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Author Topic: Phase One IQ260, IQ280, and Achromatic - 11 Things to Know  (Read 32004 times)
buckshot
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« Reply #180 on: April 03, 2013, 10:39:26 PM »
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Simple question: Should I trade in my P45+ for the new back?   Is it worth the 18k upgrade price?

Who's quoting you $18k? As far as I can tell the number is $22.5k for P45+ to IQ260 with a Classic Warranty - as long as the trade-in is done before the end of June.
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buckshot
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« Reply #181 on: April 04, 2013, 05:45:40 PM »
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I did find this post from Lance Schad over at GetDPI which, at least, doesn't contradict what I said above.

Also, am assuming the $18k is in USD - might not be of course...
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gerald.d
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« Reply #182 on: April 04, 2013, 11:30:36 PM »
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I did find this post from Lance Schad over at GetDPI which, at least, doesn't contradict what I said above.

Also, am assuming the $18k is in USD - might not be of course...

There was a considerable amount of confusion over the upgrade pricing when these backs were announced.

Apparently, this post does contain some WRONG numbers (example - the P65+>IQ280 price is not correct). This post also highlights the $22.5K for P45+>260. Given Lance's post is more recent, I would suggest it's more likely to be correct.
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lance_schad
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« Reply #183 on: April 05, 2013, 09:15:56 AM »
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The current price for an upgrade prices for P45+ to IQ260's are:

Classic:
Price of IQ260 CL: $36,990.0
Normal Price: $26,170.43
Promo Price (until 6/30/13) $22,564

Value Added:
Price of IQ260 VA: $40,990.00
Normal Price: $29,000.43
Promo Price (until 6/30/13) $25,003

Information on Warranty Differences

Hope this helps clear up any confusion.


Lance
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LANCE SCHAD - DIGITAL TRANSITIONS - Phase One,Leaf/Mamiya,Arca-Swiss,Cambo value added reseller
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Paul2660
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« Reply #184 on: April 05, 2013, 09:35:02 AM »
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Lance,

Thanks for the clarification.  As a Phase customer since March 2008, I am curious if the "Promo" price will become the "standard" price over time, especially if orders don't come in as fast would be hoped?

Also, per history, Phase has had two forms of special pricing, (pricing that is not controlled by a dealer yet)

1.  Promo prices when new equipment is announced, i.e. the excellent promo pricing that P65+ users received to move to a IQ180
2.  December promos, as it seems that in December of each year Phase tends to put a few products on a "special" price promo and this sometimes runs into Jan of the next year.

As I recall in Dec. of 2012 there was a "special" on refurbished P65+ backs, and later a special price on a P40+ with DF camar and 80mm lens.  I can see their reason to want to move the
refurb P65+ with the scope of the IQ260. 

Paul Caldwell
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Grischa Rueschendorf
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« Reply #185 on: April 05, 2013, 12:05:08 PM »
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Does P1 offer any crossgrade from 180 to 260? If so what's the ballpark figure?
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #186 on: April 05, 2013, 12:15:32 PM »
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P1 does not. Individual dealers may. We (Digital Transitions) will be offering cross grades for a limited number of clients. Pricing will depend on shot count, condition, warranty of your back and other factors. You can email or call us for details.
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Phase One IQ250 FAQ
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« Reply #187 on: April 05, 2013, 12:23:02 PM »
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P1 does not. Individual dealers may. We (Digital Transitions) will be offering cross grades for a limited number of clients. Pricing will depend on shot count, condition, warranty of your back and other factors. You can email or call us for details.

Why a limited number of clients? Still good that you offer this while Phase does not.
Seems to me a bad move by Phase as the clients that bought 180 backs should be treated with while gloves as they are
clients that bought the very top of the line. maybe they were worried about to many wanting to change and being overwhelmed.
Going from the 180 to a 260 should not be considered a "cross grade" Wifi alone is a significant upgrade and really the resolution difference between 80MP and 60MP
is not significant in practice.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 02:50:10 PM by FredBGG » Logged
Paul Ozzello
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« Reply #188 on: April 05, 2013, 12:34:28 PM »
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Any special upgrade paths from A12 to IQ260 ?

 Grin
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FredBGG
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« Reply #189 on: April 07, 2013, 07:31:11 PM »
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Quote
e: IQ2 + Wireless
by Drew Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:10 am

Tilman wrote:
This is not very customerfriendly.

