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Author Topic: Acid-free mounting adhesive/films  (Read 2111 times)
nihil
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« on: March 22, 2013, 10:19:53 AM »
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Hello,

Are there anyone who knows of some acid free double-sided mounting adhesive films? Preferably in rolls. I'm not sure what the correct term is for this kind of mounting, but it's pressure rollers without heat (like this: http://www.drytac.co.uk/roller-laminators/jetmounter-jm44.html) I've only found one product in Norway, but it's *ridiculously* expensive imho.

And what are your thoughts on using non-acid-free alternatives when used with PH-buffered papers like Hahnemühle Photo Rag Baryta (ph8). The adhesive films are usually so thin I'm not sure they could ever penetrate the print.. But I'm no expert.. I just don't want to use an adhesive that shortens the life of the prints.
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Erlend Mørk
Ken
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2013, 11:19:34 AM »
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acid free double-sided mounting adhesive films? Preferably in rolls.
And what are your thoughts on using non-acid-free alternatives when used with PH-buffered papers like Hahnemühle Photo Rag Baryta (ph8).
I've been using Gudy 0 870 (http://apps.webcreate.com/ecom/catalog/product_specific.cfm?ClientID=15&ProductID=20661) for about a year with Canson Platine Fibre Rag and Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308 on acid-free board. I apply it manually, carefully, using a microfiber cloth for the initial stick-down, then burnishing with a rubber roller. No problems so far.

I avoid all "non-acid-free alternatives" except for signage and other non-critical, short lifespan projects.
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deanwork
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2013, 06:40:40 PM »
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Hi Ken,

This sounds exactly like what I need and Talas is  good company. I've been asking around a lot time about a product like this. Most of these pressure adhesives are not really a sure thing for very long term bonds I don't think.

I have a show coming up soon and I was considering something like this. My thoughts would be either to mount 40x60 inkjet prints to either foamcor, a thick rag board or aluminum and then mount unmatted in a big shadow box frame. Do you think it would be possible to mount prints in the 30x40 or 40x60 size with this material? I would assume having some kind of heavy long roller to press against it would be desirable? I'm going to have to try this stuff out.

I get the feeling from reading their data that it has a super bond that shouldn't pull up. Of course if you made a mistake in laying down the print it is ruined, right? I don't get the feeling that it is "positionable" in any way . But that could be good in the long run and apparently there are no chemicals to attack the paper ph over time or become brittle and crack or buckle.

john
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Ken
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2013, 11:27:46 PM »
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The largest I've mounted with it was 24x40" on acid-free 3/16" foamboard. There's an 8-ply mat over that, covering 1/4" of the edges all around. As far as I know, there has not been a problem with it. I used a silicone covered pastry roller, moving in one direction, overlapping about an inch with each pass. Aside from making sure all air bubbles are rolled out, the one nagging unknowable that still keeps me holding my breath is that a tiny piece of grahdoo might get between the board and adhesive... and you don't know about it til after you've rolled it all down... and there it is like an enormous zit on Mona Lisa. That happened to me only on my first 8x10 test, and since then I've been obsessive about wiping the board with a microfiber cloth in every direction before applying the adhesive.
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deanwork
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 09:30:10 AM »
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Yes mounting is such a pain because the work area needs to be 100% clean of everything. I would use compressed air like crazy but even then you need to look very closely. This is why the vast majority of labs are very poor at mounting even if they have too equipment. They rush and it don't eliminate the debris in the work room.

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framah
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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 09:54:56 AM »
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When using pressure mounted adhesives, the main thing to remember is that the larger your piece, the more chance it will release somewhere. The main problem is that there is a limit to the shear strength of the adhesive and when the paper and/or mounting substrate moves due to expansion/contraction, it is testing the limits of that shear strength.

3M's PMA..positional mounting adhesive... is good for only up to around 24" or so, so if you have a print of around 20x24, you are pushing the limits of the adhesive to keep it down flat. 

Remember that even tho you are trying to use an adhesive that is "acid free" so the acids don't damage the paper, there are other things in the adhesive that can damage it as well. Numerous chemicals that make up the adhesive will migrate to the paper and cause damage. What this means is that any chemical based adhesive will, by its very makeup, not be archival. 

On the other hand, if you are old enough, you can use the "bad stuff" and still offer a life time guarantee for your work and be pretty much assured that it will not visibly degrade till after you are dead. Grin
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PatrickAllen
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 09:55:14 AM »
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We use a cold roll mounting machine and as others have mentioned its critical that everything be clean and a high humidity helps to. Some adhesive manufacturers that make ph neutral mounting adhesive are Mactac, Seal, and GBC. These adhesives work on Sintra, Dibond, Aluminum, Fome-cor, etc. and do not require heat.

