Resolve

[Morgan_Moore]

After twonking with various colour editors Im feeling this is the one... and it is free!
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve

Some basics
http://www.sammorganmoore.com/backlot/davinci-resolve-for-newbs-and-photoshop-ers

An image
http://www.sammorganmoore.com/backlot/resolve-interview-shot

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

Heard great things about it. Will try it soon myself. What monitor are you using?

[Morgan_Moore]

I use a 27 imac.

My choice of monitor is clear..

my work is not for broadcast (which is specced for 1997 CRT monitors that no end user has) it is for people who view online, mainly my client base who I assume are the mac-eratti

..so I use a similar monitor to them to grade

S

[Chris Sanderson]

Lovely example Sam. It made me envious enough that I am downloading the free version.

The DaVinci Resolve manual is a great place to start - quite comprehensive

[Pete_G]

Apart from being a good Colour Correction tool Resolve is really useful for creating "dailies" from RAW camera files such as RED and Alexa. It can create
Avid DNxHD mxf's and other file formats useful for offlining.

[Morgan_Moore]

Lovely example Sam. It made me envious enough that I am downloading the free version.

The DaVinci Resolve manual is a great place to start - quite comprehensive

I hope you enjoy it.

It can be a bit of a tangle to start - seems like you can only work on files within its 'root' directory etc

As for the manual - its OK but quite heavy - Ive tried to outline the basic stuff I would do with a still image!

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

I use a 27 imac.

My choice of monitor is clear..

my work is not for broadcast (which is specced for 1997 CRT monitors that no end user has) it is for people who view online, mainly my client base who I assume are the mac-eratti

..so I use a similar monitor to them to grade

S

Makes perfect sense to me!

[UlfKrentz]

+1 for resolve. Excellent point to start:

http://www.rippletraining.com/categories/avid-adobe-davinci-courses/davinci-resolve-products/davinci-resolve-9.html

Cheers, Ulf

[Chris Barrett]

Morgan,

One of the great things about Resolve is how you can work shadows, midtones and hilights separately.  If you work with scopes, particularly the RGB Parade you can see which channels clip or crush first.  My typical process is to neutralize the shadows using the RGB offset, then neutralize the hi-lights via the 3-way color wheels, this will get rid of color cast in the hilights without the need for any qualifiers or power windows.  I think this workflow is so valuable, I might make a little video for you guys.

CB

[Chris Sanderson]

I think this workflow is so valuable, I might make a little video for you guys.

CB

 Yeah! That would be great!

[fredjeang2]

Hi guys.

Just passing-by to say HI to my Lu-La friends here. An interesting thread in wich I think my recent experience might be usefull for some.

Resolve is a great software and a standart in many production houses of all sizes.

I'd like to talk about the color correction first. I've been into heavy training-clases those months and recently talked with some old folks color artists.
They gave me tricks I can share and indeed saves a lot of time in the process.

As C.Barrett mentionned, you may want to work with the RGB parade. That's a key point for starting. What I was doing in the past is that I was "jumping" into the color wheels too early.

Instead of that, the very first point is, with your RGB parade enabled, work with the channels levels.
R G and B. (I'm talking about primary CC here of course).
No color wheels yet at this stage. The thing is that you'd add (or sustract) the percentage of RGB in each of the output channel until you reach the closest results you want to acheive.
Then, yes, work with the wheels for fine tuning.
The fact is that this technique of working first with the channels is the only real efficient techniques when it comes to critical grading, specially when you're facing a strong dominance issue in the raw material.
But not only that, it's the very roots of the color correction process, like the base of the building.
As it's not visual like the wheels, it requires a good understanding of color but it really really speeds the process and settles a strong base for fine tunning and get to a more creative stage.
Once you've worked with the channels, you drive the color app where you want it to go, not the color app going where it wants to.

About Resolve, I have some complains. (you knew I was going to bark didn't you...)

First complain: It's good, but still requires a roundtrip. No matter if easy, still is a roundtrip like AE is with PP. And IMO, this is a type of workflow that really needs to disppear, and will disppear.
Now that Smoke 2013 is at less than 4.000 bucks (yes they cutted 11.000), it's to date the only high-end software in the industry that really is a game changer in the sense that it's the only all-in-one
app capable to operate at the highest demanding levels as well as suitable for some indy and small prod-houses. This is the future, Resolve is already the past. If not because I'm all on PCs and we still claim for a PC version of Smoke that never comes, I would have switched today.

Second complain: The interface is toyish and the nodes are badly implemented IMO.

