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Author Topic: Nikon's price gouging  (Read 9747 times)
AFairley
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« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2013, 12:33:30 PM »
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Um, Russ?  There is no rationing of any kind in your example.  Straw man argument.
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2013, 12:50:45 PM »
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Have you noticed that our forum software is long overdue for an upgrade? Looks like it is misbehaving worse than usual as of lately; it stutters, it sputters, it mixes and matches, seemingly at random, quotes and related comments. Take, for instance, the latest example:

I can swear this is how it was meant to be:

And yet, our poor, old forum software assigned the comment to a rather unrelated thread... go figure.

And it'll leave out the quoted bits in my requote, but..... the thing that some folks (or one folk) seem to have missed was the graemlin I inserted at the end of my original comment intending humour.   Wink  Sort of like that.   Cheesy  Or that.  Oy.   Roll Eyes
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RSL
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« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2013, 02:09:00 PM »
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Um, Russ?  There is no rationing of any kind in your example.  Straw man argument.

Tell that to family B.
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AFairley
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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2013, 03:33:48 PM »
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Tell that to family B.

If the camera store has 10 cameras and you get to the store before me and buy the last one, that's not rationing.  That's family A, they just happened to get there before family B did.  Now if everyone has to line up to get into the store to get the cameras and theres a long line, that is rationing because queuing is recognized as a form of rationing (because some people won't want to wait).  Other forms are rationing would be lottery, limiting number of purchases, allocating by name/license plate/etc. (I don't know if you remember the odd-even days in the 1970s oil crisis), and so on.  But I digress, we were arguing about whether some forms of rationing are more or less socially desirable.  Following your logic, the scarcity of organs for transplant should be dealt with by an unregulated market, so the person who can pay the most goes to the front of the line.  Stuff like shelter, gasoline, water and food may not be exactly like organs, but we should be able to agree that they are essential goods.

And apologies to everyone else for the thread hijack.   Shocked
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RSL
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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2013, 07:18:27 PM »
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If the camera store has 10 cameras and you get to the store before me and buy the last one, that's not rationing.  That's family A, they just happened to get there before family B did.

During WW II I was a teen, and doing all the photography I could.. There was a shortage of film and every couple weeks the local camera shop would get a quota. Since film was rationed and price-controlled, getting there early was imperative. If prices had been allowed to rise to take account of the fact film was scarce (inflexible supply) people who were older and more likely to make good use of the film would have bought it. Instead, I, a rank beginner, was able to get up early and take film away, even from the local pros. It's the same thing as family A, who needed three rooms like they needed a hole in the head, but since prices were "controlled" it was no sweat. Actually they weren't doing anything wrong. They were just doing what comes naturally when the stupid government gets into the middle of commerce. The problem is all around us, but invisible to those most affected.
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Rob C
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« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2013, 03:44:34 AM »
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And it'll leave out the quoted bits in my requote, but..... the thing that some folks (or one folk) seem to have missed was the graemlin I inserted at the end of my original comment intending humour.   Wink  Sort of like that.   Cheesy  Or that.  Oy.   Roll Eyes
Posted by: BobFisher 
Insert Quote
Well, Rob, when you start living in the 21st century rather than reveling in the alleged 'good ol' days' of the 60s and 70s, then it may be worthwhile having a conversation.  You do know that Heath is no longer PM, right?




No gremlin used there in your reply; simply blunt opinion reflecting the true sense and sentiment of the original post.

Rob C


 
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2013, 07:30:52 AM »
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Or reflecting the completely humourless and inane response from you, Rob.
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degrub
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« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2013, 07:38:00 AM »
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Gentlmen,
What do you have to prove ?
Frank
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Rocco Penny
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« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2013, 07:54:55 AM »
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Warriors both!

Oft wondered about the unearned increment-
How does it make sense that everyone rich and poor,
is usually about a paycheck or two from disaster?
Because prices on everything go up to suit the people (you and me)
and their sense of entitlement.
You want to hear of an entitlement program I want to see dropped?
Done away with completely?
Equity and the time value of money.
The most ridiculous scam in the history of mankind.
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WalterEG
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« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2013, 01:12:47 PM »
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Bravo Rocco!
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2013, 01:20:33 PM »
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Bravo Rocco!

I might concur, if only I knew what you guys are talking about.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 05:55:43 PM by Slobodan Blagojevic » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2013, 05:28:09 PM »
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Well this topic certainly took a strange turn. lol
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Rob C
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« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2013, 05:59:00 AM »
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Warriors both!

1.  Oft wondered about the unearned increment-
How does it make sense that everyone rich and poor,
is usually about a paycheck or two from disaster?
2.  Because prices on everything go up to suit the people (you and me)
and their sense of entitlement.
You want to hear of an entitlement program I want to see dropped?
Done away with completely?
3.  Equity and the time value of money.
The most ridiculous scam in the history of mankind.



1.  Rocco, you are simply mistaken. The poor may well be a couple of pay-days away from disaster, but you have led a very sheltered life if you think the rich are paddling in the same canoe.

Come over here for a while and you’ll see villas, yachts, private aircraft and all of the toys you can imagine. Many yachts are up for sale, and some are for sale because of cash-flow, but many are also on the market because the owners want to upgrade. What you notice in that industry is that the middle has vanished. Some small ski boats still sell and so do the big boats, but the medium ones, the "middle-class’s" toys are dead in the water or, usually, rotting up on the hard, uncleaned and virtually abandoned until happier times… There used to be four yards on these islands building the traditional fishing boat: not one exists today.

