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Author Topic: Help please with MF Choices  (Read 9267 times)
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2013, 09:13:15 AM »
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Hi,


No issues with Phase One backs as far as I can recall.

Best regards
Erik


Since really we're talking about "MF Choices"-----sooooooo how'd all those Phase MFDBs and Phase cameras (And Hassy) do in Antarctica??

Let's talk actual users of MFDBs.  The internet forums are always full of the squeeky wheels (no offense to those who suffer from ailing equipment).  I just don't hear of the horror stories of failing MFDBs from the elements.  If there are any "horror" stories it's more from user error, and no amount of weather sealing would have prevented the mishap.  Gosh---anybody with all this horrible dust inside their 55LS from a lack of marketing BS weather sealing??   Roll Eyes

ken

p.s.  That 2009 Antarctica trip was during the Phase One P+ series generation MFDBs.  IMO, the current IQ series is "improved" with it's battery more shielded from the elements.


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Jeffery Salter
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« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2013, 09:25:29 AM »
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Scotty.  I will give it to you straight.  I have (1) P40+ back on a 645DF camera.  I use the camera on my commercial assignments and magazine work.  However when business is slow I like to travel.  Here is a photograph from my personal series.  It's called Sacred waters, shot in Haiti, one year after the recent earthquake.

This photo was taken with a P40+ on a 645DF camera, at 2.8 on 80mm SK LS lens. (handheld at 1/80)  I used a strobe to pop it a bit.  So yes the Phase one cameras and Digital backs do very well in water, spray conditions.  I don't baby my gear.

The photos from this series I been in several galleries.  Printed about 44 x 60.  I always believe it's important to capture at the highest quality when you can.  You can easily resize in photoshop for smaller usage.  

Thank you,
Jeffery


« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 06:01:37 PM by Jeffery Salter » Logged

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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2013, 10:06:40 AM »
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Hi,

You get diffraction, so you need more sharpening which increases noise, so you need more noise reduction. Diffraction looses contrast, mostly fine detail contrast. Diffraction responds well to deconvolution type sharpening.

Also, diffraction is a function of aperture and pixel size, so small pixels loose more than larger pixels.

Best regards
Erik


This is all great feedback.  Thanks.

So in choosing to go with medium format, can I assume that I will get less depth of field at the same aperture as 35mm FF.

So that means stopping the lens down quite a bit more to achieve sharpness through the frame, for example f/16-f/22

Are the lenses still performing well at these apertures?

Scott
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2013, 10:17:29 AM »
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I have taught about 18 workshops all over the country and mostly with Phase One gear. From every back they have made folks attend these workshops in all kinds of conditions not once did anyone ever go down because of moisture, rain, water and or cold. Sure in the cold we have had some battery slowdowns and short life and the famous DF battery issue which is pretty much a non issue now. We always recommend some protection in case we do get caught in some really bad weather which no one would want to shoot anyway. But garbage bags are usually in the vehicles and pretty much everyone has at least a cheap 2 gallon zip lock bag. I did a 50 year flood shooting for 2 days in pouring rain with my P40 and DF in a 2 gallon zip lock bag. Worked a charm. Photography is and always will be dealing with workarounds. Sure weather sealing is a nice option but really would you stick your 30k of gear in the rain without some protection even with weather sealing. You'd be a freaking idiot to trust any BS weather sealing marketing when your 30k is on the line. I would never trust weather sealing without some kind of protection anyway. Lets talk reality here. Im not going to risk thousands of dollars on gear when a .10 cent plastic bag is handy. They do sell more eloquent weather protection covers from many companies. Just watch any Pro sport game with video cams all over the stadium. They all have weather protection raincoats on them.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2013, 01:38:25 PM »
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Hi,

I got the impression that Phase One backs are built like a tank. Still if you check the specs, they probably say between zero and 40 Celsius.

Good equipment seems to take a lot of punishment, but there are no warranties. It is important that a vendor stands firmly behind the customer when in need. Obviously they cannot work miracles, but they can at least give it a try!

Sometimes that fails. The Hasselblad zoom falling apart for Michael Reichmann in Namibia was a good example, and he was not alone. The six 5DIIs that failed on Antartica were not handled very well by Canon. That incident led to my best friend not buying a 5DII.

