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Author Topic: Copal is Going Out of Business  (Read 5029 times)
FredBGG
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« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2013, 10:13:54 AM »
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That DHW shutter sounds promising! I wonder what the cost will be (edit: just found out: €1400... ouch!). Rather than a phone interface I'd prefer to have a dedicated weather-proof *small* shutter box that I could permanently attach to the camera body so it sits there.

Samsung is coming out with smart watches that would be a compact solution you could attach to the camera. Also the Android OS has extensive support
for running cameras. Both Nikon and Samsung have cameras running on the OS.

However I really don't understand why the MF companies don't get together and produce a standard shutter and protocol.
Standard shutter and put the control software in the backs. It's pretty simple stuff. Loads of point and shoots have had electronic leaf shutters for
years. It's really rather ass backwards the way it is today. Timing is done by the shutter and the back has to copy this timing. Would it not be much better for the back to
dictate the timing. You would still set the speed on the camera (slr) for ergonomic reasons, but the back would do the timing.
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torger
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« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2013, 10:36:35 AM »
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Samsung is coming out with smart watches that would be a compact solution you could attach to the camera. Also the Android OS has extensive support
for running cameras. Both Nikon and Samsung have cameras running on the OS.

However I really don't understand why the MF companies don't get together and produce a standard shutter and protocol.
Standard shutter and put the control software in the backs. It's pretty simple stuff. Loads of point and shoots have had electronic leaf shutters for
years. It's really rather ass backwards the way it is today. Timing is done by the shutter and the back has to copy this timing. Would it not be much better for the back to
dictate the timing. You would still set the speed on the camera (slr) for ergonomic reasons, but the back would do the timing.

The shutter needs power, and those small android devices can probably not power the shutter.

The tech cam makers could together fund a new company that provided them all with some common components, but I think it's a too hard for them on the political level to collaborate, I think it would be quite hard for say Sinar, Cambo, Arca-Swiss, Alpa, Linhof to decide about funding, management and design directions, as they are quite fierce competitors too. It would be great though. Apart from shutters they could even make digital backs (with a precise and secure attachment mechanism for once), and have it all nicely integrated.

These companies are mainly mechanical factories too, their electronics is not exactly looking like a streamlined product from Sony but more as a lab prototype electronics-in-a-box. They need new knowledge to be able to design and manufacture an electronic product which is small, look great and has great ergonomics. The electronics-in-a-box type of product is not necessarily bad, they are working just fine in the studio, but out in the field and with hand-holdable equipment it would be nice with something small, smooth and well-integrated.

Rather than yet another poorly integrated electronics-in-a-box or required-software-in-a-computer-that-goes-obsolete-in-three-years I'd want a new mechanical shutter though, and that seems more likely to happen than an actual smooth well-integrated electronic solution.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 10:50:31 AM by torger » Logged
BJL
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« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2013, 08:53:18 PM »
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Stefan,
    I just learnt that Dalsa also offers CMOS sensors with global electronic shutters, and offers some nice details and honet appraisals of their advantages and disadvantages here:
http://www.covistech.com/uploads/DALSA_Datasheets/DALSA_CMOS_Shuttering.pdf
That document mentions that fixed pattern noise tends tp be worse with elecronic global shutters, and also suggts that they sacrifice well-capacity due to the space needed to store the signal at each pixel after the exposure has ended but the read-out is still ongoing. So Dalsa seems only to promote global shutter sensors for video usage, in machine vision.

Reduced well capacity and thus rduced DR is also a disadvantage of the CCDs that can do global shuttering (interline type and frame transfer type, not to be confused with full frame type): greater dynamic range seems to be the reason that high end CCDs for still imaging are the full frame type, sacrificing live view and global shutter for the sake of better DR.

P. S. Dalsa also mentions using column-parallel ADC, amd describes its advantages: is Canon the _only_ sensor maker that does not offer column-parallel ADC yet?
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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2013, 06:45:45 PM »
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Hi BJL

Thanks for that link, that is interesting stuff. Of course at the moment there are no systems yet using it, but that´s similar to the past when everybody said CMOS is only low quality.
I am 100% sure this will be worked on and solved to achieve best quality.

Regards
Stefan
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2013, 04:02:52 PM »
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Hi,

I think technology moves from artificial vision to surveillance cameras than phone cams and small sensors. Innovation is fastest at the bottom and slowest at the top. Think BSI (Back Side Illumination)!

Best regards
Erik




Hi BJL

Thanks for that link, that is interesting stuff. Of course at the moment there are no systems yet using it, but that´s similar to the past when everybody said CMOS is only low quality.
I am 100% sure this will be worked on and solved to achieve best quality.

Regards
Stefan
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