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Author Topic: Question regarding Hasselblad Sensors  (Read 9384 times)
Ken R
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« on: March 23, 2013, 08:56:29 AM »
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Hi!

I currently in the market for a MF Digital system and was looking into the Hasselblads but I could not find out info about the sensors they use.

Does the H5D-40 have the same sensor as the H4D-40? How about the 50's (H3D-II-50 -> H4D-50 -> H5D-50)? How about the 60 also although I don't see a H5D-60?

Which one has the cleanest shadows and largest dynamic range? Which one is best for long exposures (up to 1-2min.)?

I want the camera to pull double duty as landscape and advertising/architecture. The 24mm and the TS adapter look (on paper at least) as awesome tools to have for working quickly on interior/arch jobs.

I am leaning towards the H5D's due to the better battery and weather sealing. For advertising the true focus is almost a must since focus/recompose is the order of the day in fast paced shoots.
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jecxz
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2013, 09:25:39 AM »
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I want the camera to pull double duty as landscape and advertising/architecture. The 24mm and the TS adapter look (on paper at least) as awesome tools to have for working quickly on interior/arch jobs.

I am leaning towards the H5D's due to the better battery and weather sealing.

I believe you will be very happy with the 24mm and the HTS, I posted some samples at GetDPI. On a side note, I think Hasselblad under markets the HTS and fails to realize how much of a creative tool it is. Do a demo and check it out.

The newer batteries will work on earlier H cameras with a firmware update. Regarding the weather sealing, remember the lenses aren't sealed.

Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
www.jecxz.com
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evgeny
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2013, 10:50:01 AM »
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The H4D-40 allows a 4 minutes exposures. I believe the H5D-40 supports same time.
Shutters in the 50 and 60 models can remain open only for a few tens of seconds.

Evgeny
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Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2013, 05:24:24 PM »
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Ken,

It is my understanding that the H4D-40 and 50 sensors are the same as the corresponding sensors of the H5D. I'm not sure about the H4D-60 and H5D-60. The H4D-40 and H5D-40 have maximum shutter speeds of 256 seconds, the 50 Mpixel maximum shutter speeds are 128 seconds and the maximum shutter speeds of the 60 Mpixel models are 32 seconds.

You should be able to find a PDF spec sheet here: http://www.hasselblad.com/media/4234787/45714-h5d_brochure_eng_print%284.7%29.pdf

Good luck on you search,
Ed
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Ed Foster, Jr.
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Ken R
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2013, 07:37:13 PM »
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Thx. Im leaning towards the H4D-40. Im playing with some files and they are awesome. I know its a cliche but they look quite film like but with a lot resolution at 100%. Very different from any DSLR I have used. I pulled up some shadows and the dynamic range its great. The D800e is quite good at this also. (I know, kinda a hot topic comparing the Nikon to MF).

I planning on buying it with the kit lens and the 24mm. (I can use the Cokin X pro filter system since it has 95mm front thread) Maybe add the 120 macro and TS adapter later ($10G's!)

The Phase SLR system looks ok but seems more limited in wide angle and AF.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 07:54:20 PM by Ken R » Logged
Gel
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2013, 07:55:16 PM »
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The 40 and 50 sensors are currently the same.
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Chris Giles Photography
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2013, 08:52:38 PM »
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Does anyone here with an h4d 40 or h5d have any experience tethering with the latest MacBook Pro, especially under heavy, heavy production?

Is the software stable?

Also has anyone had experience tethering with Lightroom, using the Hasselblad plug in?

Thanks

BC
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Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2013, 09:52:13 PM »
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Ken,

I too am enamored with the "look" of the H4D files and feel as you do in that they have a look more like film. I also use a D800, and the files are just a bit too plasticky for my liking. I do believe that it's the difference between CCD and CMOS sensors, as I really preferred the rendering from my early D1H and D1X which have CCD sensors. There may be others who will jump in at this point and want to debate that issue, but to my eyes, I like the rendering that a CCD provides.

IMHO, I don't believe you will be disappointed with the H4D series. Keep us posted.

BC,

I regularly tether to a two-year old MacBook Pro via Firewire 800 using Phocus and under my type of production, have not had any issues and that also includes a remote bluetooth connection to an iPhone and iPad. However, "heavy, heavy" may mean something else to you than me. From what I have seen of your work on here, you probably have a little more energy.

Ed
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Ed Foster, Jr.
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Josef Isayo
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2013, 10:44:20 PM »
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My friend has an H4D-50 that he successfully tethers using the latest iMac 27" running Phocus software.
My H4D-40 has never been tethered.
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Ken R
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2013, 11:40:19 PM »
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Before taking the plunge I do want to try the Phase One DF+ with one of their backs.

