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Author Topic: Macbook Pro retina or Lenovo W530  (Read 12108 times)
Jazzr2
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« on: March 05, 2013, 07:47:19 PM »
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I'm on the fence regarding the best laptop for me. On one hand I'm more of a PC user and what I like about the W530 is the 97% Adobe RGB screen. On the other hand the Retina display is tempting. OS aside, I get the feeling that working on photos might be better on the Lenovo because I work in ProPhoto and I'm concerned about making color or tonal corrections in less than am Adobe RGB colorspace. It seems that sharpening and local contrast adjustments may be better on the Retina. Any words of advice or experience? Thanks!!!
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2013, 10:32:42 PM »
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Not for nothing, but I would NEVER do any final color/tone work on ANY laptop display–I don't care who makes it. You'll want to look into getting a second display that has optimal color...something like an NEC Spectraview (my choice) or an Eizo (which I don't use). A laptop display is not the same...
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 01:12:11 AM »
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I recently reviewed a W530 here, and specification wise it's remarkable how similar their hardware is.  I'd rate their build quality pretty much even, looks go to Mac, function/speed even, keyboard to W530, touch pad to W530, screen/color to W530, availability of Msata devices to W530, ports to W530 if yo consider USB3 is everywhere now and TB is still rather exclusive.  I'd even rate Win7/OSx pretty much even if you're not a fanboy one way or the other.  Cost to the W530 also.  It's surprising just how good this particular laptop is.
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Graham Clark
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2013, 09:05:51 PM »
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I'm on the fence regarding the best laptop for me. On one hand I'm more of a PC user and what I like about the W530 is the 97% Adobe RGB screen. On the other hand the Retina display is tempting. OS aside, I get the feeling that working on photos might be better on the Lenovo because I work in ProPhoto and I'm concerned about making color or tonal corrections in less than am Adobe RGB colorspace. It seems that sharpening and local contrast adjustments may be better on the Retina. Any words of advice or experience? Thanks!!!

The retina display has a higher pixel density than any larger display on the market, and it has 300dpi+, which means that you can more accurately determine the pre-press quality than you would be able to with a normal hi-resolution display panel. I'd highly recommend doing accurate color work for pre-press on one of these machines.

the real advantage of the retina macbook pro from my perspective is:

- display
- hardware quality
- wireless gigabit
- thunderbolt I/O
- 6GB/s SSD interface for 450MB read/write speeds

Graham
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 09:11:11 PM by Graham Clark » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2013, 11:15:32 PM »
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The retina display has a higher pixel density than any larger display on the market, and it has 300dpi+, which means that you can more accurately determine the pre-press quality than you would be able to with a normal hi-resolution display panel. I'd highly recommend doing accurate color work for pre-press on one of these machines.

the real advantage of the retina macbook pro from my perspective is:

- display
- hardware quality
- wireless gigabit
- thunderbolt I/O
- 6GB/s SSD interface for 450MB read/write speeds

Graham
The W530 also has the SATA III/6gbps interface, both SATA and mSATA. 

For hardware quality to be an advantage it must be better, in what ways?  In every way I can determine they're remarkably similar. I do think design goes to the Mac's, but that's not quality.  And some like basic black.. Smiley

WiGig isn't yet a reality, which would be a gig on a single channel.  Manufacturers have used MIMO, adding bandwidth across multiple bands to 'add-up' bandwidth, with some over 1 gig, and Apple MBP's and the Airport Extreme can do this.  But the W530 does virtually the same thing and with a tri-band router you can add a third channel with added speeds of 1.75g.. Not bad, but in reality they're much the same with MIMO configs (through Centrino selection) being the only real edge either way.

It's interesting to note the new Retina has both USB3 (though half as many as the W530) and Thunderbolt now.  Nice!  An advantage for sure, though I'm not sure many are choosing to pay the price to benefit from Thunderbolt.

