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Author Topic: i1Profiler documentation  (Read 1903 times)
Jan Morales
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« on: March 06, 2013, 01:10:04 PM »
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I got a new i1Photo Pro 2 this week, but I can't find much documentation on i1Profiler. I'd like to know what every single option and indicator means, just for my education. For example, what does it mean during the patch scan when the lower triangle in the confirmation screen is white or black or a very different color than the top triangle? (scan.jpg)

Also, I have an Epson 4900 with Epson inks. What kind of printer is that in the list under the advanced printer type section? (printertypes.jpg)

Is there a place to go for detailed documentation for i1Profiler? I can't seem to find anything on the X-Rite web site or in a web search or even Amazon.

Thanks for any help.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 01:21:06 PM »
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The bad news is, even if you found such text, I'm not sure it has a lot of value. For example, some of the sliders appear to have no effect or tiny effect on the profile. Smoothness is a prefect example. I could write pages of what it's supposed to do, hopefully with minimal marketing speak. But build a profile at +100 then -100 and the effects, even on the Perceptual table is non visible last time I tried this. I wish I had better news.

The settings you show have NO effect on the profile. It's just some data that is stored presumably with the asset you'll build when you create the profile. So pick Inkjet, but it doesn't matter. There's piles of stuff in the UI that has no purpose.

The patches you show are the 'before' (reference values) and after (measured values) and they are supposed to warn you of bad reads. You'd expect the software to pop an error when they are way out of bounds, that doesn't happen. Worse, I've seen recently, at least building projector profiles that the before and after patches in some places are way off, yet no error and good profiles. So I'd keep an eye on this if you see say green top, yellow bottom, especially using a manual read Spectrophotometer. Better yet, the software should just tell you OR that UI needs to be much larger.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
Jan Morales
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 01:39:44 PM »
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Good to know. Thank you very much for your reply, Andrew.
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 02:40:57 PM »
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Is there a place to go for detailed documentation for i1Profiler?
Not that I've ever found.
As you've seen X-Rite's documentation is almost non existent, or at least not very helpful. Lots about what things are, but not what they do or why you might make one choice or another.
Plus as Andrew has already mentioned; some functions are so subtle as to be invisible, so trial and error can be frustrating too.

One of the problems with colour management is that there's a lot of basic information out there and a lot of very highly technical white papers about the detailed technology, but just about nothing that gets you from one to the other.

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Schewe
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 02:46:45 PM »
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I got a new i1Photo Pro 2 this week, but I can't find much documentation on i1Profiler.

Written docs? Not so much...but if you click on the Training Video icon on the lower right of the main screen, you go to a special X-Rite site that has a number of different video tutorials about various aspects of i1 Profiler...some of them are useful...
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 03:17:29 PM »
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Who are the people that so-called "manage" that company?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 03:18:55 PM »
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Who are the people that so-called "manage" that company?

IF you find out, please let me know! <G>
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Andrew Rodney
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RichWagner
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 03:19:55 PM »
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The bad news is, even if you found such text, I'm not sure it has a lot of value. For example, some of the sliders appear to have no effect or tiny effect on the profile. Smoothness is a prefect example. I could write pages of what it's supposed to do, hopefully with minimal marketing speak. But build a profile at +100 then -100 and the effects, even on the Perceptual table is non visible last time I tried this. I wish I had better news.

The settings you show have NO effect on the profile. It's just some data that is stored presumably with the asset you'll build when you create the profile. So pick Inkjet, but it doesn't matter. There's piles of stuff in the UI that has no purpose.

Thanks for the straight-up information, Andrew.  Undoubtedly you have spent a lot of time with this software.

Everyone used to complain about the "poor" documentation with ProfileMaker 5, but there was over 40 MB of docs in 6 languages.  Sure, it wasn't book quality, but much of it was helpful.  For example, where else would you have gone to learn the difference between the "paper colored gray and "neutral gray" settings for the gray axis with perceptual intents within ProfileMaker?  There were docs for every module - not perfect, but often better than videos, and infinitely more searchable. Even short descriptions are often helpful - "it does this or that." I don't think anyone is expecting a treatise on color management.

The "piles of stuff" in the UI that have no apparent effect on the build of the profiles is truly disturbing... but maybe that's why they don't want to give descriptions of the controls.  ;-)

--Rich
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 03:27:37 PM »
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IF you find out, please let me know! <G>

:-)
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2013, 04:03:06 PM »
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Most of what you'd like to know about the company you'll find here, even though it is now owned by Danaher, it operates as a self-standing entity:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/790818/000119312512116788/d283603d10k.htm#toc283603_1

And here's the info on who to write if you have major complaints:

Thomas J. Vacchiano Jr.   59             President, Chief Executive Officer
Rajesh K. Shah            60             Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer and Secretary
Francis Lamy            53             Executive Vice President, Chief Technology Officer
Vijender Stalam            57             Senior Vice President, Sales & Marketing

Thomas J. Vacchiano, Jr. is the President and Chief Executive Officer of the Company and has held that position since October 1, 2006. Mr. Vacchiano also serves as a director of the Company. He joined X-Rite as its President in July 2006 as part of the Amazys acquisition. Prior to the Amazys acquisition, he served as Amazys’ President and Chief Executive Officer. Amazys was a color technology company headquartered in Switzerland and was publicly traded on the Swiss Stock Exchange
.
Rajesh K. Shah is the Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer and Secretary of the Company and has held that position since October 2009. Prior to joining X-Rite, Mr. Shah served as Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of Cadence Innovation, LLC, a global manufacturer of automotive interior systems from 2007 to March 2009. Prior to his service at Cadence Innovation, Mr. Shah was Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of Remy International, Inc., a manufacturer of automotive and commercial products from 2002 to 2006.