Third complain: it's a computer performance eater software. I results to me amazing that I can put an all Nuke 6 app into a old laptop and one of the most advanced compositing application this planet has ever seen works perfectly fine without a crash while Resolves sucks so much power just for a color correction tool. Something's not good the way the engineers have designed the program. It's over complex, sucks too much power for what it really does.

Having to jump from the editor to Resolve is IMO unnecessary for 99,99% of the tasks.
I'm working now on Media Composer Symphony 6.5 and they did a huge improovement in the CC area. To the point that the need for a dedicated app is reduced a lot. And in fact, if I had to do a roundtrip, I'd prefer to use Nuke 1000 hundreds time for CC, even not being a dedicated color app, the power of Nuke in terms of color still results pretty much amazing.

To conclude, if I was a small prod, I would not use Resolve but just stay in a solid editor like MC6/PP+speedgrade or in the high-end/feature film/indy, I'd use a Smoke or even a Nuke app in some cases. But specialized softwares that require roundtrip between apps just to do bloody CC is the past.

I'm very curious to have informations about the Speedgrade integration in Adobe suite. If the tendency is really towards an all-in-one super app like Smoke, I think it's worth to consider. If some of you have info on speedgrade, I'd read it with interest.


Cheerrs to all of you.

Fred.

----few notes on the linked img----

A visual example of the use of RGB parade with RGB channels (I think in resolve it was called RGB "mixer" or so) before deciding your blacks, mids and whites in the color wheels, talks better than words.
I used on purpose a conflictive image of my own footage archive that I started to prepare for creative CC later. The time of correcting this stage is less than one minute.  

(the window enabled in my example is the green channel, I was a bit lazy to put the 3 but you got the idea)

You can see that the woman has a strong yellow light in her chin-neck and prolongated in her hair in a diagonal line, that the wheels are not able to neutralized properly. What you gain on one side you'd loose it on the other.
That's because there was an undesirable bulb just pointing there. The RGB channel blending stage was able to neutralized it without the need of secondary CC giving, yes, a colder temp but at the same time an image that is more workable later if you want to regain some warm (or not). It's noticable also that the transitions are smoother in her neck. Then, the presence of color noise (green) because of the underexposure is largely cleaned and will look way cleaner in the delivery image.

What is important to keep in mind is this: when in the color wheels, I used exactly the same reference points for the blacks, mids and whites in the  shadows, mids and HL wheels. And you see that the results of neutralization-coloring are completly differents animals. It shows the impact of the previous stage of RGB levels.

The second image shows the impact of the RGB channels instead of using a GAIN control. In this case I tricked differently the % of each channel but the idea remains the same and look at the RGB parade. If you try to work on the lumi using a gain control or even worse, a brightness control, the results won't be the same at all and what will happen is that trying to fix the underexposure you'd end with a degradated footage (this isn't Raw video).  As you can see, I exagerated on purpose the blue channel on the mids because it's easy to identify on the RGB parade. You can see the green and blue channel boosted on the wall. This image would obviously need a different tunning, but you see how the values are doing the job when it comes to fixing an underexposed footage with minimum of image damage. Look at the talent tooth. Before it was like an add for a 50 years heavy smoker tobacco damage campaing, now her tooth are walking towards an add for Colgate. Not only that, the tones now will be way easier to isolate in SCC. So you could just work on her skin and regain better skintone without affecting the tooth and the wall, nor the air. On the first image it would be impossible.
It shows the importance of the RGB parade + the RGB levels at the very roots of the CC process.

----add note----

The other very important use of the RGB channel blender, is when you want to do special effects. Like for example simulating the look of a vintage degradated film. You know those unrestored green or magentas 70's movies with the Coot's car (general Lee) etc...well, that's within your RGB levels but using unnormal proportions that you'll have the most convincing results. That's exactly what do some applications like Look etc...that give to the user some presets for vintage KodaK ____ (put your reference here). There is no secret engineering behind it at all and IMO, instead of using pre-cooked apps, it's always better to understand the proceses and tools involved in CC.

Hope I haven't been too long nor too boring.

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

Hi Fred, welcome back! I knew you'd return.

First complain: It's good, but still requires a roundtrip. No matter if easy, still is a roundtrip like AE is with PP. And IMO, this is a type of workflow that really needs to disppear, and will disppear.
Now that Smoke 2013 is at less than 4.000 bucks (yes they cutted 11.000), it's to date the only high-end software in the industry that really is a game changer in the sense that it's the only all-in-one
app capable to operate at the highest demanding levels as well as suitable for some indy and small prod-houses.