Tell me about the Retina.  Personally I don't see any advantage to my user experience or my photography with this much resolution on a small display, small could probably be defined as 22 inches and smaller for me personally.  Last time I looked Adobe didn't support Retina, do they now?  And you're saying prepress color is more accurate on a Retina laptop screen than a desktop display we'd normally use for color such as an Eizo or NEC?  And you're saying this advantage comes into play at 300dpi?  Can you describe how?  I fully support quality gamut friendly notebooks for road use because sometimes it's all I have available, and sometimes I can get a lot of the processing done on the road with minimal touching up necessary on a desktop.. but I work much slower on small monitors, a desktop is far faster.  And whether or not I'm viewing at 200 or 300.. not much difference in my accuracy.  Does anyone think we'll see Retina resolutions on desktop monitors soon? 
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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2013, 11:31:04 PM »
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The W530 also has the SATA III/6gbps interface, both SATA and mSATA.  

For hardware quality to be an advantage it must be better, in what ways?  In every way I can determine they're remarkably similar. I do think design goes to the Mac's, but that's not quality.  And some like basic black.. Smiley

WiGig isn't yet a reality, which would be a gig on a single channel.  Manufacturers have used MIMO, adding bandwidth across multiple bands to 'add-up' bandwidth, with some over 1 gig, and Apple MBP's and the Airport Extreme can do this.  But the W530 does virtually the same thing and with a tri-band router you can add a third channel with added speeds of 1.75g.. Not bad, but in reality they're much the same with MIMO configs (through Centrino selection) being the only real edge either way.

It's interesting to note the new Retina has both USB3 (though half as many as the W530) and Thunderbolt now.  Nice!  An advantage for sure, though I'm not sure many are choosing to pay the price to benefit from Thunderbolt.

Tell me about the Retina.  Personally I don't see any advantage to my user experience or my photography with this much resolution on a small display, small could probably be defined as 22 inches and smaller for me personally.  Last time I looked Adobe didn't support Retina, do they now?  And you're saying prepress color is more accurate on a Retina laptop screen than a desktop display we'd normally use for color such as an Eizo or NEC?  And you're saying this advantage comes into play at 300dpi?  Can you describe how?  I fully support quality gamut friendly notebooks for road use because sometimes it's all I have available, and sometimes I can get a lot of the processing done on the road with minimal touching up necessary on a desktop.. but I work much slower on small monitors, a desktop is far faster.  And whether or not I'm viewing at 200 or 300.. not much difference in my accuracy.  Does anyone think we'll see Retina resolutions on desktop monitors soon?  

Hello Steve,

I don't want to get into a comparison match between the two, however these are two completely different machines and use cases. One is for corporations and one is for design. In terms of build quality, there's no comparison. In terms of features, the Retina display and Thunderbolt on their own are requirements to my mind, and the RMBP has both.

Thunderbolt is essential to my photography/video workflow. The Retina display (or any display panel that has similar resolution) is ideal for accurate color and print work, more so than a high-resolution larger display panel with less pixel density. Think about it like this: you want to get as close to the printed DPI on-screen as you can, as the art of printing is all about control, and getting the on-machine image to render color accurate in the print.

Whatever gets you there the better. The RMBP is over $1,000 more expensive, but things like SSDs, 20GB channel I/O and ultra-high density display panels are things that photographers can leverage. Things like well designed aluminum unibodies are just nice to have, not essential like the above.

Graham

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nairb
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2013, 08:03:49 AM »
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Hi Steve,

I believe you may be incorrect regarding the speeds of the msata ports on the w530.

It seems the board has just two sata III connections and the msata is only sata II.

See some of these search results:

https://www.google.ca/search?redir_esc=&redir_esc=&hl=en-GB&client=ms-android-google&source=android-browser-type&v=210020311&qsubts=1362920094965&q=msata%20on%20w530%203gbps%20or%206gbps

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/performance-chipsets/mobile-chipset-qm77.html
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 11:46:50 AM by nairb » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2013, 05:21:04 PM »
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Hi Steve,

I believe you may be incorrect regarding the speeds of the msata ports on the w530.

It seems the board has just two sata III connections and the msata is only sata II.

