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Author Topic: The Future of Medium Format  (Read 10095 times)
JerseyT
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« on: March 18, 2013, 05:51:27 PM »
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Interesting interview, but is it just my imagination or are the L and R audio tracks reversed in the beginning when they were up on the roof?
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michael
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2013, 06:46:44 PM »
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Ya, they're reversed and I didn't realize it until it was rendered and uploaded.

Solution wear headphones and turn them around for the opening sequence.  Roll Eyes

Michael
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uaiomex
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2013, 07:40:56 PM »
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I don't remember witnessing a finer interview about photography in general and its future than this one with P1 CEO. There are so many neuralgic questions for future products that were answered and some with enough information for us to be able "to read between lines" and get some strong speculations not of thin air. Right at the beginning, it seemed to me that P1 was probably buying the Afi system. Later on, it didn't sound so much like it, but definitely developing another camera. Perhaps a bigger than 645?

I refuse to believe DMF will top at 645. This is only the smallest of the medium formats true sizes. Besides, along with CMOS technology, creating bigger sensor will definitely insure MF future for decades to come.

Many congratulations Mike and thank you so much for such an extraordinary fine time. For both of you.

Eduardo
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 07:44:09 PM by uaiomex » Logged
Dan Martin
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2013, 08:37:55 PM »
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Great interview Michael. Thanks for taking the considerable effort to make this available online.
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bradleygibson
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2013, 09:30:48 PM »
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Thank you Michael!

I especially appreciate the fact that you were not particularly sparing in your criticism of some P1 technology (for example, the camera), even though you are a fan of their other technology.

Witnessing candid discussion with P1 was refreshing, enlightening and encouraging.  Henrik, too was a little forthcoming with some previous efforts at wireless communication.

Very refreshing, and it is encouraging to see that they are getting the message, it just sometimes takes longer than we'd like to bring the products to market.

Are you aware of any reason a CMOS sensor would require a shutter at all?  If they are going through the trouble to bring out a new camera system, it would be ideal if it bypassed the whole leaf/focal plane shutter question entirely, and was an electronic global shutter.

Thanks again to both of you for this discussion.
-Brad
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tim wolcott
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2013, 10:19:51 PM »
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MIchael great to see your looking good and did a great interview.  I sure hope they still allow us to use some of the lenses that they don't make anymore.  Like 500mm Apo lens.  BUt can't wait for the new system.  But I'm sure I'm the rare one who only uses one system.  Medium format dead, I think not.  WE may not need to much more resolution but dynamic range will be the big jump. 

The IQ280 and 260 will be great.  Using my framing cards The iPad will be the replacement for the ground glass in the large format cameras we all used early on.  Can't wait.  More precision is always a good thing.

Tim Wolcott
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Rusty
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2013, 11:04:37 PM »
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Are you aware of any reason a CMOS sensor would require a shutter at all?  If they are going through the trouble to bring out a new camera system, it would be ideal if it bypassed the whole leaf/focal plane shutter question entirely, and was an electronic global shutter.


Henrik did mention they are working on a new shutter and CMOS speculative math...
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2013, 12:13:50 AM »
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Hi,

A very interesting interview. Some interesting stuff noted:

1) Phase is doing well and so seems medium format in general is doing well.

2) All actors coming out with new stuff in a couple of years.

3) Phase has around 70 employees in RD, that is a lot for a small company.

4) Phase One's philosophy is to give a lot of value for a lot of money, that includes a competent dealer chain but percludes low pricing.( My observation, Hasselblad seems to go another route).

5) Phase One has mirrorless bodies (well I knew about that, they are on the price list here in Scandinavia).

6) CMOS is in the works. CMOS and CCD systems will be sold in parallell. (My guess: CMOS introduced at high end and CCD gradually phased out. Does CCD have any benefits over CMOS? I don't think so, interesting to see).

7) Phase one will offer an upgrade path

8) Phase One is probably depending on upgrades, that is owners reinvesting in new models.

