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Author Topic: Planning on MF plunge. Gear advice please (30-50K)  (Read 4338 times)
satybhat
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« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2013, 12:21:42 AM »
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Many thanks Eric, Doug, Fred and others.
just so we're clear, I'm actually in Australia at present, so the visit to Tasmania may not be once in a lifetime. having said that, I would want to invest in a scaleable system. I almost pulled the trigger on the 645D last year, before I got waylaid by a friend and decided to buy the Leica 24 lux and 90 cron instead. I wish I hadn't listened and gotten the pentax instead.
if 645D -2 is released, it may be worth looking at, from what I hear, the pentax lenses have lets just say larger tolerances, therefore more variation. but I have no first hand information.
Is there any reason you would choose the arca / cambo or other technicals for landscaping rather than an integrated phase 645DF+ ?
Or put it other wise, money being no concern (upto say 40K) what would your ideal kit be ?
THanks guys !!!!
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FredBGG
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« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2013, 12:42:34 AM »
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Hi Fred,

8x10" Polaroid still around? Nice to hear!

Best regards
Erik


No it's no longer produced. Impossible project is bringing it back somewhat. However I am doing some direct to paper shooting with the 8x10. Nice look.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 12:45:20 AM by FredBGG » Logged
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2013, 12:51:35 AM »
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Is there any reason you would choose the arca / cambo or other technicals for landscaping rather than an integrated phase 645DF+ ?

Well, there is currently no T/S lens for the 645D (although Pentax mentioned 2 years ago to me that they were looking into this), so that is one obvious value of Tech camera mounted standalone backs, unless you are willing to cope with the challenges of DoF stacking of course.

I personnally find shift of little value for landscape, but some photographers prefer to be able to correct for verticals in camera.

Cheers,
Bernard
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FredBGG
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2013, 12:56:22 AM »
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Many thanks Eric, Doug, Fred and others.
just so we're clear, I'm actually in Australia at present, so the visit to Tasmania may not be once in a lifetime. having said that, I would want to invest in a scaleable system. I almost pulled the trigger on the 645D last year, before I got waylaid by a friend and decided to buy the Leica 24 lux and 90 cron instead. I wish I hadn't listened and gotten the pentax instead.
if 645D -2 is released, it may be worth looking at, from what I hear, the pentax lenses have lets just say larger tolerances, therefore more variation. but I have no first hand information.

Pentax lenses are outstanding as are most current MF lenses.
The New Pentax 645 90mm 2.8 is also the only MF lens with image stabilization.

Another thing you should consider is weight and speed/ease of use.
The Pentax has more focusing points than Phase One or Hasselblad cameras and all three are far faster to use than a tech camera, especially when it comes to focusing.
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2013, 09:57:40 AM »
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if 645D -2 is released, it may be worth looking at, from what I hear, the pentax lenses have lets just say larger tolerances, therefore more variation. but I have no first hand information.

Their lenses are equal to Mamiya and, in some cases, better. You would need to go to a Leica S for something more consistent. There is a lot of information about which lenses work well with the 645D. You also have a choice of Pentax 67 lenses with an automatic aperture and you can fit Hasselblad lenses, but with only stop-down metering. I don't know anybody who has bothered with Hasselblad lenses and are satisfied with the Pentax 645 line. I use four Pentax lenses, one of the new lenses for the 645D, one of the AF lenses from the film era, and two manual focus lenses from the film era. All fine lenses.

Quote
Is there any reason you would choose the arca / cambo or other technicals for landscaping rather than an integrated phase 645DF+ ?

The optics may be a factor. Especially is you shoot wides. But that can also be more complex as you need to start thinking about lens cast and center filters.

Movements are another reason. One, for controlling perspective and the plane of focus and, two, for stitching panoramas if you want a flat field pano. I certainly do panoramas with my 645D, but a cylindrical projection works better in my opinion.

Technical cameras are fun to use. If photography is a hobby, buying something for kicks is just as valid as anything else.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2013, 10:50:45 AM »
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Hi,

At least for the time I'm not ready to invest in MFD, I have considered it from time to time. But there are a few buts. Economy is an important aspect but there are others.