Best regards
Erik


I have taught about 18 workshops all over the country and mostly with Phase One gear. From every back they have made folks attend these workshops in all kinds of conditions not once did anyone ever go down because of moisture, rain, water and or cold. Sure in the cold we have had some battery slowdowns and short life and the famous DF battery issue which is pretty much a non issue now. We always recommend some protection in case we do get caught in some really bad weather which no one would want to shoot anyway. But garbage bags are usually in the vehicles and pretty much everyone has at least a cheap 2 gallon zip lock bag. I did a 50 year flood shooting for 2 days in pouring rain with my P40 and DF in a 2 gallon zip lock bag. Worked a charm. Photography is and always will be dealing with workarounds. Sure weather sealing is a nice option but really would you stick your 30k of gear in the rain without some protection even with weather sealing. You'd be a freaking idiot to trust any BS weather sealing marketing when your 30k is on the line. I would never trust weather sealing without some kind of protection anyway. Lets talk reality here. Im not going to risk thousands of dollars on gear when a .10 cent plastic bag is handy. They do sell more eloquent weather protection covers from many companies. Just watch any Pro sport game with video cams all over the stadium. They all have weather protection raincoats on them.
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2013, 02:11:04 PM »
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Everything will fail at some point. I agree having someone stand behind there product is great but that's also false insurance to rely singular on that. These are reasons we buy from dealers and get all risk insurance plans not to mention some sort of backups and a plan B. you really have to protect yourself since not one single coverage is good enough. OEM may not be able to help in some regards but a dealer may have a temporary fix though. I look at these things as if this goes south I turn here. But if something else goes south I may go a different route. This goes for all systems and yes piss poor luck seeing 5 Canons go down and a Hassy lens falling apart. No question that sucks. Some things are rare and let's say the Hassy lens was one of those but the Canons given the numbers than it maybe a production , design issue. But believe me Canon sells so much that 5 going down may not get them off there seat but more like 500 they would actually react. I know sucks for the 5 guys but when your that big it's a very small number to them. Not condoning anything but sometimes that is just the way it is.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2013, 02:34:54 PM »
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Hi,

The point is:

Michael found fifteen owners of the same lens falling apart. Hasselblad's response was essentially that lens should not be carried pointing down and that the owners were at fault. They could just repaired the lenses as goodwill and got appreciation for good service, but that was not their choice.

Canon could have said, sorry, and replaced the failed cameras. Now, the message they sent out was that 5DIIs are expected to fail under mild arctic conditions. All other stuff, and there was plenty of it worked.

Best regards
Erik




Everything will fail at some point. I agree having someone stand behind there product is great but that's also false insurance to rely singular on that. These are reasons we buy from dealers and get all risk insurance plans not to mention some sort of backups and a plan B. you really have to protect yourself since not one single coverage is good enough. OEM may not be able to help in some regards but a dealer may have a temporary fix though. I look at these things as if this goes south I turn here. But if something else goes south I may go a different route. This goes for all systems and yes piss poor luck seeing 5 Canons go down and a Hassy lens falling apart. No question that sucks. Some things are rare and let's say the Hassy lens was one of those but the Canons given the numbers than it maybe a production , design issue. But believe me Canon sells so much that 5 going down may not get them off there seat but more like 500 they would actually react. I know sucks for the 5 guys but when your that big it's a very small number to them. Not condoning anything but sometimes that is just the way it is.
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2013, 03:02:26 PM »
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Typical corporate response and you should know this is don't admit to anything unless you have no choice. LOL

Having said that I don't disagree with you as we as consumers expect a lot better service, companies don't always see it there customers way though. I don't own either Canon nor Hassy so I'm one less customer for both. Maybe a reason for that but I do not like Canon for many reasons but I have no beef with them and certainly not Hassy either. But on the same hand I do not trust any of these systems at the end of the day. Shit happens and all we can do is try and protect ourselves. Anyway this is OT to question at hand. And these threads spin around in many directions which I hate to see but there are 4 systems out there to look at and 2 of them are fixed sensors to a body and if anyone thought having a tech cam as a extra possibility neither one would work so than your down to 2 systems. I used Phase gear a long time , had 5 backs and multiple lenses and bodies. It's what I recommend as its always been top gear for me and pretty much been free from issues and the many people i have taught or been around that own them. I don't recommend Hassy, Leica or Pentax as I never owned them and I refuse to talk about gear I never fully used, tested or owned. That's me though.
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JV
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« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2013, 05:39:08 PM »
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Michael found fifteen owners of the same lens falling apart. Hasselblad's response was essentially that lens should not be carried pointing down and that the owners were at fault. They could just repaired the lenses as goodwill and got appreciation for good service, but that was not their choice.

Erik,

This is obviously wrong from Hasselblad.  It sounds like they launched a product that was not ready yet and that they did not take responsibility for it.

That being said, what is the relevance of repeating the same story over and over again?

THIS WAS SEVEN YEARS AGO!!!

I own the same lens.  It works fine.  It doesn't fall apart.

I have used Hasselblad service in New Jersey 3 times in the last 3 years.  Excellent and very fast service!  I wish all companies provided the same level of service as Hasselblad.

Whenever I need a part I just email Nicole and she sends it to me.  Again very easy and good service.

What I am trying to say is that this was yesterday's news.  Let's move on. 

If you through your personal experience with Hasselblad have similar stories to share about the present please do share.  These would be very relevant for people making new MF choices.

Thanks, Joris.
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Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2013, 06:14:25 PM »
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I have used Hasselblad service in New Jersey 3 times in the last 3 years.  Excellent and very fast service!  I wish all companies provided the same level of service as Hasselblad.

+1
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Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2013, 06:42:56 PM »
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I have used Hasselblad service in New Jersey 3 times in the last 3 years.  Excellent and very fast service!  I wish all companies provided the same level of service as Hasselblad.