I apologize but I do not quite understand?
A new model of any product is, in fact, a New Product. The IQ2 series is a newly designed unit, with new Hardware, new firmware and many alterations to improve upon the previous version.
This is the same path that any new product follows, improving upon previous designs. We have done this in the past with units like the P45 and then later the P45+. Both of these were 39mp Sensors but with several years of new technology improvements introduced in the latter. Aside from our own products, this is the nature of all systems. Last years BMW cannot simply be taken to the local dealer for the new engine, transmission, dash, sat nav, etc... it is necessary to trade in/purchase the new model.
Again, I apologize if you feel as though the release of our new IQ2 series is somehow conflicting with your previous purchase but there are certainly trade-in opportunities at your local dealer and Phase One provides guaranteed value protection on all of it's products. If you've purchased your IQ180 within the last 12 months, we will buy it back for 90% of your original purchase price... something that can't be said for the car dealerships of the world.

http://www.phaseone.com/en/FooterMenu/I ... ction.aspx
Kind Regards,
Drew
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So if anyone has an IQ180 that is under 12 months old Phase One will buy it back for 90% of the purchase price...

Maybe he mean't to say it will be valued at 90% of purchase price against the purchase of a new IQ280 at list price.
Probably a $ 5,000 ish upgrade compared to a straight street price purchase. For a $ 40,000 + back that's worth it if the Wifi feature
is important.

Hopefully there is a realistic option for those just over 12 months..... or more.
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Paul2660
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« Reply #190 on: April 07, 2013, 09:22:06 PM »
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What I want to know is when did the time frame change from 18 to 12 months.  I was on the Phase One site just a few weeks ago and it stated clearly 18 months. I started conversations with my dealer trying to figure what my "purchase price" was.  This was less than 2 weeks ago.  Either I was somehow on a older cached view of the Phase One site, or the number of months just dropped.   I am still within the 18 month time frame, but not 12.

It's never been made very clear what Phase One determines the actual purchase price to be. 

Since Phase does not publish list prices, I am trying to remember what the original purchase price of a IQ160 was back in Dec 2011.  It was around 36K or 39K, (there are plenty of dealers on that read this site, so if I am wrong, please let me know the old price)  before value add.  However if you traded in a used back say a P45+, your "purchase price" was adjusted by the trade in amount.  So a IQ160 with a P45+ traded in was around 25K before value add. 

I don't think Phase One is going to allow you the 90% based on the "list" price if you had a trade in as part of the buy.  They will give you 90% of the adjusted price after trade in i.e. 90% of 25K.  The value add issue is another problem also in trying to figure out if it will transfer.

I can't find the post that Fred is quoted by Tilman, but he appears to be a Phase One employee from New York.  I hope that Phase One will read this entire post and pick up on some of the frustration that the current pricing policy creates.   Please clarify what  you are giving back a full 90% of, the List price or adjusted price. There is huge difference here.  I also believe that most people who have a 180 class back, purchased that back via a upgrade of some type and did not pay full list. 

This whole "investment protection"  issue to me is not very well worded and needs to be spelled out in a more clearly. 

Paul Caldwell


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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #191 on: April 07, 2013, 09:38:44 PM »
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Hello Paul,

What you have written reminds me of a situation that happened in New Zealand some years ago.

The then CEO of Telecom New Zealand a lady by the name of Theresa Guttung said at a conference about Telecom NZ marketing was its policy was to keep its customer confused when it came to there pricing structure.

I get the feeling Phase One are implementing the same policy.

Cheers

Simon
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #192 on: April 08, 2013, 07:29:30 AM »
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There is something I don't end to get here or there. It's about prices.

If some camera nanufacturers are targetting both the high-end profesional sphere and the "wealphy dentists" amateurs as the refrain says, what's the Price point then?
What's 30.000 bucks for people who are making 300.000?

I'm not saying that the Price isn't important, but if the target is people who have more than enough to afford those equipments, then the Price question is pointless.

Making a paralel with motion, one can argue that Red brought Raw on the cheap and a small structure can successfuly use Epics, but the fact is that what I'm seeing here is
that were the money is (or where the money still is because you know the spanish situation...), they would use Arri Raw because cost isn't a concern. And there could be endless debates Red vs Arri etc etc...but for the people-structures who have
mediums, those questions are pointless, the relation Price/value is pointless, just the value counts. Nikon target is mass market, big volume. Others aren't targetting this.

And about the Nikon, how is the pro service in Nikonland? Because is not just about a camera performance isn't it?

Something even more absurd: An Hasselblad covered of diamonds would be ridiculously vulgar. But if you think about it, some nouveau riches would bite, but I don't think a Nikon covered of diamonds will interest them
because there isn't enough exclusivity-luxury-prestige in Brand's image involved. My point is that the brand's prestige counts and has a Price too, regardless if some chinese industry would produce something
better at 1/100th of the cost. Manolo Blahnik is not the same as Bally with the exception that both are suitable to walk.