Off course a lot of sales speak, he is a CEO :-)

Regarding CMOS it is interesting that it seems firmly on the roadmap. That means that Phase One has a sensor partner who can codevelop and manufacture CMOS sensors in appropriate size at appropriate cost. Could it possible be about a sensor fully developed by Phase and independently fabbed, or would Phase do like Leica and work with an existing chip design firm, like CMOSIS.

The discussion on shutters is interesting. Just some observations:

1) It seems that it is possible to dampen the Mamiya focal plane shutter. Alpa FPS and Hartblei both use that shutter and according to Stefan Steib, vibration is not a problem.

2) I read earlier that the main manufacturer of leaf shutters is leaving the LS business. Right or wrong?

3) Global shutter is coming for sure but on large CMOS sensors,not yet there.


Best regards
Erik

« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 02:07:39 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

Wayne Fox
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2013, 01:00:38 AM »
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MIchael great to see your looking good and did a great interview. 
+1

It was a great interview but seeing Michael looking so well was definitely the highlight.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2013, 01:06:49 AM »
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+1

Yes, Michael being back was the Really Good News!

Best regards
Erik

+1

It was a great interview but seeing Michael looking so well was definitely the highlight.
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DaveCurtis
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2013, 02:04:00 AM »
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Wonderful interview with Henrik Michael.

It is great to get the views and opinions from a CEO like this.
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amsp
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2013, 07:22:53 AM »
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Very nice interview indeed. It's especially nice to know that the new camera is coming in 2013/14. What I also like about Phase One is that it's obvious they are genuinely passionate about what they're doing, and also have a close relationship with the users of their products. I hope MF has a long and prosperous future because the lack of options is good for no one, regardless which camp you're in.
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Sareesh Sudhakaran
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2013, 08:03:51 AM »
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Excellent interview, well worth the 40 minutes! I couldn't help but imagine a medium format camera capable of shooting video. That would make it truly unique.
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2013, 08:07:51 AM »
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Excellent interview, well worth the 40 minutes! I couldn't help but imagine a medium format camera capable of shooting video. That would make it truly unique.
Yeah, unique to be out-of-focus all the time. It's already a chalenge with FullFrame sensors in motion and I can't imagine the mess with a bigger sensor. Unless they come with a magic and trully powerfull AF suitable for video, it's going to suit a very niche and limited type of footage. Very wide, slow mouvements, slow aperture...mmm
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 08:09:47 AM by fredjeang2 » Logged
michael
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« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2013, 10:05:34 AM »
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Hi Fred,

Shooting three camera interviews like this are really tough without a cameraman. Chris was not able to make it down, and I did all the shooting, sound and editing myself (FCP X MultiCam editing is awesome).

The best shots were with a Canon G10 camcorder (the two shot), because it has wide DOF. The other two cameras were a NEX7 and NEX6 and often the focus was off as a result.

Frankly, a high-end handycam shoots far better video that any video DSLR as long as you're willing to settle for wide DOF, which in the case of interviews is just fine.

Michael
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OldRoy
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2013, 11:59:16 AM »
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Yeah, unique to be out-of-focus all the time. It's already a chalenge with FullFrame sensors in motion and I can't imagine the mess with a bigger sensor. Unless they come with a magic and trully powerfull AF suitable for video, it's going to suit a very niche and limited type of footage. Very wide, slow mouvements, slow aperture...mmm
OT but I couldn't resist mentioning something here.
Anyone who has seen Paul Thomas Anderson's recent (terrific!) film, "The Master", 85% of which was said to have been shot in 65mm format may have noticed that a lot of the close-ups are horribly mis-focused, to an extent that I've never seen before in a feature film. Either the whole shot's out or else the DOF is so shallow that the puller can't manage to track the actors' movements. My assumption is that this is a consequence of the choice of format, although it's quite possible that the takes chosen have been selected for the actors' performances at the price of including focus that's well off (on the ears rather than the eyes, for example.) Maybe there's no video assist available for this almost abandoned format?
Roy
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Rob C
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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2013, 12:35:39 PM »
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OT but I couldn't resist mentioning something here.
Anyone who has seen Paul Thomas Anderson's recent (terrific!) film, "The Master", 85% of which was said to have been shot in 65mm format may have noticed that a lot of the close-ups are horribly mis-focused, to an extent that I've never seen before in a feature film. Either the whole shot's out or else the DOF is so shallow that the puller can't manage to track the actors' movements. My assumption is that this is a consequence of the choice of format, although it's quite possible that the takes chosen have been selected for the actors' performances at the price of including focus that's well off (on the ears rather than the eyes, for example.) Maybe there's no video assist available for this almost abandoned format?
Roy


