problem loading i1 Display 2 onto the many machines that I've calibrated.

What options exist for me to use my i1 Display 2 colorimeter?  Is there other X-Rite software that I can use w/ this colorimeter?  If so, what are the license agreements?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 07:41:18 AM by nkpoulsen » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2013, 08:59:16 AM »
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Occasionally I do monitor profiles for others, and I've been using i1 Display 2.  This isn't so much as a business as it is a courtesy for fellow photographers.

Good because I'm pretty sure you're breaking the EULA!
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Andrew Rodney
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nkpoulsen
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2013, 12:01:35 AM »
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EULA?  I don't know what this means.
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nkpoulsen
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2013, 12:11:33 AM »
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Oh, end-user-license-agreement.

No, I'm not breaking this agreement.  When I purchased this unit from Gretag, I spoke to them about this.  The license agreement is on the device, not the software or the particular computer.  I was told that I could use this device, and download the software, on as many computers as I wanted. 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 12:20:22 AM by nkpoulsen » Logged
Schewe
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2013, 12:19:13 AM »
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EULA?  I don't know what this means.

E
nd User License Agreement...you know, what you agreed to when you bought the software. (guess you don't read the fine print, huh?).

I agree with Andrew...you are likely breaking the EULA by making display profiles for 3rd parties without a specific license to do so (you know, software is intellectual property and not subject to doing whatever the frack you want to do with it).

BTW, if you had half a clue you might realize that i1Display 2 requires 10.6.8 and can not use Rosetta (since Apple cut that off).

Good that you aren't trying to make a living off this cause, well, it seems you have some major holes in your knowledge...

Bottom line? Don't do what you are trying to do...make those guys pony up and pay for display calibration.

Really, I have ZERO sympathy for a bunch of freeloaders...which you are enabling. Screw them (and screw you if you keep on doing this shyte).
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Schewe
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2013, 12:21:25 AM »
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When I purchased this piece of equipment, I was told by Gretag that I was permitted to use the software and the colorimeter on any computer/monitor combination.

Probably limited to YOUR personal use...not a bunch of 3rd party freeloaders...

Go back and read exactly what you agreed to...odds are, you are wrong...
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nkpoulsen
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2013, 12:29:34 AM »
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E
nd User License Agreement...you know, what you agreed to when you bought the software. (guess you don't read the fine print, huh?).

I agree with Andrew...you are likely breaking the EULA by making display profiles for 3rd parties without a specific license to do so (you know, software is intellectual property and not subject to doing whatever the frack you want to do with it).

BTW, if you had half a clue you might realize that i1Display 2 requires 10.6.8 and can not use Rosetta (since Apple cut that off).

Good that you aren't trying to make a living off this cause, well, it seems you have some major holes in your knowledge...

Bottom line? Don't do what you are trying to do...make those guys pony up and pay for display calibration.

Really, I have ZERO sympathy for a bunch of freeloaders...which you are enabling. Screw them (and screw you if you keep on doing this shyte).

This response is over the top and uncalled for.  Read my previous post.

Thank you for the information on Rosetta, even though the delivery was sub-standard.  I'll look into this.  

They are not freeloaders, nor am I.  I have some expertise, and I like using it to help others.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 12:32:44 AM by nkpoulsen » Logged
Schewe
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2013, 12:39:15 AM »
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This response is over the top and uncalled for.  Read my previous post.

I did...and I stand by what I said...freeloaders. They won't buy a display profiling solution but are willing to have you come in and profile their displays for free? And you see nothing wrong with this? Sorry, I do...freeloaders.

Read the EULA again....

And it would do you well to have some clue about the requirements of the software and the hardware you are trying to run the software on. Clearly, you don't know what you are doing (otherwise you would know what system requirements the software needs).

Again, it's a good thing your are not doing this professionally because you are not being professional.

You don't like that?

Deal with it bud...what you are trying to do, pretty much sucks...
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 12:40:59 AM by Schewe » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2013, 09:40:59 AM »
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Oh, end-user-license-agreement.
No, I'm not breaking this agreement.  When I purchased this unit from Gretag, I spoke to them about this.  The license agreement is on the device, not the software or the particular computer.  I was told that I could use this device, and download the software, on as many computers as I wanted.  

You have the software right? Just what product is it (i1Profiler, i1Display?) So just read the EULA or post it here.

Your spoken understanding doesn't make sense (EULA is on device, not software). The EULA has specifics on the actual profiles and their use too. Further, GretagMacBeth is long gone so I don't know how that bodes for their older EULA, if you end up with new software (necessary if you plan to deal with modern OS's), you're back to having to read and hopefully honor that EULA. Not that there are X-rite police looking out for you (you either believe and honor EULA or you don't).
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 10:01:22 AM »
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Use ArgyllCMS + dispcalGUI in case of problems with new OSX or EULA
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nkpoulsen
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 03:27:42 PM »
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You have the software right? Just what product is it (i1Profiler, i1Display?) So just read the EULA or post it here.

