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Author Topic: Help please with MF Choices  (Read 7515 times)
FredBGG
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« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2013, 01:53:09 PM »
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Seriously this begs the question if weather sealing is important to you why in the hell would you be so stupid to buy into a phase system to begin with. Talk about contradiction


I bought the Phase One system so as to be able to use the back on the Fuji GX680 with leaf shutter lenses and use the 110mm f2 Hasselblad lens with the
focal plane shutter on the DF. When making that choice weather sealing was not an issue for several reasons. First of all the use I intended to make with the
Fuji and the back.... Studio work and "comfortable location".
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FredBGG
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« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2013, 01:59:32 PM »
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Really give me the keys Ill drive it up in reverse. Bad analogy, this is gear we as working Pros will do just about anything with it if the gig is paying well to do it. This is about money and no one worth salt will go oh gee I can't do that job because I don't have weather sealing.

Weather sealing would never be better than good common sense. Drop it in the ocean , nothing will save it. LOL

No one has said you can't do a job because you don't have weather sealing.

Common sense always counts. One should be realistically cautious with ones gear.
But common sense is also choosing a weather sealed camera if the camera is going to be used in  conditions where weather sealing would help.
Obviously that choice has to be balanced with other needs.

No one is saying that if you have a weather sealed camera you can tread it like a dirt bike.

Anyway it's really quite sad that one cannot even have a discussion about the advantages of one MFD fully weather sealed camera compared to other
far less weather sealed MFD cameras with out being jumped on by the Phase One advocates that in many cases hear work in one way or another for/with
Phase One.

I wonder if the issues these other Phase One users could have benefited from better weather sealing ...

As you can see from all of these there are plenty of others with similar problems.... random lockups, jammed shutters...

Quote
by joshshinner » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:43 am

Just wondering how many other people were experiencing lock up problems?

Locking up being where you press to release the shutter and the camera just freezes and locks up,
and in order to get going again you have to either switch it off and on again, or remove the battery
and drain power completely. It's annoying in a normal shoot, however if you have the camera locked off
(ie for car photography) and you have to get the battery out, it is a complete nightmare.

Especially seeing as the battery release on the V Grip is terrible and doesn't pop the battery out, so you either have to use a magnet to get it out, or tip the camera!

This happens mainly in mirror up mode, however it does also happen on single and continuous modes.
We've been telling Phase about this for almost 2 years and they still haven't solved it with new firmware.

firmware on camera is 1.25 and we're using an IQ180.

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by AnGy » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:23 pm

Same problem here.
645 DF was used with a P40+ and now with an IQ180 and locks up sometimes one time over 10 actuations sometimes over 3 or 5 actuations.
Update of firmware to version 1.2.5 did not change anything.


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joshshinner » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:47 am

Hey Drew,

So still no firmware or any sight of anything to fix the immensely irritating lock up problems....
It has been over 2 years and it is mind blowing that Phase have not addressed this issue.
And please don't say we haven't said anything about it,
Phase were first made aware of our issues regarding this well over 18 months ago and we have been promised a fix with every new firmware, yet alas no fix.
The cameras have also been back for repair in that time.

Please tell me when this is going to be sorted?

Not impressed. Still.


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John232 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:17 am

My Phase One DF locks up randomly as well. The camera focuses and functions fine, but pressing the shutter button does nothing.
Usually it does this for a just a frame or two about every 25-50 shots.
 I thought the issue might be a specific lens, but it does it with all my lenses ("D" versions, LS versions and 645 manual lenses).
So I am ruling out lenses as the culprit. About 2 weeks ago the camera just refused to shoot and the batteries had to come out of the camera and back.
That has never happened before.

I think the issue might be the automatic switching between LS and FP,
or something to do when the camera and/or back to come out of their power save modes, or it might be the orientation sensor -
the problem seems to happen more frequently when shooting upwards (such as shooting a skyline or tree canopy immediately above me).
 Right now there are too many variables and the problem is too random for me to lay out a specific cause-effect sequence.
The DF has firmware 1.25 and the P65+ has firmware 5.2.2. The most worrisome part is a random centerfold issue with the P65.
I am pretty sure the shot (file) following lock-up has centerfold.