Was that seen in a cinema or on your tv or monitor?

Many years ago, I took the family to the cinema to see Thunderball when it was new. The thing was so badly out of focus that I left my seat and went in search of the manager. In the end, he convinced me that the projectionist did have it in focus as far as was possible... before I had the family, such minor details as focus wouldn't even have been noticed. Such a romantic period, the 50s.

Rob C
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2013, 12:55:17 PM »
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Hi Fred,

Shooting three camera interviews like this are really tough without a cameraman. Chris was not able to make it down, and I did all the shooting, sound and editing myself (FCP X MultiCam editing is awesome).

The best shots were with a Canon G10 camcorder (the two shot), because it has wide DOF. The other two cameras were a NEX7 and NEX6 and often the focus was off as a result.

Frankly, a high-end handycam shoots far better video that any video DSLR as long as you're willing to settle for wide DOF, which in the case of interviews is just fine.

Michael


Hi Michael,

I totally agree. There is a teevee prod here made by the RNE (the BBC equivalent), it's a reality not interesting in itself but it's shooted by one girl and they use a small camcorder for that reason. It just works very fine on field. Even when she runs, action stays in focus. The only thing the girl has to think of is barely framing. No hassles. I think it records HDV but not remember well.

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OldRoy
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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2013, 02:46:35 PM »
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Was that seen in a cinema or on your tv or monitor?

Many years ago, I took the family to the cinema to see Thunderball when it was new. The thing was so badly out of focus that I left my seat and went in search of the manager. In the end, he convinced me that the projectionist did have it in focus as far as was possible... before I had the family, such minor details as focus wouldn't even have been noticed. Such a romantic period, the 50s.

Rob C
I saw the film in a major cinema in Leicester Sq. in London. I was wearing my glasses; they have an up-to-date prescription even if they are, er, vari-focals :-) The problem was that the plane of focus was so shallow that.. well, I think I've described it adequately already. The film was definitely not projected oof (blimey, do I come across as that dim?). I'm told by a friend who is seriously interested in film technology that there's a fair amount of discussion about this amongst cinephiles. I found it pretty startling and not by any generous interpretation an effect designed to contribute anything to the film's intent. As I said, I suspect that it's a case of no video assist and "use the best performance take".

Roy
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MHMG
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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2013, 04:43:32 PM »
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I'm very glad to see Phase One and medium format thriving in this ever changing market, and I enjoyed Michael's interview with Henrik very much.  I was intrigued at how many times the discussion turned to "differentiation", and although I believe I'm reasonably aware of the technical pros and cons of larger format sensors, longer focal length lenses, leaf shutters, etc., it would have been nice if Michael and Henrik had been more specific about what kind of image differentiation medium format photographers actually deliver to clients in practice.  After all, if I showed up to a shoot with an iphone camera while driving a Ferrari or Lamborghini, I bet I'd differentiate myself from other photographers as well in the mind of the client. Grin But Ferraris and Phase One backs are totally above my pay grade, so I can only dream of being a Phase One customer....except when it comes to software. A long time fan of iView Media Pro, I'm truly glad to see Phase One giving this fantastic software a new lease on life. IMHO, digital asset management and metadata ease of use still has plenty of room for improvement. Phase One has an opportunity to differentiate itself in this regard as well.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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