I would say the Pentax is an interesting alternative, one I may actually consider. Obviously some of the lenses are very good. Lloyd Chambers has tested a lot of lenses and found a great variation. That said, most samples I have seen from the Pentax 645D were good and most reviews I read were glowing with praise. A concern with the Pentax may be the focal plane shutter, if you need short sync times. Vibration from the shutter may also be a problem, it definitively was a problem on the Pentax 67.

I'm not enthusiastic about Hasselblad, but I guess it is a decent offering.

My main interest would be technical cameras. Perhaps foremost the Hartblei HCam and the Alpa FPS, but I would say that both would be much more interesting with Live View. Both these cameras are built around a Mamiya FP shutter but they have reduced vibrations significantly, according Stefan Steib of Hartblei by using a very solid aluminium body and imbedding the shutter in a rubber bad.

Would I have 40K handy I guess they may stay in the bank, but those IQ backs are attractive and so are Rodenstock lenses.

Best regards
Erik

Many thanks Eric, Doug, Fred and others.
just so we're clear, I'm actually in Australia at present, so the visit to Tasmania may not be once in a lifetime. having said that, I would want to invest in a scaleable system. I almost pulled the trigger on the 645D last year, before I got waylaid by a friend and decided to buy the Leica 24 lux and 90 cron instead. I wish I hadn't listened and gotten the pentax instead.
if 645D -2 is released, it may be worth looking at, from what I hear, the pentax lenses have lets just say larger tolerances, therefore more variation. but I have no first hand information.
Is there any reason you would choose the arca / cambo or other technicals for landscaping rather than an integrated phase 645DF+ ?
Or put it other wise, money being no concern (upto say 40K) what would your ideal kit be ?
THanks guys !!!!
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Mr. Rib
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2013, 10:58:04 AM »
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I would seriously consider IQ2. If you can hold with the investment a bit, I would wait fot some tests o IQ2 and give it a test drive. Also see if Hasselblad anwsers in any way, but I wouldn't count on anything special..  Versatility is there (you can always swap a mount, use a tech camera etc) and, at least for me & for now only on paper, but still- IQ260 is the new king with it's claimed 1h exposure.
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satybhat
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2013, 02:43:15 PM »
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Well, there is currently no T/S lens for the 645D (although Pentax mentioned 2 years ago to me that they were looking into this), so that is one obvious value of Tech camera mounted standalone backs, unless you are willing to cope with the challenges of DoF stacking of course.

I personnally find shift of little value for landscape, but some photographers prefer to be able to correct for verticals in camera.

Cheers,
Bernard


No there is no TS on Pentax (yet). Even if they did, I'm not sure this would be a weather-sealed system. I would probably require tilting, perhaps panos as well, although am yet to work out sliding backs and the logistics or carrying the gear. Not quite interested in focus-stacking, and have never done any cylindrical projections. Am I correct in assuming that the technical cameras are not weather proof ?
So in terms of gearing up, I am thinking of renting the backs for now... (will likely travel for 6 weeks only in the remaining year) and am attracted to the phase backs, likely will try iq160 (not very confident with the colour casts issues with the iq180 - and may eventually gravitate towards iq2 160 due their long exposures. BUT would likely BUY the system and lenses this season.
So my question is: is there any technical system out there that is weather proof: (sea spray, light rain, -20*C ? ) or am I being too paranoid ? I hear lots of folks have travelled to crazy places with the technicals, but how does it fare with digital backs and actually shooting in inclement weather?
Thanks Bernard and others !
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2013, 03:04:00 PM »
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Easy enough to shoot tech cams in less than ideal weather. Have a small towel or rain cover. Cameras were used outdoors long before weatherproofing was invented.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2013, 03:32:36 PM »
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So my question is: is there any technical system out there that is weather proof: (sea spray, light rain, -20*C ? ) or am I being too paranoid ? I hear lots of folks have travelled to crazy places with the technicals, but how does it fare with digital backs and actually shooting in inclement weather?
Thanks Bernard and others !

Don't drop it into the ocean, and avoid shooting for extended periods in a monsoon, and you'll be fine.