See some of these search results:

https://www.google.ca/search?redir_esc=&redir_esc=&hl=en-GB&client=ms-android-google&source=android-browser-type&v=210020311&qsubts=1362920094965&q=msata%20on%20w530%203gbps%20or%206gbps

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/performance-chipsets/mobile-chipset-qm77.html
There is some question about this (and a lot of confusion just in the links you provided) and I'm leaning this way.. For sure the MSATA chip is separate from the Q77 so you can still run two SATA3/6g SSD's in the regular HDD and Ultrabay spaces.. but no where are the specs listed for the separate chipset supporting the MSATA port.  I do remember thinking during my review (and even mentioned in my review) the SSD performed subpar to my expectations.. a SATA3 port would explain it.   Still, 3 SSD's, 2 SATA3's and 1 SATA2 is an advantage over the MPB and most every other laptop out there.
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2013, 05:43:58 PM »
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Hello Steve,

I don't want to get into a comparison match between the two, however these are two completely different machines and use cases. One is for corporations and one is for design. In terms of build quality, there's no comparison. In terms of features, the Retina display and Thunderbolt on their own are requirements to my mind, and the RMBP has both.

Thunderbolt is essential to my photography/video workflow.
The Retina display (or any display panel that has similar resolution) is ideal for accurate color and print work, more so than a high-resolution larger display panel with less pixel density. Think about it like this: you want to get as close to the printed DPI on-screen as you can, as the art of printing is all about control, and getting the on-machine image to render color accurate in the print.

Whatever gets you there the better. The RMBP is over $1,000 more expensive, but things like SSDs, 20GB channel I/O and ultra-high density display panels are things that photographers can leverage. Things like well designed aluminum unibodies are just nice to have, not essential like the above.

Graham


1.  Oh.  What was your first post about?  I thought you were discussing what you saw as advantages of one over the other?

2.   I see, so you've never used or even read the specs for the W530 have you?  It's an ISV certified workstation configurable in every way as a design workstation as the MPB with the lone exception of TB.

3.  This answers my question above.  You've never seen or used one.  When you make a statement it means nothing if it's not quantified.  Tell us why.

4.   It may be, and if you had no other choice in hardware this would be advantage.  Tell us how its essential.  What are you using that couldn't be used otherwise?

5.   Well.. really resolution is a small part of accurate COLOR and print work.  I'd say a high-gamut IPS monitor with a build in colorimeter and supported software is much more a part of my own color work.  Tell us how more resolution aids your color work?  And let's not lose track, they are notebooks.. they get us by when a real monitor isn't available.

6.  Why.  What does 300 dpi on a 15 inch screen do for us that 240 doesn't?  What are you seeing?  And where does the color come in?   And you never answered if Adobe is supporting Retina yet.  What software are you using?

7.  SSD's certainly, the majority of photographers are probably enjoying them now.  The MBP holds no advantage with SSD's and unless it can support 3 of them and a 4th through esata it might be at a disadvantage.  A 20gb channel and the Retina display.. I don't know anyone using either where they couldn't be served equally through other ports.  I know 20gb is a much larger channel than is available on W530 (at least until you use a PCI card), but I don't know anyone other than a very few high end equipped labs using it's capability where it couldn't be otherwise supported..  And these are pro video guys.  Still photography doesn't require it.  Retina.. who's using it for photography or on Adobe?  Anyone?

8.  IF you like shiny aluminum.. I've got enough of it on my cars.. I'm much more taken with carbon fibre and magnesium like on my x201s.  But it's all personal preference.





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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2013, 11:59:44 AM »
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Steve, the one thing that is missing, and its really important for some, on the W530 is OSX...Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2013, 01:22:11 PM »
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Steve, the one thing that is missing, and its really important for some, on the W530 is OSX...Smiley
LOL.. bet it could be hacked..   

I think Win7 finally presents an equal challenge to OSx to the point it's now more about preference than function.
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2013, 01:58:14 PM »
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LOL.. bet it could be hacked..   

I think Win7 finally presents an equal challenge to OSx to the point it's now more about preference than function.

OS is personal preference but as a along time W7 guy, as you know, who now loves OSX, I'll take OSX. 
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2013, 02:43:32 PM »
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LOL.. bet it could be hacked..   

I think Win7 finally presents an equal challenge to OSx to the point it's now more about preference than function.
A serious workstation with an hacked operating system which may stop working with an update?
I'd say a playstation  Roll Eyes

I read very good comments about the W530. Yet it -doesn't- run OS X.
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2013, 07:04:06 PM »
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A serious workstation with an hacked operating system which may stop working with an update?
I'd say a playstation  Roll Eyes



Just two words, Carbon Copy..