Actually After Effects does all that and more, with perfect integration with Prelude (On set), Premiere, Audition, Photoshop, and most of the web-based apps. In this regard it has no equal, for any work on this planet. You can even edit with it if you want!

Second complain: The interface is toyish and the nodes are badly implemented IMO.

Color grading apps are built to interface with hardware systems, similar to audio DAWs. It is a fast way of working proven by the rigors from the days of tape in broadcast.

The algorithms are pretty basic - there's only so much you can do with color.

Third complain: it's a computer performance eater software. I results to me amazing that I can put an all Nuke 6 app into a old laptop and one of the most advanced compositing application this planet has ever seen works perfectly fine without a crash while Resolves sucks so much power just for a color correction tool. Something's not good the way the engineers have designed the program. It's over complex, sucks too much power for what it really does.

The developers at Nuke are geniuses beyond compare. I don't use Nuke any more, but I find its color grading interface better than any grading app. The only thing better than Nuke is AE.

I'm very curious to have informations about the Speedgrade integration in Adobe suite. If the tendency is really towards an all-in-one super app like Smoke, I think it's worth to consider. If some of you have info on speedgrade, I'd read it with interest.

I would avoid Speedgrade for now, even though it is as capable as Resolve. The future belongs to Speedgrade, as soon as Adobe integrates it with Bridge, the playback engine and so on. At $50 a month, how can one compete?

In the end, most editing and grading systems are already better than the average person using them. The basic tools are all there, and the only thing they can do is make it faster with wider codec support. Adobe has a huge lead in three areas: After Effects, Photoshop and Flash (which is making a comeback). On the other hand, Autodesk has Flame, but for how long?

An interesting experiment - until last year, I was still using CS3 on an old Core 2 Duo laptop to edit DSLR video in 1080p, with no lags whatsoever. In that respect, CS3 runs much faster than CS6!

There's a reason Adobe made CS2 free and not CS3.

[fredjeang2]

Thanks for this informative post  Sareesh.

I do think too than Adobe is the future, if they succeed
In integration, avoiding any sort of roundtrip between pp, audition, speedgrade and ae,
and it's not guessing that they will.

Smoke is a bomb at 4000 bucks, but  learning this super-app
Can be intimidating. As you know, Autodesk is very much
Like Avid, it's the Autodesk way. Some folks in the C.cow
Mentionned that they progressed in this respect and the
App is less a specialist app. But the learning Curve is still serious.
Adobe will end to cover the demand.

I totally agree with you on both Nuke and the CC in nles.
Nuke is suprisingly extremely capable when it comes ti grading,
Even not being directed to this task.

About the CC tools in nles, your absolutly right. People jump
Into resolve or scratch without enough mastering of the
Color process and ignore that most robust nles have already the
Tools necessary inside. They end in annoying workflows that looks
More pro but in fact an experienced color artist would
Do wonder within the nle. The only reason to use a dedicated app
Is the confort, not that much the magic capabilities. Put
An artist-color device on symphony and you got the power
Without the need of any roundtrip.
Being good at color, like anything, takes years of practise,
And no app will solve the lack of knowledge. If you can be
Very good with your nle, jump to resolve. Not jumping into a
Dedicated app without really knowing the story.

I see that you are an ae fan.learning AE is in my plan of studdy.
I'll start soon.

Cheers.

 

[fredjeang2]

Hi, have some fresh infos.

This afternoon, I received a call from a color artist who works in Resolve but was evaluating Smoke 2013 because of the all-in-one holly grail.

(as you know all, the tendency is that editors are doing color and comp, colorists are asking for editorial tasks etc... and the all-in-one super app is really the future)

The guy is known in the city for giving Da-Vinci and Mistika advanced workshops. I asked him if he could give me his impressions about the Autodesk release because it represents a real interest at the new price.

So, can Smoke 2013 replace a Resolve for color grading? the short answer is: no. Not for a colorist.

the biggest complains where:  it lacks a mask generator within the color editor. (connect FX seems to be a little painfull). The tracker is a 2D and not a 3D one. You can only display the color wrapper output separatly from the color correction, they do not mix, ??!! that's really a stupid implementation indeed. (sorry for my french-cow translation to english but that's the best I can).
note: for a best explaination in proper english, there is a thread in the Cow just about that: http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/365/16

To date, I can think of 3 systems that are designed as an all-in-one super app.
- Smoke
- Avid DS
- Adobe suite

Really, I beleive that Adobe will be the way to go, as Sareesh mentionned, once the roundtrip with Speedgrade will be integrated. I know it sounds  
"cheap" and maybe hurt the snobbiest within this industry, but the fact is that Adobe is really doing well the "homeworks" and going to win this market from the bottom up to the high-end.

