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Author Topic: At a loss... de-saturated reds?  (Read 907 times)
CDTyson
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« on: March 06, 2013, 07:39:26 PM »
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Sorry a little long winded here.

I was hoping someone could help me with an issue I have been encountering for a while.  I have search here for a similar issue without success also the internet.  I have followed the troubleshooting (monitor resets) on both the NEC site and in the manual and still I cannot resolve it.

Problem:  Some red colours (not all) are muted on the NEC but print on my Epson Stylus Pro 9900 over saturated as a result of the NEC muted reds.  Other colours seem ok.  Problem exists 95% of the time with the other 5% the reds look fine.  However can't narrow down what is different/going on when they do look fine.

I don't know when exactly this problem started but I have been attempting to fix for the past 5 months.

I have a secondary monitor a Dell U2412M also attached which displays the reds more closely to the printed image than the NEC.  But the colour range of the NEC is far more superior.

Dragging image (with reds prevalent) from one monitor and dropping to the other (using Photoshop CS5 or CS6, Lightroom 3 and 4) shows a significant shift in the reds.  I know I will never get the two monitors to match but there is a significant shift in the reds.

Both monitors were first calibrated using the following combinations:
  -  SpyderPro 2 and appropriate software
  -  i1Pro Basic and earlier software
  -  i1 Display Pro and latest software
  -  Also tried only on the NEC the SpyderPro 2 and i1 Display Pro colorimeters with the SpectraView II Software (latest version on your website as of a week ago)

None of the combinations make a difference with the reds on the NEC monitor.

I have printed from PS CS6/CS5 and Image Print 8.0 and 9.0 with different papers and profiles which has not made a difference.  Just proved it was not a PSCS6 or ImagePrint, profile or printer issue... I think.

The issue seems to point to the NEC but even NEC Tech Support (great support by the way) have been stumped.  Almost seems to be an OS or Video card issue or combination?  I just don't know where to go anymore.

System: Dell XPS8300
Monitor: NEC PA271W
Video:  AMD Radeon 6600 series
OS:  Windows 7
RAM:  16GB

Thanks a bunch in advance for any ideas, things to try and so on.

Cheers,

Doug
CDTYson Fine Art Printing
http://www.cdtyson.com
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Doug
CDTyson Fine Art Printing
www.cdtyson.com
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2013, 04:18:59 AM »
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If there is something with the Red channel on the NEC, shouldn't you see that issue right away in the first calibration steps? Did you try a 5000-5500 K color temperature set up too or just 6500 K ?

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CDTyson
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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2013, 05:42:15 AM »
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Thanks very much for the reply.

The red difference (monitor to print) is subtle on the monitor but noticeable on the print.  I don't see it at the first steps of calibration.  I do see a side by side difference between the Dell reds (correct enough) and the more muted reds on the NEC.

For years I have typically use the target of 6500 which has worked for me.  I can try a lower temp setup but I don't know what that would get me?

I am at a loss what else to check or do.  Very frustrating when producing many proofs to get the colours right.

Thanks again.

Cheers,

Doug
CDTyson Fine Art Printing
http://www.cdtyson.com
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l_d_allan
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2013, 05:07:16 PM »
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I'm fuzzy on whether I understand your situation, but here's my 2

  • Suppose you generate a very high number of patches using i1Profiler to generate a printer profile test-chart ... so that you have 18 steps of Red from RGB(0,0,0) to RGB(255,255,255) with the maximum of 6000 patches.
  • With the NEC, how many steps can you actually see?
  • How does that compare to the Dell?
  • I would think the NEC and Dell would perform similar with Reds, but the NEC should be better with Green and Cyan.
  • You can use a text-editor to modify a CGATS MyTestChart.txt file to whatever patches you want. Or use ColorPort's "Create Target".
  • You can also use CS4/5/etc to generate a stepped gradient with as many steps as you want ... up to 255?. They won't necessarily be linear wrt RGB or Lab. You can make the "stepped patches" to be much bigger to be easier to see than the 6000 patches in i1Profiler.
  • I've used Adobe ExtendScript with CS5 to generate specific patches and test strips.
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2013, 07:09:36 AM »
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For years I have typically use the target of 6500 which has worked for me.  I can try a lower temp setup but I don't know what that would get me?


The white point setting of a display profile is usually best set by using the one that gives you a match.  When I consult with a client, I start by printing a standard print (usually bill atkinsons' or lately the variation of his created by Jack Flesher located at outbackphoto.com) on their printer using a known good paper profile.  Then the luminance is adjusted so the density matches the print when viewed in the standardized viewing area they have created. Finally profiles are made varying the white point until the color matches as closely as possible.

Variation of white point and luminance of the display are really the only controls available in setting up a functional color managed workflow.  On my own NEC my white point is a manual one, took be about 4 profiles to nail it down but the color match is extremely close.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 12:33:16 PM by Wayne Fox » Logged

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