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Author Topic: Epson International Pricing Policies  (Read 2039 times)
BrianWJH
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« on: March 02, 2013, 09:00:38 PM »
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I am interested in the experience and view of Epson users in other countries outside the USA in terms of Epson's local pricing policies and Epson's restriction on US based dealers to supply customers outside the US.

Below are some examples of the disparity in pricing for Epson products between USA based online dealers and those in my country.

Upon checking various US based online photographic equipment suppliers it appears that HP and Canon have no such restrictions with the same suppliers, this is not to say that HP and Canon have fairer pricing within Australia, they clearly do not but at least they don't enforce a cartel like restriction on their dealers.

On the surface it appears that Epson is protecting their high profits in non USA branches.

As an example in Australia the best price I can find for Epson 3880 ink cartridges is $91.00(US) plus freight (each), the same cartridge (manufactured in Japan btw) is sold at BHPhotoVideo for $49.95 with free freight.

Other examples include the Epson Stylus Pro 9900, BHPhotoVideo price $4995.00 less $1000.00 Epson rebate for $3995.00 delivered.

In Australia the best price I could find from an Epson dealer was $11668.00(US) plus delivery charges, a whopping 233% more expensive than the non-rebate US price.

The entry pro level Epson Stylus Pro 3880 sells for $1139.00 ($889.00 with mail-in rebate) from BHPhotoVideo, in Australia the best price I can find is $1937.00(US), 70% more expensive than the non-rebate BHPV price.

Some of the enormous price difference can be explained by increased freight costs and a smaller market, although Japan manufactured items should at least in theory be cheaper to ship to Australia as we are a lot closer to Japan geographically than the US, just some 6 hours by air.

Currently, the Australian Government has an ongoing inquiry into similar behaviour by other big brand electronic goods and software suppliers, hopefully some substantiated evidence can be provided to enlighten us.

Cheers,
Brian.
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hanzo
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2013, 08:05:35 AM »
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Epson R3000 inks I ordered from USA $32 per cartridge. Upon receiving, I noticed its manufactured in Indonesia.
The same ink price in neighboring country (Singapore), S$68 or roughly $55. Ridiculous ? You bet
I wonder how long Epson could survive with this kind of pricing
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enduser
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2013, 06:37:51 AM »
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The case of supply not being forthcoming because you live in Australia is theoretically illegal due to a comprehensive Free Trade Agreement signed up for by both countries.  I have had some success by threatening legal action against recalcitrant suppliers in the US.

On the other hand there are some organisations which will, for a moderate fee, buy on your behalf in the US, take delivery and gain any rebates for you, and then ship the goods to you from their depot.

I know of one case where an Aussie bought three Canon iPF 8300 printers this way.  The cost difference was so great that the non-existence of the miserly one year warranty was meaningless, he could afford whatever repair he needed with the savings, many times over.

I was advised that Japanese companies operating outside Japan always have a Japanese oversee operations, and in Oz that's where the decision on prices is made.  Canon staff know that no-one here pays $125 or more for genuine Canon ink - they all buy from the US or China at half that price.  When they point this out to the overseer his answer is always a single "No". Discussion not allowed.
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hanzo
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2013, 11:47:38 AM »
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The case of supply not being forthcoming because you live in Australia is theoretically illegal due to a comprehensive Free Trade Agreement signed up for by both countries.  I have had some success by threatening legal action against recalcitrant suppliers in the US.

Wow.. sounds like fun.. I should try that someday  Grin
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stuartr
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2013, 05:51:47 PM »
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Yes, the situation is absurd for me, and I am trying to find things to do about it! The pricing here in Iceland is far above what one would pay in the US or UK.
I used to just buy the inks from B&H...no problem. Last time I tried, they told me that I could not. They said that they were not even allowed to sell to people with a foreign credit-card, even if the shipping address was in the states. This HAS to be illegal. I am an American and still have a US card, so I think I will need to resort to having friends or family send the cartridges on to me. I cannot see any good reason why we should have to pay so much more than the rest of the international market. I would really like to given them a piece of my mind!

