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Author Topic: Mounting Photo to Foam Core - White or Black?  (Read 2105 times)
Roscolo
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« on: March 22, 2013, 11:46:43 AM »
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Running some 30x40 prints, landscapes and architecture. Printing on HP Prem ID Satin. Prints will be mounted to 1/2" foam board with Coda mount film. Then framed. Not behind glass (not my idea).

Usually I mount to black aluminum and all looks good. First time doing foam board.

Which foam board gives best result, white or black?

Tx

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DeanChriss
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2013, 11:58:50 AM »
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I've never used black because unless the paper is 100% opaque, which is seldom the case, a black backing has at least a potential to affect the print's dmax. It may not be enough to matter, and if that's so the backing color shouldn't matter either.
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Garnick
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2013, 12:05:15 PM »
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Running some 30x40 prints, landscapes and architecture. Printing on HP Prem ID Satin. Prints will be mounted to 1/2" foam board with Coda mount film. Then framed. Not behind glass (not my idea).

Usually I mount to black aluminum and all looks good. First time doing foam board.

Which foam board gives best result, white or black?

Tx

Personally I would never mount something that size on standard foam core.  Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but in my opinion the only product for light weight mounting is Gatorboard.  It's MUCH stronger and more dimensionally stable than foam core.  Foam core almost always has a tendency to warp, regardless of the thickness.  Perhaps you are indeed talking about Gatorboard, in which case this reply is redundant.  However, having mounted on both white and black Gatorboard I can say that in my opinion they are both equal in quality and stability.  Considerably more expensive, but in the end, worth the cost.

Hope this is of some help.
Gary

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Roscolo
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2013, 12:14:52 PM »
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Personally I would never mount something that size on standard foam core.  Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but in my opinion the only product for light weight mounting is Gatorboard.  It's MUCH stronger and more dimensionally stable than foam core.  Foam core almost always has a tendency to warp,




Yep. Not my choice, it's the customer's. They seem to think framing is going to prevent warping, even though I pointed out images in their conference room they had done in the past (by someone else), framed, that were warping. My recommendation was and is aluminum panel. Better than and even cheaper than 1" Gatorboard, from my supplier, even paying for custom cuts. And Gatorboard, like foam board, can get a hole punched in it. And the client even had a piece (also done by someone else) that had had a hole punched in it by someone bumping into it with a pencil or something, or so it appeared.

I would have given them an extended replacement warranty with aluminum panel. I give no warranty at all with foam board or Gatorboard for warping or damage. I'm off the hook as I ONLY recommended aluminum panel. My next recommendation was 1" foam. Told them 1/2" foam would warp or be very susceptible to damage, as the other damaged pieces they had hanging in their conference room clearly demonstrate. They still chose 1/2" foam...Their choice!

Guess I'll just go with white.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 12:17:11 PM by Roscolo » Logged
Dan Berg
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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2013, 05:32:53 AM »
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Your business,your client,but!
Sometimes their are certain material choices You have to take control of.
In our cabinetry business we have these material choices come up on a daily basis.
When I sit down with my client and go over final specifications I go over with them the substrates we will be using on the job.
They pick the material species I pick the core. 99% of the time.
I get questioned often. Why don't you use particle board we know it is cheaper?
I tell them why we do not use it and what we are using and why it is so much better.

Back to your issues. This work reflects on you and your business. When this company has one of there important clients sitting around that conference table and he/she says that's a really nice picture but who the heck mounted it and why is it all warped.
The guy that ordered from you is going to spit out your name and say "I have no idea why he mounted it like that " giving you all the bad credit.
I would give them 2 prices,one for your metal and the second for gator.
If he asks about foam core you tell him it is not used for anything over 16x20 as we have had too many issues with larger sizes and cannot manufacture something we cannot warranty.
Have no idea where the cost is but a 30x40 print and mount is not inexpensive.
1/2" gator is not expensive and cannot imagine the difference being an issue.
We use 1/4 and 1/2" gatorboard all the time with no problems.
Bottom line i would think you would want to make the choices for materials that are so critical to the integrity of a project like this.