Francis Lamy is the Executive Vice President and Chief Technology Officer of the Company and has held that position since July 2006, when he joined the Company in connection with its acquisition of Amazys. Prior to joining X-Rite, Mr. Lamy served as the Executive Vice President and Chief Technology Officer of GretagMacbeth AG, the primary subsidiary of Amazys, since 1999.
 
Vijender Stalam is the Senior Vice President of Sales & Marketing and joined the Company in December 2011. From 2009 to 2011, he served as Vice President, Commercial Sales (Americas Region) of Eastman Kodak Company (Kodak). From 2007 to 2009, Mr. Stalam held the position of Vice President, Global Strategic Accounts and Channels of Kodak. Prior to that, Mr. Stalam held a number of key positions over his 20 year career at Kodak including Vice President, Packaging, Commercial & Publishing Segments; Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer; Vice President Kodak Polychrome Graphics.
 
When customers have major functionality problems as a result of what these corporations don't do properly, it's often useful to let it be know right from the top down. Sometimes broken things get fixed.

Here is what the CEO said about the merger:

<<Upon completion of the transaction, X-Rite, headquartered in Grand Rapids, Michigan, will operate as a stand-alone company within Danaher’s Product Identification group which is a part of their Industrial Technology Segment.  X-Rite’s existing management team will continue to hold key senior leadership positions at the Company following the close of the transaction.  X-Rite will continue to do business under its existing X-Rite, Pantone and other leading brands.

Vacchiano continued, “Our commitment to our customers, employees, partners and local communities remains unchanged.>>

The last sentence is probably a good part of the problem.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Jan Morales
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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 01:12:56 PM »
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Written docs? Not so much...but if you click on the Training Video icon on the lower right of the main screen, you go to a special X-Rite site that has a number of different video tutorials about various aspects of i1 Profiler...some of them are useful...

Excellent tip. Thanks, Jeff. The videos didn't answer all my questions, but I did learn a lot about all the knobs and switches in i1Profiler.
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Jan Morales
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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2013, 12:38:04 PM »
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The patches you show are the 'before' (reference values) and after (measured values) and they are supposed to warn you of bad reads. You'd expect the software to pop an error when they are way out of bounds, that doesn't happen. Worse, I've seen recently, at least building projector profiles that the before and after patches in some places are way off, yet no error and good profiles. So I'd keep an eye on this if you see say green top, yellow bottom, especially using a manual read Spectrophotometer. Better yet, the software should just tell you OR that UI needs to be much larger.

I got some more of these bad reads, and because I was so frustrated at the prospect of starting the scan from the beginning again I took a chance and clicked in the patch chart window with my mouse and discovered that you can choose which page and row to scan at any time. Just use the arrows to select the page and click the row you want, and you can rescan any row you like. I rescanned the row and got a good read and kept going.
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l_d_allan
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2013, 03:07:42 PM »
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if you click on the Training Video icon on the lower right of the main screen, you go to a special X-Rite site that has a number of different video tutorials about various aspects of i1 Profiler...some of them are useful...

Helpful. Thanks!

At one point I found the training videos. Then I went looking for them on the main x-rite homepage and couldn't find them. I thought perhaps they had been removed. All I could find was a very generic, 40,000' overview with few specifics.
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retired in Colorado Springs, CO, USA ... hobby'ist with mostly Canon gear ... let me know if you're in the area and would like a free guided tour of our photographically "target-rich environment"
l_d_allan
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2013, 03:15:30 PM »
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For example, what does it mean during the patch scan when the lower triangle in the confirmation screen is white or black or a very different color than the top triangle? (scan.jpg)

Agree with Andrew-DigitalDog above ... possible mis-measure

More info ...
PMP5's MeasureTool has "Compare" that works even without a dongle to highlight the worst 10% patch measures between Expected vs Actual. I think the very worst patch is specially highlighted. i1Profiler has something very similar, but I wasn't able to get it to work with the demo 1.4.2 of i1Profiler.

So .... you would look at the highlighted 10% of the patches in "Compare". If you hover the mouse over a patch, you'll see the Expected vs Actual Lab values for that patch. If any are grossly off, then that patch was mis-measured. With a good measure of all patches, the worst 10% won't be that far off of Expected vs Actual.

MeasureTool can use the .txt CGATS measurement results, and also the generated .icc.
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retired in Colorado Springs, CO, USA ... hobby'ist with mostly Canon gear ... let me know if you're in the area and would like a free guided tour of our photographically "target-rich environment"
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