P.S. I also bought my printer in the US and had it shipped to Iceland. The US price at the time was 6000, but I found one for 5500 with a 1000 dollar rebate. Shipping to Iceland via ship was 900 USD. B&H's shipping quote was 3000 USD for UPS. I had it shipped via the local sea-freight company. The printer was shipped for free to their US port's receiving office, and then they handled the shipping and customs clearance. I paid the appropriate Icelandic import taxes, and it was still several thousand dollars less than the local Epson distributor quoted. Seeing as they don't even do their own service, nor stock the inks, I could not see a reason why I should buy from them. I did not have a warranty issue during that time, but I did still get phone support once or twice, and that was not an issue. The chat service on their website is free even out of warranty, and I have found the people there to be quite knowledgeable and helpful. The Epson staff here have no experience or help for the printer, and all repair work is done by a private contractor who also has very little experience with the printer (by his own admission), though lots with Epson printers in general.

P.P.S. I had to remove some price examples from this post, as the information was given to me incorrectly. I had requested a price quote for some cartridges, and it was absurd...160% of US retail before taxes and shipping. This was a mistake. That 160% was the retail price recommendation including shipping and VAT in Europe. So the pricing is still roughly 160-180% more here in Iceland than in the US, once taxes are arbitrary price increases are accounted for. It is insane, just not QUITE as insane as it was in the figures last night.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 09:05:59 AM by stuartr » Logged
pixeldoppelganger
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2013, 05:59:35 PM »
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My thoughts:

A couple of years ago, I heard about a seller on eBay selling genuine Epson inks for the 9900.  Sure enough I bought them at a significant discount, and
they performed brilliantly.   Some time later, I had an Epson specialist come visit the studio to look into our 11880's issues, this fellow was not a Decision One tech, but the east coast specialist for Epson USA.

We talked about the fact that my 9900 and 11880 had this eBay purchased ink, (which was Indonesian variety, not Japan or China ... and now apparently Mexico)
He told me Epson was very aware of this situation and was not pleased this was happening.

I didn't think anything of it....
until recently when (after firmware updates were made on both units)  that same ebay ink, was failing to be recognized.  I contacted Epson, they setup a crossshipping swap... and all was well...

It got me thinking, so I checked Amazon, and sure enough, on other printer models, there are people buying ink from outside markets, and having failure to recognize errors in large numbers.

I don't recall seeing this 'feature' in any firmware, software driver, etc updates from Epson.  I wonder however, if this is what has happened so Epson can protect different pricing in different markets.
I'm sure there's no way to examine the firmware code, to compare old firmware vs. current firmware.
I'm sure Epson USA would never publicly admit if indeed this was planned and implemented.

With the Supreme Court ruling this year about first-sale doctrine, I suspect our technologies will have more controls put into place

>>From Wikipedia       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

However, in Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons, Inc.,[10] in 2013, the United States Supreme Court held in a 6-3 decision that the first-sale doctrine applies to goods manufactured abroad, even if they were manufactured abroad with the copyright owner's permission and imported into the US. The case involved a plaintiff who imported Asian editions of textbooks that were manufactured abroad with the publisher-plaintiff's permission. The defendant then without permission from the publisher imported the textbooks and resold on eBay. The Supreme Court's holding severely limits the ability of copyright holders to charge vastly different prices in different markets due to ease of arbitrage. The decision does remove incentives to US manufacturers to shift the manufacturing abroad to attempt to circumvent the first-sale doctrine altogether.


Curious if anyone here in the USA, has more knowledge on the Indonesian inks from Epson
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pixeldoppelganger
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2013, 11:10:40 PM »
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bump
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eronald
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 09:37:11 AM »
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My thoughts:

A couple of years ago, I heard about a seller on eBay selling genuine Epson inks for the 9900.  Sure enough I bought them at a significant discount, and
they performed brilliantly.   Some time later, I had an Epson specialist come visit the studio to look into our 11880's issues, this fellow was not a Decision One tech, but the east coast specialist for Epson USA.