If I were going for a tech camera the choice is MUCH easier, Phase One back. But I want to use the back for more than just landscape so I need an effective SLR system.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2013, 01:55:37 AM »
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Does anyone here with an h4d 40 or h5d have any experience tethering with the latest MacBook Pro, especially under heavy, heavy production?

Is the software stable?

Also has anyone had experience tethering with Lightroom, using the Hasselblad plug in?

Thanks

BC

I have a H4D60 which I use with one of the latest MBP's via a TB/FW adapter. I remember a conversation we had several years ago about the ideal tethering situation, eg. Being able to shoot and not having to worry abut running into buffers. I believe we are there now. Even with the 60 I can shoot, say bursts of 20 to 30 images and they will be in a few seconds after I put down the camera. I have shot days with over 1500 images without issues where shooting felt really fluid. The weak part of the H4 is still the firewire port connection, it is not really snug and with a lesser quality cable (often a thinner cable which is more comfortable to handle) you will sometimes experience disconnects when you do not use a tetherlock. Allegedly this has been resolved with the H5. The H4D60 is BTW slower than the H4D40.

Tethering with LR is a no go if you need speed.
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bcooter
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2013, 05:27:41 AM »
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It's very much appreciated, everybody.

Thank You.

BC
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FredBGG
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2013, 01:18:53 PM »
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Thx. Im leaning towards the H4D-40. Im playing with some files and they are awesome. I know its a cliche but they look quite film like but with a lot resolution at 100%. Very different from any DSLR I have used. I pulled up some shadows and the dynamic range its great. The D800e is quite good at this also. (I know, kinda a hot topic comparing the Nikon to MF).

I planning on buying it with the kit lens and the 24mm. (I can use the Cokin X pro filter system since it has 95mm front thread) Maybe add the 120 macro and TS adapter later ($10G's!)

The Phase SLR system looks ok but seems more limited in wide angle and AF.

Wide angles.
Both Hasselblad and and Phase one wide angles are excellent (with the exception of the Phase One 55mm LS... good but not as good as the others)
However usability will be quite different on the two cameras. If you want to shoot shallow depth of field with moderate wide angles the Hasselblad
with true focus will make a significant. It will also improve subject sharpness when stopped down as the subject will most likely have spot on focus.
However for this advantage to be at it's best care has to be taken in how you recompose.

Focus recompose test with Phase one DF.

Here is a composite to show the extent of the recomposition.




Here is a crop (@50%) of the center:



Here is a crop of the recomposed image.


Regarding the files form a 40MP hasselblad and a 36MP nikon sensor there is really not any significant difference.
The Nikon has significantly more dynamic range and slightly better color depth than the HD3II-50.
Today's Hasselblad sensors have not really changed.

The whole CCD vs CMOS debate is had it's roots in the lead MF had quality wise about 10 years ago.
This has totally changed and I think that a very clear example of this is Leica's choice to go with CMOS sensors
in their new cameras.

Much of it also has to do with how people are processing their files. IF you make accurate camera profiles for both the Hasselblad sensor and the Nikon sensor
there really is no difference.

Here is a side by side test with the files processed with calibrated profile make for each camera. D800e vs H4D40

Photogy article here:

http://www.photigy.com/nikon-d800e-test-review-vs-hasselblad-h4d40-35mm-against-medium-format/

Full frame



Crops




Anyway the point I want to make is that in choosing an MF camera to complement a top of the line 35mm DSLR I think that sensor size
of the MF camera is important. The 40MP sensors are sub 33x44... you might as well remain with a d800.
Really is rather pointless to "upgrade" to a crop sensor MFD especially when using wide angles that lose angle of view due to the crop.
Especially for wide angle use an larger sensor will give you more coverage, but watch out for color casts on some larger sensors.





« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 02:10:03 PM by FredBGG » Logged
Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2013, 03:04:08 PM »
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Fred,

With all due respect, butt out! The OP's question is "Question regarding Hasselblad Sensors," so let's not make it another one of your diatribes about how much you like the Nikon D800 and how much better it is. You've posted the same images over and over again and you've made your points abundantly clear, many, many, many times. So, again, for once, give it a break - please!

Regarding the CCD vs. CMOS. That's not a debate for me. At this point in time, I prefer the look of the CCD sensors in my D1H and D1X and my H4D more than the look of images from my D3, D300 and D800. But hey, that's me and MHO. So, please remember, other people have opinions and preferences too and if you prefer the look from a CMOS better than CCD, I respect that, but just because you say it's so, doesn't make it so for everyone.

Now, can we please stay on topic of, "Question regarding Hasselblad Sensors?"