Best,
Patrick Allen
KenAllenStudios
PatrickAllenPhotography
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deanwork
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 10:26:48 AM »
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Yes I know it's done everywhere but when you get down to asking about how stable they are in terms of the chemicals they use, no one has any answers ( same with dibond make up). I call the highest-end mounting place in NY that does the very high-end gallery work, and they put me off and never return my calls from the "person who knows". I suspect even they don't know.

john
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Walt Roycraft
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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 01:50:20 PM »
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I've been using Gudy 0 870 (http://apps.webcreate.com/ecom/catalog/product_specific.cfm?ClientID=15&ProductID=20661) for about a year with Canson Platine Fibre Rag and Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308 on acid-free board. I apply it manually, carefully, using a microfiber cloth for the initial stick-down, then burnishing with a rubber roller. No problems so far.

I avoid all "non-acid-free alternatives" except for signage and other non-critical, short lifespan projects.

This is what I use as well. I don't mount large prints, 20X30 max.
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deanwork
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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2013, 05:18:01 PM »
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Walt, what are you mounting on? Have you had any of them pull up from the mounts or anything? Can you mount "by hand" to dibond without a roller press?

john
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Walt Roycraft
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2013, 06:33:40 AM »
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Walt, what are you mounting on? Have you had any of them pull up from the mounts or anything? Can you mount "by hand" to dibond without a roller press?

john

I have only been using this process for 6 months. No pull ups yet.
I'm mounting on 1/2" Acid free foam board. I roll out the adhesive and apply the print to the adhesive. Trim the excess, and then use a hand roller. I then pull back a couple inches of the backing paper and mount to the board, once in place I pull back the remaining backing paper. I then use the backing paper over the print and use the hand roller over the print. 4ply or 8ply mat.
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nihil
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2013, 08:26:59 AM »
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Thank you very much for the info! Does anyone have more links to these products?

I had some pull-up problems in the beginning, but it seems to be easily fixed by increasing the pressure. Would you say that heat activated adhesives are better for long term mounting and longevity?

About dust problems. I don't know how you guys are mounting, but I use boards that have a release film attached, and it is pulled off gradually as it enters the rollers. Dust happens only occasionally, and if there's the occasional small dust-particle it doesn't matter unless you're using thin RC-papers. The messy environment I'm working in probably gets dusted and vacuumed every 3 years or so Wink
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Erlend Mørk
Ken
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2013, 09:23:35 AM »
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Here's an article I found a few years ago by Wilhelm-Research. It was published almost exactly 10 years ago, but I haven't found anything more current.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 09:26:38 AM by Ken » Logged
Clearair
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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2013, 09:21:31 AM »
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Herma adhesive roll.
Slightly gummy and 24 hrs before permanent? I question this as I use it because I don't think it ever gets ROCK hard, so leaves some flexibility between the alu panel used and print media.
Big prints 30/20inch, no goo over the top, hung 3 years and NO pull ups or arm curls.

The media used is a factor to think about as some papers I like just do not work mounted like this.
The vaulted ice cold in the winter and warm to hotish in the summer room I use has a humidity level like a high rise lift.
So foamboard was a disaster after 6 months.

Clean panel, apply roll by hand and peel off backing, move to one side.
Having used your own method of keeping everything in line place print (Face down ahem) turn over and drop panel on top of print.
Turn the lot over, soft tissue over the print and apply a rolling pin with rudder coating from the kitchen.

Simmer for...stop it!!


Bugger is that Herma have dropped the roll products, now it's in sheet only and much more expensive.

Regards
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jrsforums
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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2013, 10:50:56 AM »
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Has anyone tried....Scotch® 908 ATG Gold Adhesive Transfer Tape..?

John

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John
framah
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« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2013, 11:59:12 AM »
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Has anyone tried....Scotch® 908 ATG Gold Adhesive Transfer Tape..?

John




Tried it for WHAT??
Do you really think you can lay down row after row after row of ATG to make a continuous coverage of the mount board and then expect it to hold a print? Roll Eyes

This is worse than using PMA.
At best, ATG is used for attaching the paper to the back of frames or maybe sticking a small (5x7) piece of paper onto something.
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"It took a  lifetime of suffering and personal sacrifice to develop my keen aesthetic sense."
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