When things get ugly a shower cap (a suggestion I picked up from Ken Doo / Guy Mancuso / Jack Flesher - I don't remember which) works remarkably well, and requires no pack weight/size.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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kdphotography
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« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2013, 04:20:30 PM »
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Aye, that be me, Doug.  You might not recall because you were either tied up and/or blindfolded at the time...   Grin

A small towel is nice to pack along with your tech cam, and you can simply throw it over the camera to cover from minor misting.  A small hotel shower cap works great with its light elastic band, holding onto your tech camera or DSLR.  There really is no such thing as a weather-proof camera, imho, just weather resistant cameras.  But don't be fooled---you'd be surprised how well a technical camera (or Phase DF) and a Phase One MFDB hold up in weather or harsh conditions.  And honestly, if conditions get that harsh and miserable out----that's when photography just isn't fun anymore.

Take a peek at my Cambo WRS and IQ180 in this blog article.  Images taken right in the wind and spray of Lower Proxy Falls in Oregon.  http://kendoophotography.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/photographing-oregon-with-the-cambo-wrs1050-and-phase-iq180/

ken   Smiley

p.s.  I've found that shooting with a technical camera really isn't much slower shooting landscapes for me than with the Phase DF or DSLR (yech).  I'm shooting with all manual settings anyway.  Extra minute to attach the cable release; another 15 seconds to shoot the LCC.  But using a technical camera is infinitely more enjoyable!
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Don Libby
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« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2013, 04:55:25 PM »
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I've shot my Cambo WRS in the surf, heavy fog, light and heavy rain/snow and beside a waterfall all without a problem.  So long as I thought it out ahead of time.  I carry a light-weight towel and a shower cap for just these times.  I have been caught in a blowing dust storm where I thought it worse than all the above. 

Remember the 6-P Principal - Proper Planning Prevent P-Poor Performance.

Don
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FredBGG
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« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2013, 05:33:00 PM »
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I've shot my Cambo WRS in the surf, heavy fog, light and heavy rain/snow and beside a waterfall all without a problem.  So long as I thought it out ahead of time.  I carry a light-weight towel and a shower cap for just these times.  I have been caught in a blowing dust storm where I thought it worse than all the above. 

Remember the 6-P Principal - Proper Planning Prevent P-Poor Performance.

Don


Or simply enjoy the freedom of movement of a fully weather sealed camera. Everything can be managed one way or the other, but it's worth considering the benefits of
a fully weather sealed system for peace of mind and the freedom that advanced weather sealing permits. Not having to pamper the camera.
Another consideration that needs to be made is turn around times for service on MF gear, especially if you are located in Australia.

Going back to speed.... speed makes a huge difference with the fast changing light of dawn and sunset through low clouds and fast changes of fog moving out or quickly changing weather.

How much difference in quality is there going to be between the fully weather sealed 40MP Pentax and a tech camera. There is a difference, but is it worth the weather and ergonomic difference.

Just to give this some proportion here is a comparison between an IQ180 and a Nikon d800E 36MP and smaller sensor than the Pentax 645D.

http://www.circleofconfusion.ie/d800e-vs-phase-one-iq180/

 
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bcooter
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« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2013, 05:47:46 PM »
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Hey Fred,

When you use your 645D what lenses do you use?

The newer designed digital based lenses or older film era lenses?

Did you get a chance to compare them, because I wonder if there is a difference?

The 645D looks like a great camera and I'm sure that your enjoying it.

I'd love to see some photos you shot from it.

I bet they're great.


BC
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mhecker*
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« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2013, 07:41:03 PM »
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BC,

If you want to see some images from the 645D look at my review here http://wyofoto.com/Pentax_645D/Pentax_645D_review_pt2.html

There are 100% crops available.
I shot through a Yosemite wet snow storm for the Tunnel View shoot.
The bottom line is the 645D is bullet proof and weather proof.
The old lenses can take it with a little care, I use part of a plastic bag and a rubber band to weatherproof them.

All people shooting Canon gear that day had the viewfinder fog, even the 1 series bodies.
Only my Pentax and David Brookovers Nikon D3x made it through the shoot.