I have always found Hasselblad service to be excellent.
Recently sent a 110mm F2 in for an iris replacement and cleaning. Very fast turnaround and very reasonable.
Particularly good considering it was discontinued quite a while ago. I had it back in two weeks including shipping.
Nice to deal with them directly too.

Similar experience years ago in Europe to.
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2013, 08:55:40 AM »
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The Pentax while a nice system does not allow upgrade of the back without purchasing a new body, as well.
So something to consider when choosing.


Phase One, while allowing you to purchase a more expensive back, does not give you an updated body with it.
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2013, 08:59:51 AM »
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Sounds like you've really fallen for all this medium format digital marketing BS.   Shocked   Grin

I shoot "seascapes" and around water all the time.  (Carmel, Monterey, PG, Big Sur is my backyard).  In over ten years of shooting with MFDBs, I've never had an issue arise from "weather" and using my Phase bodies and Phase One MFDBs.  It just take a bit of common sense.  Most all cameras despite the lack of weather sealing marketing, can perform surprisingly well during inclement weather, with a bit of care and common sense.  Here's a short article and image of my Cambo WRS with IQ180, a bit soaked from photographing Lower Proxy Falls in Oregon:  http://kendoophotography.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/photographing-oregon-with-the-cambo-wrs1050-and-phase-iq180/   I've had my Phase DF in worse conditions photographing along Shi Shi Beach in Washington.  It's simply not a problem if you use a bit of care and common sense.  If the weather gets any worse, it's just not fun anymore.   Wink

Sorry, but this is silly. Given a choice, I would like my body weather sealed. Yes, I have used plenty of cameras in bad weather, but I have used the 645D in a blizzard with snow melting and then freezing on the body. I don't think I would do that with another MFD camera.
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2013, 09:01:48 AM »
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This is all great feedback.  Thanks.

So in choosing to go with medium format, can I assume that I will get less depth of field at the same aperture as 35mm FF.

So that means stopping the lens down quite a bit more to achieve sharpness through the frame, for example f/16-f/22

Are the lenses still performing well at these apertures?

Scott

Yes. I shoot the 645D at f/16 often and you can get great results. I have also shot at f/22 and the prints are also very nice. I am making 4' to 5' prints from these.
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2013, 09:10:15 AM »
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Also, diffraction is a function of aperture and pixel size, so small pixels loose more than larger pixels.

Best regards
Erik



Actually, this is false. In the final image, you simply are getting higher frequency detail with a format with a higher pixel resolution--read: smaller pixels. The diffraction just effects this detail first, but in the perception of the image, the loss is not greater in the smaller pixel image and you are still getting more information. 100% monitor views are deceptive.
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yaya
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« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2013, 09:11:47 AM »
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I have used the 645D in a blizzard with snow melting and then freezing on the body. I don't think I would do that with another MFD camera.

"Low miles, from a lady doctor, never taken off road, never raced, never ridden in the rain and always stored in a garage..." Wink
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2013, 09:15:38 AM »
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"Low miles, from a lady doctor, never taken off road, never raced, never ridden in the rain and always stored in a garage..." Wink

I am not ready to sell my camera yet, but when the times comes, this is just the copy I need! I am a creative photographer after all.
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KLaban
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« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2013, 09:17:15 AM »
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Michael found fifteen owners of the same lens falling apart.

I've been using Hasselblad cameras for more years than I care to remember and in all that time I've only had to send an item to Hasselblad for servicing once and that was for a minor fault on a lens.

The trouble with forums is bad news gets reported whereas good news doesn’t. The other trouble with forums is contributors often have little or no personal experience of the equipment they are commenting on. Unfortunately this is something we see all too often.
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kdphotography
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« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2013, 09:33:28 AM »
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Sorry, but this is silly. Given a choice, I would like my body weather sealed. Yes, I have used plenty of cameras in bad weather, but I have used the 645D in a blizzard with snow melting and then freezing on the body. I don't think I would do that with another MFD camera.

I'm not saying "weather resistance" isn't a good idea.  Nor should it be assumed that because it isn't marketed as such that protection from the elements hasn't been included in the design of the equipment.  Phase One MFDBs are built well to operate in the extremes.  If anything, they are over-engineered.  And aside from the errant marketing of an elephant stepping on a Phase MFDB  Grin, they have an established history of photographers using Phase MFDBs successfully under all conditions.  Failure to work because of the elements isn't a shortcoming of Phase One.  It just works.
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2013, 09:45:44 AM »
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Ken, you are right. To a certain extent, every camera is sealed from the environment. Whether weather sealing is the tipping point of a purchase, I am not sure--that is to do with the photographer. Spending a great deal of time in bad weather, it is important for me, but there are other factors that are more important. I have certainly used cameras outdoors in less that ideal conditions. But when I was looking for an MFD camera, I must admit matching the specs of the 645D to the Mamiya DF, the Pentax as a package was very attractive and the weather-sealing thing was a really nice touch.
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