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Author Topic: Canson paper most similar to Epson Hot Press Bright  (Read 2613 times)
GeraldB
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« on: March 23, 2013, 06:52:09 AM »
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Does anyone know if there is a Canson paper that is similar to the Epson HPBW? I am starting to experiment with mat papers and I've used the Epson HPBW and quite like it. I'd like to compare it to something Canson makes if there is. If not Canson what about other manufacturers?
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Gerald
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2013, 07:19:38 AM »
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The only Canson matte paper I have used is Rag Photographique which is not as bright since it doesn't have any OBAs in it.  You might try Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Ultra Smooth.  It's pretty close to the Epson paper in brightness.
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IWC Doppel
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2013, 08:52:58 AM »
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Are you looking for an OBA equivalent as I dont think canson have any. I would suggest Rag Ultra white or Torchon for more texture from HFA or probably Rag Photographique from Canson for smoothness
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neile
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2013, 09:23:43 AM »
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I did a quick filter on my Inkjet Paper List (http://www.danecreekfolios.com/inkjet-paper-list/) and came up with:

Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Bright White
Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Ultra Smooth
Moab Entrada Rag Bright
Red River Aurora White
Red River 60 lb. Polar Matte

(Filtered on OBAs = yes, Tone = cool, finish = matte)

Neil
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Neil Enns
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2013, 10:00:54 AM »
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Does anyone know if there is a Canson paper that is similar to the Epson HPBW? I am starting to experiment with mat papers and I've used the Epson HPBW and quite like it. I'd like to compare it to something Canson makes if there is. If not Canson what about other manufacturers?
thanks
Gerald

If I recall it correctly the Epson HPBW, with quite some OBA, has good longevity in Aardenburg testing. None of the OBA alternatives quoted have that stability or there is no data available.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2013, 01:19:38 PM »
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If I recall it correctly the Epson HPBW, with quite some OBA, has good longevity in Aardenburg testing. None of the OBA alternatives quoted have that stability or there is no data available.

Quite right and it's surprising.  I wonder who manufactures this paper for Epson.

Alan
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GeraldB
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2013, 01:59:22 PM »
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Thanks for the replies. I thought Epson HPBW was considered a warm paper. Neil you've suggested cool papers if I read correctly.
Where would Canson Platine fit in the spectrum.

I like the smooth but velvety feel of the Epson and I like the non curl stiffness of the paper as I display without frames or glass.
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howardm
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2013, 02:02:51 PM »
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If you look at the two HPB vs. HPN, the HPB is pretty darn white w/o going over into OBA blue-white land.  HPN is definitely 'natural'
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GeraldB
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2013, 02:13:45 PM »
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I'm also about to try a 24inch roll for the first time. Epson HPBW sheets are quite thick and stiff. What will the curl factor be like on a roll. Will I need an unroller or will it flatten out by itself. Say 30 to 40 inch lengths.
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neile
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2013, 06:46:45 PM »
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Neil you've suggested cool papers if I read correctly.

Yes, I did. In Epson's naming convention, "Bright White" means "OBAs and cool". "Natural" means "no OBAs and warm".

I hauled out my giant stack of test prints and compared the ones I mentioned to the Epson Hot Press Bright. The closest in terms of base tone are Entrada Rag Bright and Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Bright White, although both are slightly whiter than the Epson. The Red River papers are all vastly cooler and more blue than the Epson.

Neil
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GeraldB
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2013, 07:09:28 AM »
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Thanks for taking the trouble to check Neil. Very good info.
cheers
Gerald
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KeithR
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2013, 04:24:01 PM »
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The Canson Platine is not a matte paper in that it uses PK and is considered a glossy media. However, I like it because it's the mattest glossy around!
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The destination is our goal but its the journey that educates us.
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2013, 04:44:13 AM »
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I like the smooth but velvety feel of the Epson and I like the non curl stiffness of the paper as I display without frames or glass.

If you like the Epson paper then stay with it I would suggest.
Of the alternatives mentioned the Red River Aurora White is only 230 grams, irregular yellow spots appear even in semi-dark storage (my experience) and has a bad Aardenburg test result. The Moab Entrade Bright White 310 gsm, yellows at the edges here but has no Aardenburg test, spectral plot identical to the Aurora though, so it suggests there is something common in both.
The HM PhotoRag Bright white shows the same spectral plot to the Epson so its white should be quite identical. It tested worse on white color shift than the Epson in Aardenburg testing.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 04:54:39 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
robgo2
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2013, 05:20:11 PM »
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The Canson Platine is not a matte paper in that it uses PK and is considered a glossy media. However, I like it because it's the mattest glossy around!

Shouldn't that be "mattiest?" Cheesy

Rob
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MHMG
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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2013, 09:54:18 PM »
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Hi Everyone,

Yes, vendors do tend to use the term "Bright white" as code for OBA containing papers and "natural" or "warm" for ones that don't, but when it comes to making subtle distinctions between warm versus neutral versus cool papers, Ernst's spectral plots and/or AaI&A published media b* values will zero in on subtle differences between papers much better. Your other good options are to obtain samples of different media and compare by eye under a light source with adequate UV content (e.g., natural daylight coming through a plain glass window) or to acquire a backlight (available at most hardware stores) and determine for yourself at least on a relative basis to other products how much OBA content is present in any one specific product.

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
http://aardenburg-imaging.com/cgi-bin/mrk/_4534c2hvd19kb2NfbGlzdC80

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 11:43:38 PM by MHMG » Logged
GeraldB
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« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2013, 07:02:05 AM »
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Hi Ernst and Mark. Thanks for you comments. Ernst, I have finally read your explanation on your website and understand (I think) the plots you show. The "bright" papers fluoresce in blue area making that part brighter. How big a difference in the vertical reflectance axis can one see in reality with the naked eye?
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2013, 09:51:59 AM »
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Hi Ernst and Mark. Thanks for you comments. Ernst, I have finally read your explanation on your website and understand (I think) the plots you show. The "bright" papers fluoresce in blue area making that part brighter. How big a difference in the vertical reflectance axis can one see in reality with the naked eye?

The total scale of 0 to 100% reflection is visible, from a black glossy vinyl with L 2.5, along newspaper and the oriental papers to papers that get above L 95 reflectance. All of them are in respective maps and can be compared to one another by eye (me) and in the plots. In practice it depends on the light that shines on the paper of course, more UV light will give a brighter reflectance with an OBA paper. In light with low UV there are OBA free papers that have a higher white reflectance than some OBA papers. 

For the same conditions throughout (D50) check the Lab numbers also visible if you put the cursor on the name of the paper in SpectrumViz and see what the L an b values are of papers you know from your own experience. The higher the L the more reflectance, the lower the b :  -2 to -10 the more blue/colder the paper is, in 99% of cases indicating OBA content. That will also tell you something about a paper that is in my list but you do not know yet.

The spectral plots are more technical and tell me whether papers are identical or where they differ, where in/on the paper OBA is applied, a bit about other whitening agents in the coating etc and how opaque a paper is.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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