How many non hacked OS updates both win and OSX have broken a perfectly workable machine?  Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2013, 01:37:34 AM »
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1.  Oh.  What was your first post about?  I thought you were discussing what you saw as advantages of one over the other?

2.   I see, so you've never used or even read the specs for the W530 have you?  It's an ISV certified workstation configurable in every way as a design workstation as the MPB with the lone exception of TB.

3.  This answers my question above.  You've never seen or used one.  When you make a statement it means nothing if it's not quantified.  Tell us why.

4.   It may be, and if you had no other choice in hardware this would be advantage.  Tell us how its essential.  What are you using that couldn't be used otherwise?

5.   Well.. really resolution is a small part of accurate COLOR and print work.  I'd say a high-gamut IPS monitor with a build in colorimeter and supported software is much more a part of my own color work.  Tell us how more resolution aids your color work?  And let's not lose track, they are notebooks.. they get us by when a real monitor isn't available.

6.  Why.  What does 300 dpi on a 15 inch screen do for us that 240 doesn't?  What are you seeing?  And where does the color come in?   And you never answered if Adobe is supporting Retina yet.  What software are you using?

7.  SSD's certainly, the majority of photographers are probably enjoying them now.  The MBP holds no advantage with SSD's and unless it can support 3 of them and a 4th through esata it might be at a disadvantage.  A 20gb channel and the Retina display.. I don't know anyone using either where they couldn't be served equally through other ports.  I know 20gb is a much larger channel than is available on W530 (at least until you use a PCI card), but I don't know anyone other than a very few high end equipped labs using it's capability where it couldn't be otherwise supported..  And these are pro video guys.  Still photography doesn't require it.  Retina.. who's using it for photography or on Adobe?  Anyone?

8.  IF you like shiny aluminum.. I've got enough of it on my cars.. I'm much more taken with carbon fibre and magnesium like on my x201s.  But it's all personal preference.

k

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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2013, 03:49:38 AM »
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Just two words, Carbon Copy..

How many non hacked OS updates both win and OSX have broken a perfectly workable machine?  Smiley
It's three words: Carbon Copy Cloner

Beside that, I used to run an hackintosh for academic purposes several years ago. It was a huge PITA.
Troubles anytime, everywhere.
I'm a computer engineer, I'm not a newbie

My OS X machine never got broken for an upgrade, so, for the last question I'll just say: I don't know how many, but since I switched to OS X, never got those issues. Previously? Some.
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2013, 09:36:56 AM »
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It's three words: Carbon Copy Cloner

Beside that, I used to run an hackintosh for academic purposes several years ago. It was a huge PITA.
Troubles anytime, everywhere.
I'm a computer engineer, I'm not a newbie

My OS X machine never got broken for an upgrade, so, for the last question I'll just say: I don't know how many, but since I switched to OS X, never got those issues. Previously? Some.

Ok three words.  

I have two hacks, and both are as stable and productive as my actual macs, and I have several.  Sorry you had a bad time, perhaps it is just beyond you.

As for a broken update, I suggest you take a look at what ML did to NEC 2690's and Nvidia cards...just for starters. I know , it happened to me, on actual Macs.

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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2013, 03:03:16 PM »
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OS is personal preference but as a along time W7 guy, as you know, who now loves OSX, I'll take OSX. 
You're going to be the one to convince me if anyone will.  Every time you talk about it I can feel the tugging on my sleeve (and my wallet).  The only thing that saves me is I naturally love hardware and I'll take the kid in the candy store approach with PC/s vs the candy machine approach with Apple.. Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2013, 09:25:25 PM »
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You're going to be the one to convince me if anyone will.  Every time you talk about it I can feel the tugging on my sleeve (and my wallet).  The only thing that saves me is I naturally love hardware and I'll take the kid in the candy store approach with PC/s vs the candy machine approach with Apple.. Smiley

I like hardware too but I must confess I really like getting away from it and just using the machine.  I'll most likely  add a Mac Pro if the new ones are decent.
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