Avid DS is really a great tool, (symphony alone in wich working with EXR files for ex is a pain in the ass. (I mean by that a workflow that have to be done the old way)), conforms in 2 or 4K, etc...but in the end, Adobe is going to be the most complete super-app with the fraction of the cost of Avid and Autodesk.


For the time being, Resolve is probably the very best solution when it comes to grading and none of the all-in-one alternatives can bring to date such a good tool for color correction fully integrated
into one superApp.

So, yeah...Resolve is not the future IMHO but it's the best present in what CC in concerned.

Cheers.

[Chris Barrett]

Drag.  I do love Resolve, it's just the roundtrip that's mildly annoying.  It does actually maintain a RAW workflow better than the SpeedGrade route, I believe.  As I understand it, when you send a project from Premier to SG, it renders DPX's first.  Lame.  I talked to the guys at Assimilate about Scratch, which is also all in one.  They admitted though, that their package is not as strong an NLE as Premier nor as good at grading as Resolve.

Hmm..

[fredjeang2]

Oh yeah, Scratch. Glad you mentionned it.

I've been using the trial during a month time ago. Great peice of software.

You're right, Scratch is not just a Color app but much more. However, I wouldn't call all-in-one. I mean by all-in-one real editorial capabilies as a Media Composer, real CC as a Resolve, real comp as an AE or Nuke, asset management, finish...Scratch covers some of
those areas but not suitable for all. but yes, it's much more than just color. I like Assimilate and their style and wish they'll be arround for many more years.

Yes, my view when I called Resolve an app from the "past", is exactly about the roundtrip. Made within the "old way" workflow. But Resolve is maybe the most interesting tool for CC at the moment.
Personaly I detest the interface style, but that's so personal that it's really pointless if the app is good it's good, even if they'd paint the buttons in pink. No, the real hassle are the roundtrips.

   

[Morgan_Moore]

Good to see everyone chime in.

CB - Id like a little vid!

BTW I use scopes all of the time.

One thing is a lack of 'click WB'

If you think this would be a useful feature (I DO) I would suggest people personally contact the design team and pressure for same as an upgrade!

S

[fredjeang2]

One of the great things of Resolve is that, roundtrip appart, it works brillantly when it comes to deal with LUTs.

Dealing with Alexa's files without roundtrip is a pain in the ass because of the Log C. So in my case I have to generate the LUT for Nuke from Arri web site
and...guess what... an undesirable roundtrip between Symphony and Nuke. You can't imagine how much I love that.

I could just passed the Nuke or Resolve step and manually apply a "guessing" LogC-to-Rec709 correct, but it's painfull.

When those all-in-one-apps will finally simplify the workflows?

edit: There aren't a lot of Avid users in this forum but a usefull link for working with Alexa Log-C on MC can be downloaded here as a bin (files for Windows and Mac): http://community.avid.com/forums/post/598691.aspx
There are 4 flavours and quite a time saver.  

[fredjeang2]

I have a great link.

Before in this thread about Resolve I was pointing the fact that IMHO, most NLEs have the fundamental tools to really acheive almost (if not all) looks.

It's not that I think that working on a Resolve app is pointless, not at all. But yes I've seen many guys, since the simplified app is free, jumping into it (with another learning curve as the cherry on the cake)
without having mastered the fundaments within more simple, or less specialized, app like a NLE.

It reminds me of the pixel race and now we got all that BS coming also into video land. I hear more and more folks arround me: I need 4K, without Resolve I can't really grade, those NLEs are
too limited when it comes to CC (and they are, but for who?)

So, the following link is really refreshing. It's Dale Grahn's tool for training (color timer). Search who is Dale Grahn and you'll see that we are talking about one of the superstar artist with nothing less than impressive curriculum in the cine industry. The very interesting thing is that it's about matching what he did from the raw footage but with just one limited CC tool. No mask, no curves, no wheels, no 3D track, no scopes, no blending modes but extremely limited tools. And, oh yeah, very important: no sliders.
No marketing brand nor magic property softwares. No excuses.

The app costs 4 bucks for the ipad and there are included 20 video tutos from the Master. Greatly done Mister Grahn !

I find this exercice extremely valuable for people who are digging into CC as well as a kick in the ass for the "need" high-end apps; and in fact for all of us because it reminds that we can do a lot with very little.

link: http://www.dalegrahncolor.com/  

Enjoy.