Pentax doesn't pay me, although I would be happy to take there $$.   Grin

Miles
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bcooter
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« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2013, 07:45:26 PM »
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Nice,

I know ou shoot nature, but how is it on skintones?

Thanks

BC
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2013, 07:46:25 PM »
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Hey Fred,

When you use your 645D what lenses do you use?

The newer designed digital based lenses or older film era lenses?

Did you get a chance to compare them, because I wonder if there is a difference?

The 645D looks like a great camera and I'm sure that your enjoying it.

I'd love to see some photos you shot from it.

I bet they're great.


BC

Many of the film era lens are fine on the 645D. There are a few dogs like the 45mm, but there are plenty of fine optics in both the A and FA series lenses that work with the 645D very well.
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2013, 07:47:18 PM »
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Nice,

I know ou shoot nature, but how is it on skintones?

Thanks

BC

It does skin very well in the studio and in the real world.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2013, 08:10:42 PM »
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No there is no TS on Pentax (yet). Even if they did, I'm not sure this would be a weather-sealed system. I would probably require tilting, perhaps panos as well, although am yet to work out sliding backs and the logistics or carrying the gear. Not quite interested in focus-stacking, and have never done any cylindrical projections. Am I correct in assuming that the technical cameras are not weather proof ?
So in terms of gearing up, I am thinking of renting the backs for now... (will likely travel for 6 weeks only in the remaining year) and am attracted to the phase backs, likely will try iq160 (not very confident with the colour casts issues with the iq180 - and may eventually gravitate towards iq2 160 due their long exposures. BUT would likely BUY the system and lenses this season.
So my question is: is there any technical system out there that is weather proof: (sea spray, light rain, -20*C ? ) or am I being too paranoid ? I hear lots of folks have travelled to crazy places with the technicals, but how does it fare with digital backs and actually shooting in inclement weather?
Thanks Bernard and others !

As other have said, rain/snow is not really a major issue. Sea spray can be a bit more problematic since it typically occurs when there is significant wind blowing. I prefer to use a full blown transparent protection in such conditions, I sometimes do with a light cloth when it is just rain/snow without wind. But the main problem in those conditions is to keep the front glass of the lens clean of water. Depending on wind, this is sometimes next to impossible to achieve which forces you to work with wider apertures, think real hard about what you shoot when and makes panos a nightmare.

But anyway, the real problem with cameras and water mostly result from condensation following a change from cold to warm environments. That gets every single square mm of the camera/lens wet. You can reduce the impact by trying to seal the camera/lens in an air tight bag, but in my experience it often ends up being very wet anyway.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
tsjanik
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« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2013, 08:55:20 PM »
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Sounds like a tech camera is your interest, but a few comments about the 645D.  Iíve had my 645D since December 2010 ; like Milesí itís been in bad weather - snow, rain, blowing sand Ė not a hiccup.  The files are quite malleable when used at ISO 1-200, above noise appears, but is easily removed.  I have a large collection of Pentax 645 lenses and most are excellent with the 645D.  The 120mm A macro, which clearly out resolves the 645D sensor, might cost $400 (and Iíve never heard of a bad copy); other lenses are of similar quality.  I followed Lloyd Chamberís testing of the 645D very closely and supplied a few of the lenses he tested.  He found some excellent and some wanting.  I admire his intelligence and methodology, but he tested a random collection of used lenses (many 20+ -years-old).  Understandably, he tested the lenses in a very rapid manner, his business model depends on getting subscribers and Pentax is not a big market share.  Many of his tests were shots of the Stanford Memorial Church mosaic; a lovely mosaic, but the functional equivalent of the brick wall.   One of the lenses I sent him he found to be so-so, but I find it to be wonderful for landscape - very sharp, no flare and little CA, but I have the luxury of time in my tests.

No tilt or shift (yet), but an adapter for a 4x5 view camera is available (you need to use LF 90mm+ lenses).  You can also modify the excellent Pentax 67 55mm or 45 mm lenses with a shim in the lens mount for a fixed 5 degree tilt.

The D800 has driven Pentax lens prices are very low; they are an amazing bargain (not the new ones).  


« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 09:14:58 PM by tsjanik » Logged
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