2.  Prices go up because incomes usually go up. From my own memory of the 50s I get the distinct impression, in the UK at least, that prices remained fairly stable until it became fashionable for women to get work outwith the factory-grade jobs. There was a wartime legacy of women in factories because of the needs to retain production during WW2; when the men lucky enough to come back alive tried to get their normal jobs back, they found them filled by many of those women. That created all sorts of labour problems, and one result was to keep female pay lower than male in a move that suited both employers and the concept of the ‘earning male’. Consequently, prices in the shops stayed fairly level for a while, aimed at the ability of a single-earner family to meet those prices, until all the building reconstruction and burgeoning industrial activity let merchants see that more money was available to spend, and surprise! up went prices!

Where did that drive many families? Into the ‘choice’ factor women had, their Shakespearian moment of ‘to work or not to work’ being taken away, the new option being work or the family goes hungry. So, every family (within the lower orders) now had two breadwinners: two salaries to pay for the family fridge, the washing machine. Why price them the same any longer?

3.  So how would you expect to be renumerated for your own services? Be given a chicken? The guy with the degree earn the same as the guy with no education? That happens already when there is no new employment; does it make you or anyone else any the happier or better off? I can understand a certain sense of perverted pleasure in the downfall of someone better skilled than oneself, but that hardly makes such situations right. If it did, what would it serve anyone to spend years of their lves in the pursuit of learning? And without that learning, we’d still be living in caves. Imagine! No Internet, no LuLa!

:-)

Rob C

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Rocco Penny
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« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2013, 10:44:54 AM »
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I don't think Nikon is price gouging.  The price of everything has risen. 1 word-gas
A savvy buyer can score incredible deals on used gear.  Sometimes barely used with original stickers,
for a fraction of gearing up w/similar new- Think of the new/used market on cars and such
I think M9's are a few G's used-[ 7xxx shutter count(IIRC)]
It's what made me think of TVOM        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_value_of_money
So nah, the condition of an individual compared to others isn't a beef I have.
After all, I have lived a very sheltered existence in the 8th largest economy in the world at ground zero of such enormous capital accumulation as to make it nearly unlivable to any but the best funded.
My best isn't that far from my worst...
Everything on the line-fabulous wealth or abject poverty- you don't understand-
This is the land of milk and honey,
too bad everybody already ripped everybody else off,
we could have everything we ever dreamed of.
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Rob C
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« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2013, 12:00:12 PM »
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  The price of everything has risen. 1 word-gas



Strange, then, how my last fuel bill, for standard diesel, was at 1.502 euros a litre. You pay nothing like that in the States, but our prices for Photoshop in Britain/Spain seem to be pretty much pound for dollar with those in the USA...as for cars, you should see what cars cost here. The second-hand price of cars in Spain is anything but low; up to a certain age, you are also obliged to pay a tax on selling them, as I know from when I sold my Escort. Fortunately, at 12 or 13 years it was just out of the hands of the taxman. Tax when you buy the mother, more when you have to sell it! Just wait: air contains gasses - they'll think of a way to tax those too!

Few but the really rich trade cars every year or two now; my Fiesta is just two, and last year I went back to the Ford dealer to see what it would be worth against something else. He told me to forget it: when the Fiesta is three years old it'll fetch the same as it would now; enjoy the three years.

So no, it isn't just gas. Gas is traded internationally and prices are clear; what's not always so clear is the huge percentage some governments like to levy on it in order to keep one part of the country happy on freebies whilst milking the other part that produces the wealth in the first place.

Rob C
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KLaban
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« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2013, 02:27:38 PM »
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Hell, from where I'm sitting Nikon prices look like real bargains.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2013, 03:08:49 PM »
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Hi,

Yes, but you need consider the whole system before taking a plunge. I was considering to switch to Nikon when the D800 arrived, it would be around 10000€, but I decided to stay with Sony. My main concern was really that Sony lacked a sophisticated camera with live view.

The new Sony Alpha 99 has some great features.

Live view! Live View! Live View! I missed that for four long years.
Three hardware presets, no menu choices just rotate knob. For me this is worth a lot!
Antishake handled by presets. No more antishake when shooting on tripod.

I don't say it's a perfect camera, or that it is better than Nikon, Zeiss, Hasselblad, Canon or a Holga, just that those features make my picture making easier and more enjoyable.

Best regards
Erik


Hell, from where I'm sitting Nikon prices look like real bargains.
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KLaban
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« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2013, 05:16:25 PM »
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Erik, try as I might I can't love any of them. Nikon, Canon, Sony, I pick them up and want to put them down again, they all leave me cold.
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Rob C
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« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2013, 05:27:54 PM »
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Hell, from where I'm sitting Nikon prices look like real bargains.


Yes, from the UK they do.

When I got rid of my 24mm-70mm G Nikkor I bought a 2.8/180mm ED AF Nikkor - the only AF one I own but never use in AF. I ended up paying more for it than the zoom I was trying to get rid of, but without making a new buy, the dealer (a wholesaler, even!) wouldn't deal. The price? €1475.86 which seems to be about double the UK price for the AF version. The older manual version seemed unobtainable. As it was more expensive in the UK than the AF version in the UK, perhaps just as well!

So who's to blame? Nikon in Spain, hidden Spanish taxation? You never find out - you just have to pay.

From that experience I started to buy expensive stuff by post from London. The wholesaler closed the Mallorcan branch and the Barcelona main depot didn't give a shit when I 'phoned them about something else... I miss the old local camera shop in Scotland where the chap knew his stuff.

Rob C
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KLaban
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« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2013, 05:42:38 AM »
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So who's to blame? Nikon in Spain, hidden Spanish taxation? You never find out - you just have to pay.

Rob, we've probably been here before, but why do you have to pay?

We've recently bought a Lumix lens for Viv. Bricks 'n mortar outlets here in the UK listed it at £995 but we eventually bought it online for £695. Most of my photographic purchases are made online for the same reason.

Why pay more?
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