Now for the apology part as this wasn't meant to be business ethics 101.
And here all you asked for was white or black. Undecided
Sorry the devil made me do it.
It's just that with 30 odd years of this kind of experience I would want to make the choices I know I can stand behind,my/your names at stake.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 01:34:48 PM by Dan Berg » Logged

John Caldwell
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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2013, 12:39:29 PM »
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We use black 1/2" Gatorfoam almost all the time. I have never note a loss of print contrast or dmax using the black board instead of white, but I do think the potential exists. The mounted prints are laminated with either luster or gloss material, and board edges are subsequently banded with 1/2" melamine-type material. The resulting products look quite nice, are light in weight, stay flat, and are inexpensive.

John Caldwell
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mstevensphoto
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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2013, 02:56:11 PM »
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John, how are you banding the edges? where do you get the supplies?
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Roscolo
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2013, 03:33:04 PM »
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Your business,your client,but!
Sometimes their are certain material choices You have to take control of.

Back to your issues. This work reflects on you and your business. When this company has one of there important clients sitting around that conference table and he/she says that's a really nice picture but who the heck mounted it and why is it all warped.


Appreciate that. Did a little research and turns out the warped / damaged pieces they already have ARE on 1/2" Gator. Will say the 2 that are warped are more like 30x60, not 30x40. It's a govt. institutional client, and the existing warping seems to be within their "acceptable" level. So I am going to go with Gator, even though my estimate for aluminum panel was cheaper than Gator. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink!
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2013, 04:20:18 PM »
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Understand completely!

Not John but here is what we woodworkers use.
Freud hot air edgebander with Freud trimmer. The 13/16" black pvc edgebanding with hot melt adhesive can be purchased at just about any cabinetry plywood supply company.
Works just about as good with a hot iron,plus saves you $300.00 (That is how repairs are done when a spot comes loose.)
Really finicky and easy to damage. You must be really careful after your print is mounted when you are trimming with a razor. If you slice into the edge you may be starting over.
I do several of these every once in a while but these are usually at the low end where folks do not want to spend much money and here you are spending almost an hour to put nice edges on your Gator.
Several companies make automatic edgebanders that adhere and trim solely for this use. Similar to the auto edgebanders in our woodworking business except they use a thinner foil for the edges.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 03:18:36 AM by Dan Berg » Logged

John Caldwell
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2013, 05:41:05 AM »
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Dan describes the method well.

A variation is to place the mounted & laminated print face down on a very flat work surface, tack the self-adhesive banding down with your heat gun, move the print so the edges now hang over the edge of the table to complete the application of heat to the entire band, and lastly - trim the band at the rear of the gator board rather than from the front - reducing risk of damaging the front-mounted artwork.

I'm no longer doing this mounting and banding myself and send it out to a local graphics company. They do it quickly, inexpensively, and more accurately than I can.

John
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Rocco Penny
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 06:26:53 AM »
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I'm confused, we must be talking about several different products and mountings-

Gator, then Gator brand foam core mounting board which is different,
I use 1/4 inch gator
It is better than any foamcore, you could re use it if you don't like the finished product,
I don't get why for double the relatively inexpensive mounting board people keep blick and the like busy as heck selling junk...
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2013, 01:07:18 PM »
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Yes can be confusing.
Foam board and foam core same thing.  Gatorboard and Gatorfoam board same thing. When the word foam is thrown in after Gator thats when the confusion starts.
Here is the doc sheet on Gatorboard and Gatorfoam board its the same - An extruded poly styrene foamboard bonded between two layers of luxcell wood fiber veneer.
To make things more confusing Foam Board Source offers a self adhesive Gatorfoam showing it as "foamboard" but has this link back to their "Gatorfoam board" and the description listed above with wood fiber veneer...huh?
It is also expected that someone may disagree with these explainations. Many folks out there calling products by different names.
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Rocco Penny
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2013, 04:48:47 PM »
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sorry, I know gator, and you know gator,
but not everybody knows gator...
puncture it with a pencil?
NO
warpage at 24" wide,?
NO
the only width I have printed is 24" on the short side,
but even the middle of my 10' pieces have zero warpage on 5mm
10mm is really maybe ok for a 44" piece and 1" I can't fathom,
how do you fit that in a frame?
Oh well,
dsfdf
I just really can't see how if you use gator even once we might even talk about warpage...
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John Caldwell
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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2013, 05:14:35 PM »
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...1" I can't fathom,
how do you fit that in a frame?

One inch material look great banded, no frame - for certain subject matter.
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