Your spoken understanding doesn't make sense (EULA is on device, not software). The EULA has specifics on the actual profiles and their use too. Further, GretagMacBeth is long gone so I don't know how that bodes for their older EULA, if you end up with new software (necessary if you plan to deal with modern OS's), you're back to having to read and hopefully honor that EULA. Not that there are X-rite police looking out for you (you either believe and honor EULA or you don't).

None the less, that's what I was told, that the license agreement was on the device.  At the time, it was my intention to use this colorimeter professionally, and it's my recollection that I explained that to them.  Certainly, they understood that I was using it on other systems.  It's why I've stuck with this older system.  

Since I originally began this thread, I've learned that, last fall, X-Rite offered a free upgrade to the i1Profiler from i1Display2.  Of course, the new EULA applies.  I dislike breaking license agreements, so I will likely honor that new agreement.

So, how do professionals these days obtain the license to profile other owner's monitors?  Is it the expectation that each client purchase their own colorimeter?  (It doesn't seem like this would be the case.)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 03:31:21 PM by nkpoulsen » Logged
Eric Brody
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2013, 06:22:44 PM »
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Actually I suspect that the manufacturers really do want each user to own their own device. I agree that in the big picture this seems a bit wasteful. I profile my monitor once monthly, so the rest of the time my colorimeter is sitting on my shelf doing nothing for anyone. I have no idea how a company like X-Rite feels about your downloading software onto some one else's machine and using your own colorimeter, though I suspect, as does Andrew and Jeff, that they're not happy about it. I have the old i1 Display 2 and it needs a special setup for Lion and above, I believe. It now is used only to profile my laptop. Recently, I purchased a new NEC display and the Spectraview II software and device package for my Mac Pro tower. Profiling is now incredibly easy, a closed loop system is the way to go.
Eric
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kaelaria
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2013, 06:58:57 PM »
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There sure are a lot of douchebags here.

Simple solution, been using it for a long time.  Go here, register your unit and get the DL link for the new compatible software, works great - and is even much faster to use and profile!  Down to about 5 minutes, I love it. http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=264
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nkpoulsen
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2013, 12:55:26 AM »
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. . . Again, it's a good thing your are not doing this professionally because you are not being professional. . . .

If your posts set the standard on professionalism, I don't think that I have anything to worry about.
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Schewe
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2013, 01:35:02 AM »
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If your posts set the standard on professionalism, I don't think that I have anything to worry about.

I never claimed to be a professional anything (other than a pain in the arse)...I was referring to you and the fact you didn't know what the EULA says (or even what a EULA was).

So, have you read the EULA for the i1 Display 2 software?

Quote
So, how do professionals these days obtain the license to profile other owner's monitors?  Is it the expectation that each client purchase their own colorimeter?  (It doesn't seem like this would be the case.)

The key here is the concept of professionals...anybody doing any sort of serious work would be foolish not to invest in their own display profiling...and yes, I'm pretty sure X-Rite is thinking a pro would buy their own stuff for display profiling.

The primary 3rd party color management professional would be more likely involved in making custom 3rd party profiles for others because not everybody needs to invest in a spectrophotometer and the software to build profiles. The EULA agreement allows this as long as you don't sell or release those profiles beyond the scope of a custom profile for another person. You are not allowed to to a mass release for free or a fee. PixelGenius had to get special permission when Epson wanted us to release ICC profiles for Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper.

I'm pretty sure Andrew still engages in 3rd party paper profiles...all under the current EULA. But I'm also pretty sure he doesn't normally go around and profile other people's displays with his hardware/software for doing so.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2013, 09:39:41 AM »
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At least in terms of i1match (the old GMB software), the specifics are here:

Quote
b)   Restricted use
GretagMacbeth hereby grants You under all its Proprietary Rights the personal, non-exclusive right to install and use the Software for its intended purpose in connection with ICC-Profiles, in particular the creation thereof on a single personal computer or workstation and to make one copy of the Software in machine-readable form for backup purposes only. You must reproduce on any such copy the copyright notices and any other proprietary legends that were on the original copy of the Software. GretagMacbeth grants no rights or license of any kind to the Software to You other than those expressly granted above.

2   Use of Profiles
   a)    The Software is licensed for use only as follows:
(i) To create profiles on the specific input or output device that You own or otherwise possess and for which they were created ("Your Device"). You may make these profiles available to third parties only in circumstances in which the third party will be optimizing images that have been created on, or will be output on, Your Device, provided that Your Device continues to be owned by You or in Your possession at such time that a profile is made available to such third party; or

(ii) to create profiles by using reference characteristic data which are publicly and without consideration provided by professional or trade associations like standardization institutes to be used for their intended purpose; or

(iii) to create a profile, as part of Your providing a profiling service, for a specific input or output device owned by a third party for use by that third party on such device.


b) No Distribution of generic profiles
This Agreement does not grant You the right to distribute or embed created profiles, also not under Your private label, into any software, devices or consumables like paper that You manufacture, market or distribute to third parties. If You wish to create profiles for this purpose, You will need a separate license. With regard to generic profiles created by non-profit organizations like the ECI, GretagMacbeth is however prepared to permit to embed such profiles into any software, devices or consumables to be distributed commercially by an agreement on a case by case basis. For information on a separate license You may contact support@gretagmacbeth.com.  .