To ilustrate my lack on understanding on the Price/value side, the other day I was on set (invited, not working in) with a "silly" co-production digital cinema. An "historical" serie Co-produced by the national teevee. It's never going to be projected in theaters but HD tv. There was no tripod under 5.000 bucks, there was no lens under 55.000 (and generaly cine lenses are so expensive that they work in rental only). What's the point on spending huge amount of money on out-fashionned productions that nobody will watch except our grand'mas ? They could have filmed with a Scarlet and cheap Nikon optics, or with a C300 and guarantee that no viewer would ever notice something. The only reasonable answer I have is that they do it because they can. Same happens in still imagery. If some people can afford ultra-expensive lenses or cameras, they will do it, even if one can proof that there is the same or better at 1/10th the cost. All that is very relative.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 10:18:02 AM by fredjeang2 » Logged
Rob C
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« Reply #193 on: April 08, 2013, 04:46:10 PM »
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To ilustrate my lack on understanding on the Price/value side, the other day I was on set (invited, not working in) with a "silly" co-production digital cinema. An "historical" serie Co-produced by the national teevee. It's never going to be projected in theaters but HD tv. There was no tripod under 5.000 bucks, there was no lens under 55.000 (and generaly cine lenses are so expensive that they work in rental only). What's the point on spending huge amount of money on out-fashionned productions that nobody will watch except our grand'mas ? They could have filmed with a Scarlet and cheap Nikon optics, or with a C300 and guarantee that no viewer would ever notice something. The only reasonable answer I have is that they do it because they can. Same happens in still imagery. If some people can afford ultra-expensive lenses or cameras, they will do it, even if one can proof that there is the same or better at 1/10th the cost. All that is very relative.


Television now, but maybe there is an idea at the back of their minds that shooting at high quality might provide alternative commercial outlets later on... Non?

Rob C
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #194 on: April 08, 2013, 06:25:34 PM »
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Television now, but maybe there is an idea at the back of their minds that shooting at high quality might provide alternative commercial outlets later on... Non?

Rob C

I don't think so Rob. It's more likely because those are big structures, highly trade-unioned, and operators-producers are used to work that way forever, until 5 o clock afternoon... It's the mammouth.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 06:28:55 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #195 on: April 08, 2013, 06:44:10 PM »
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"wealphy dentists"

great spelling mistake! Made me smile..... Sounds like a wealthy dentist missing a front tooth....
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #196 on: April 08, 2013, 07:58:29 PM »
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great spelling mistake! Made me smile..... Sounds like a wealthy dentist missing a front tooth....

 Grin It took me time to see where my mistake was. That "t"

The thing is that phoneticaly we don't have the "th" sound in french (it's like ph) and it's damn hard to remember.

Very true, it sounds like a dentist  missing a front tooth Grin
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narikin
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« Reply #197 on: April 13, 2013, 07:56:08 PM »
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I would love a straight answer what an IQ180 to IQ280 upgrade cost is?  or at least the ball-park figure.

My P65+ to IQ180 was an $8500 upgrade, (May 2011) with Value Added Warranty, so I can't believe that for this upgrade, which is the same exact sensor, the mentioned price of $14,000 is right, especially when Phase claim to give you an "Investment Protection Program".

If it is correct, then doubt I'll be alone in waiting it out for the upcoming CMOS chips to arrive in 2014.


 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 08:00:37 PM by narikin » Logged
Paul2660
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« Reply #198 on: April 13, 2013, 09:38:16 PM »
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One thing I have learned, the "investment protection policy" does not apply if you upgraded on your current back.  Example, if you own a IQ160 and you purchased it via a Upgrade say from a P65+ or P45+, then you don't qualify.  It's only for a situation where you paid list (or discounted list) for the back you own, which I believe is less common.  The math doesn't work anyway, since you would only be getting the 90% against your adjusted price (list subtract trade in).  I spoke to Phase (NY) directly on this last week.  It's a bit confusing but that is how it was explained to me.

The only price right now besides the list for a IQ260 which I believe is 36,900 (U.S) no value add, is the Cross grade pricing that Phase announced in March, i.e. IQ160 to IQ260, and so forth.  And as I understand, this pricing will go away as soon as the 260's start to ship.

Paul Caldwell


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Jozef Zajaz
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« Reply #199 on: April 14, 2013, 06:59:14 AM »
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There isn't in this announcement. That's all I can say for 100% sure.

No there won't be a iq240. They will continue selling the 140 though.
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