We talked about the fact that my 9900 and 11880 had this eBay purchased ink, (which was Indonesian variety, not Japan or China ... and now apparently Mexico)
He told me Epson was very aware of this situation and was not pleased this was happening.

I didn't think anything of it....
until recently when (after firmware updates were made on both units)  that same ebay ink, was failing to be recognized.  I contacted Epson, they setup a crossshipping swap... and all was well...

It got me thinking, so I checked Amazon, and sure enough, on other printer models, there are people buying ink from outside markets, and having failure to recognize errors in large numbers.

I don't recall seeing this 'feature' in any firmware, software driver, etc updates from Epson.  I wonder however, if this is what has happened so Epson can protect different pricing in different markets.
I'm sure there's no way to examine the firmware code, to compare old firmware vs. current firmware.
I'm sure Epson USA would never publicly admit if indeed this was planned and implemented.

With the Supreme Court ruling this year about first-sale doctrine, I suspect our technologies will have more controls put into place

>>From Wikipedia       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

However, in Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons, Inc.,[10] in 2013, the United States Supreme Court held in a 6-3 decision that the first-sale doctrine applies to goods manufactured abroad, even if they were manufactured abroad with the copyright owner's permission and imported into the US. The case involved a plaintiff who imported Asian editions of textbooks that were manufactured abroad with the publisher-plaintiff's permission. The defendant then without permission from the publisher imported the textbooks and resold on eBay. The Supreme Court's holding severely limits the ability of copyright holders to charge vastly different prices in different markets due to ease of arbitrage. The decision does remove incentives to US manufacturers to shift the manufacturing abroad to attempt to circumvent the first-sale doctrine altogether.


Curious if anyone here in the USA, has more knowledge on the Indonesian inks from Epson


Yes, but the warranty only applies to the first buyer. Smiley
And anyway, the US government seems to consider that depending on where you live it has a right to kill you by using a drone, so it is certain that depending on where you live a company has a right to determine pricing. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Edmund
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 09:40:35 AM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
hanzo
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2013, 06:52:02 AM »
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My thoughts:

A couple of years ago, I heard about a seller on eBay selling genuine Epson inks for the 9900.  Sure enough I bought them at a significant discount, and
they performed brilliantly.   Some time later, I had an Epson specialist come visit the studio to look into our 11880's issues, this fellow was not a Decision One tech, but the east coast specialist for Epson USA.

We talked about the fact that my 9900 and 11880 had this eBay purchased ink, (which was Indonesian variety, not Japan or China ... and now apparently Mexico)
He told me Epson was very aware of this situation and was not pleased this was happening.

I didn't think anything of it....
until recently when (after firmware updates were made on both units)  that same ebay ink, was failing to be recognized.  I contacted Epson, they setup a crossshipping swap... and all was well...

It got me thinking, so I checked Amazon, and sure enough, on other printer models, there are people buying ink from outside markets, and having failure to recognize errors in large numbers.

I don't recall seeing this 'feature' in any firmware, software driver, etc updates from Epson.  I wonder however, if this is what has happened so Epson can protect different pricing in different markets.
I'm sure there's no way to examine the firmware code, to compare old firmware vs. current firmware.
I'm sure Epson USA would never publicly admit if indeed this was planned and implemented.

Curious if anyone here in the USA, has more knowledge on the Indonesian inks from Epson


Hmm.. funny that you said it.. August last year, I replaced one of my ink cartridge, and it has the same problem (not recognized).
Went to Epson official service center , and they exchanged it with working one, no question asked.
However I would think its a production batch problem, rather than Epson secretly plant a detector in the firmware.
The ink cartridge was from the same set I bought from Adorama (US). All is working except that one. (well.. maybe not, I still have one unopened  Tongue)
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