The bit about installing on a fixed machine is one thing, then there's the bit about creating profiles as a service. I'm not a lawyer but it seems that taking GMB software and installing it on other's machines to calibrate and profile the display is NOT allowed. Installing the software on one of your computers to build say an output profile you supply to someone else is OK. Again, I'm not a lawyer nor have ever played one on TV.
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Andrew Rodney
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nkpoulsen
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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2013, 02:09:39 AM »
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I spoke with X-Rite Sales on Thursday on a different topic and happened to ask about their license to install X-Rite display profiling software/heardware that I purchased on computers other than my own.

Their response was exactly the same that I received years ago from Gretag, when I asked the same question.  The license is not on the given computer, it's on the colorimeter.  As long as one's not violating that license, he or she is at liberty under the end user license agreement to install X-Rite display profiling software on any computer for the purpose of creating a display profile for use by others and by other computer owners. 

In fact, the sales person with whom I spoke volunteered that Gretag, when in business, had the same policy.

This makes sense.  Else, X-Rite, like Gretag before them, would be in the untenable position of "requiring" that users purchase a relatively expensive product that they might need only two or three times a year.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2013, 09:07:45 AM »
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I spoke with X-Rite Sales on Thursday on a different topic and happened to ask about their license to install X-Rite display profiling software/heardware that I purchased on computers other than my own.Their response was exactly the same that I received years ago from Gretag, when I asked the same question. 
So you believe this sales person and as such, think it's wise to ignore the EULA which is shown below? Where do you see it clearly written that: ...he or she is at liberty under the end user license agreement to install X-Rite display profiling software on any computer for the purpose of creating a display profile for use by others and by other computer owners And further, for a fee?
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2013, 09:21:15 AM »
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Here's part of the latest EUAL (i1P) which seems to cover where you can install the software.:

Restrictions. In addition to other restrictions set forth in this Agreement, You may not (a) use, copy or distribute the Software (electronically or otherwise) or any copy, adaptation, transcription or merged portion thereof except as expressly authorized under this Agreement; (b) create derivative works based in whole or in part on the Software, (c) use the Software for the benefit of third parties in a commercial, retail, service bureau or otherwise whether for profit or without charge, except as permitted under this Agreement; (d) modify, disassemble, reverse compile, decompile or reverse engineer the Software or otherwise examine the Software for purposes of reverse engineering; or (e) distribute any serial number or password supplied to You
by X-Rite, except as a permanent transfer of single copy of the Software in its registered, fully functional mode to one new owner, as provided in this Agreement.


And:

Copies – Demo Software. If the Software is a demonstration version of X-Rite software (“Demo Software”), then you may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Demo Software as you receive it, solely for purposes of demonstration and evaluation, provided that you (i) conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty; (ii) keep intact all the notices that refer to this Agreement and to the absence of any warranty; (iii) distribute the Demo Software's installer complete with all of its support and documentation files; and (iv) give any recipient of the Demo Software a copy of this Agreement and require that each such recipient agree to be bound to the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

Lastly (the meat and potatoes for profile usage):

LICENSED PROFILES
As used herein, the term “Profile” refers to data stored in look-up tables for use in characterizing various input, display and output devices.
If the Software licensed to You pursuant to this Agreement includes functionality that supports and/or permits the creation of Profiles, then the license to access and use the Software set forth in this Agreement includes a personal, nonexclusive, nontransferable license to use the Profiles created with the Software (“Licensed Profiles”) as set forth below.
1. You may personally use Licensed Profiles in connection with one or more devices, and You may provide Licensed Profiles to one or more third parties to facilitate their interaction with You and Your devices.
2. You may provide Licensed Profiles to one or more third parties in connection with Your
profiling services provided Your profiling services involve personalized profile-related customer consultations and are predominantly conducted on-site at a customer location.
3. You may use and provide Licensed Profiles to one or more third parties if You are affiliated with a not-for-profit educational institution, professional association and/or trade association, and Your use of Licensed Profiles directly relates to service to the public for no consideration, and provided further that You and the third party clearly indicate in any material accompanying the Licensed Profile that the Licensed Profile was created using X-Rite Software [name the software].
Notwithstanding the foregoing, in the absence of a further license or distribution agreement with X-Rite, You may not, directly or indirectly, provide a Licensed Profile to a third party: (i) in conjunction with the sale or promotion of an input, display or output device and/or ink or paper if such sale or promotion extends beyond a single customer-specific application, or (ii) in conjunction with profiling services that are offered electronically or online, including through electronic media, email or other network-based communication channels, without significant billable services that involve personalized customer interaction.
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Andrew Rodney
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MirekElsner
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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2013, 11:46:50 PM »
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...you know, what you agreed to when you bought the software. (guess you don't read the fine print, huh?).



Isn't this particular software available for download to anyone who registers on the web site?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 11:59:01 PM by MirekElsner » Logged
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