Ed




« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 05:10:59 PM by Ed Foster, Jr. » Logged

Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2013, 03:24:12 PM »
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It is amazing how much mis information is on this thread
The poster wrote that he was impressed with true focus-1st reply was regarding HTS that does not allow true focus
The next reply regarded mis info on the time exposure range of the HD50-it is 124 seconds
The fourth poster claimed the sensor for the HD40 and HD 50 are the same-I don't think that is correct
stanley

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Dustbak
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2013, 03:51:22 PM »
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Indeed the sensor for the 40 is different than the one in the 50. The size is different, 50= 37*49 and the 40 is 33*44. The 40 had microlenses giving it a stop more in possible exposure time as well as ISO (256sec for the 40, 128 sec for the 50, base ISO 50 for the 50 and 100 for the 40). They are simply different sensors.

TF works like a charm but not with the HTS, no AF at all with the HTS.

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FredBGG
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« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2013, 04:03:21 PM »
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Fred,

With all due respect, butt out! The OP's question is "Question regarding Hasselblad Sensors," so let's not make it another one of your diatribes about how much you like the Nikon D800 and how much better it is. You've posted the same images over and over again and you've made your points abundantly clear, many, many, many times. So, again, for once, give it a break - please!

Regarding the CCD vs. CMOS. That's not a debate for me. At this point in time, I prefer the look of the CCD sensors in my D1H and D1X and my H4D more than the look of images from my D3, D300 and D800. But hey, that's me and MHO. So, please remember, other people have opinions and preferences too and if you prefer the look from a CMOS better than CCD, I respect that, but just because you say it's so, doesn't make it so for everyone.

Now, can we please stay on topic of, "Question regarding Hasselblad Sensors?"

Ed


First of all you are the one in the thread to bring up the comparison:

I too am enamored with the "look" of the H4D files and feel as you do in that they have a look more like film. I also use a D800, and the files are just a bit too plasticky for my liking. I do believe that it's the difference between CCD and CMOS sensors, as I really preferred the rendering from my early D1H and D1X which have CCD sensors. There may be others who will jump in at this point and want to debate that issue, but to my eyes, I like the rendering that a CCD provides.
Ed


Second where have I ever said I prefer the look of a CCD to a CMOS. I'm saying that they are substantially the same when comparing the latest sony/nikonsensors
so please do not misrepresent what I wrote.

You state ed your opinion and I stated mine as well as following it up with a clear high res example. There is a saying ... an image is worth a thousand words.

I also find it interesting while MF manufacturers repeatedly claim superiority over 35mm DSLR they don't publish comparisons.

Regarding the choice of Hasselblad MF sensor I think I gave some useful advice pointing out that the larger of the Hasselblad sensors would be a significant advantage for wide
angle photography over the 33x44 sensor.
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bdp
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« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2013, 04:04:40 PM »
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It is amazing how much mis information is on this thread
The poster wrote that he was impressed with true focus-1st reply was regarding HTS that does not allow true focus
The next reply regarded mis info on the time exposure range of the HD50-it is 124 seconds
The fourth poster claimed the sensor for the HD40 and HD 50 are the same-I don't think that is correct
stanley



I think he said the corresponding sensors of the 40 and 50 were the same from the H4D to the H5D. I don't see anyone saying the 40 and 50 sensors are the same, only that they haven't changed from the H4D to the H5D series.

Ben
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FredBGG
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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2013, 04:23:23 PM »
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TF works like a charm but not with the HTS, no AF at all with the HTS.


Tilt shift with the HTS has some significant limitations. In trying it out I fount it particularly tricky to focus with.
This is due to the 1.3 stop brightness reduction and the light from the lens hitting the focusing screen at a different angle.

Another thing to be considered is that it significantly reduces the angle of view. For example it turns a 4.8 24mm into a 7.5 36mm.
A 35mm becomes a 52mm.
This is a significant limitation for indoor architectural photography.

Also close focus is reduced somewhat limiting the use of tilt shift for small object photography where tilt shift is so useful.
The reduction is more with wider angle lenses.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 04:43:04 PM by FredBGG » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2013, 04:45:31 PM »
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I believe you will be very happy with the 24mm and the HTS, I posted some samples at GetDPI. On a side note, I think Hasselblad under markets the HTS and fails to realize how much of a creative tool it is. Do a demo and check it out.

Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
www.jecxz.com


However the 24mm becomes a 36mm when used with the HTS.

I agree that tilt shift is a very useful and creative tool. I love using to tweak shallow depth of field photography
allowing me to focus on two models faces even if they are on a different plane.

Look at this video for some nifty tilt lens fun...

http://youtu.be/XboAeIjcs2E
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 11:53:03 PM by FredBGG » Logged
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