I've reach out to my Phase dealer, hopefully he'll have some helpful feedback. My gut feeling is that there is something amuck with the DF body.


Quote
joshshinner » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:01 am

John232 wrote:
Right now there are too many variables and the problem is too random for me to lay out a specific cause-effect sequence.


I must say John, this is the most to the point and accurate review of the phase one camera, and it's exactly what I say to anyone asking me about it.
And I completely feel your frustration... when something goes wrong, to start with it could be one of a dozen things,
which when working under time pressure is beyond irritating. Hope you get your problem fixed....


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by NNN634255317662300975 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:15 pm

Same here.
The shutter (in my LS lenses?) sticks shut at the rate of about 1 in 10 shots.
Actually I just sent my body in and the shutter was replaced. But I'm still having the same problem.


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by NN891992 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:24 pm

Hi there

is anyone still having a problem with this

both my iq160 and p30+ on 2 different DF bodies and using different computers on capture one 6.4 and 7.01 shoot occasional frames at a recorded f1

usually happens 1 frame in 100 sometimes a few frames in a row

can happen after a pause or during continuos shooting

body and back firmware up to date

any ideas at all , hyper annoying when working with directing talent into a position.

thanks

Sven
NN891992


Quote
645 DF not recognising leaf shutter lenses
by NN153991UL4 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:54 am

Camera body 645df
Leaf shutter lenses 55mm, 110mm and 120 mm and 80 mm
firmware ver 3. on back

I am having trouble with leaf shutter lenses. The camera is not using the shutter speed when leaf shutter lens is on the front of camera. camera OK with normal lenses.
It overexposes to the point where it is white.

I am trying to update firmware to latest version to see if firmware?software has been corrupted.
I have taken batteries out and reset camera to factrory settings.

Cant run FWupdater error message DLL required to run is missing.


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by HEIKO121 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:59 am

Hello Drew,
Since you lovked the discussion about jamming 80 mm lenses
I had to open a new one. Yes I sold my Phase One equipment.
It is not possible to work with it professionaly, as long as you do not take two lenses of the same kind with you.
And regarding to the repair of the 80 mm lens I have tto tell that it dorsn't work after the repair.
This causes me so much hassle and stress again cause i probably have to take it back.
You claim that you can't help any further because I sold it,
but perhaps you can tell me and the rest of the community how such help could look like?
Perhaps I send you the still not working lens so you can prove yourself that I'm not telling ****** here and prove that phase One offers some service at least?
Kind regards
HEIKO HELLWIG


Quote
by NN8850041 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:11 am

I am onto my third 80mm LS Schneider lens.

This weekend the shutter blades jammed closed and my camera was unusable.
This is the third lens of the same model to do this.
Phase One have replaced my lens every time but I am beginning to lose complete faith in the camera system?
I am shooting in the Maldives early March and I can't afford to have my kit breaking down or out of action.

The digital technician operating my camera and I were both at a loss to explain why the kit was breaking down so consistently.

I am interested to hear from Phase One or anyone with similar experiences?
thanks
Antony
http://www.antonynobilo.com


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by NN163027UL » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:31 pm

I had the same issue 2 weeks into the new lens.
The dealer replaced the lens no questions asked but amazingly annoying.
Now that new lens doesn't auto focus to infiniti. Need to bring it in to be fixed. WTF?!


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by NNN634255317662300975 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:07 pm

I have had very similar problems lately.
During my last job, the shutter in the df body destroyed itselt while shooting.
I rented a second body. Then the shutters in both my LS80mm and LS110mm would stick shut like once in 10 shots.
They make a strange noise and then open back up.
This went on during the whole shoot.
Both the body and the lenses were one and a half months out of warranty.
I sent the body in for repair and the shutter in the body was replaced at full charge.
When I asked about the lenses, phase one's answer was I would have had to pay €350 for them to look at them,
with no guarantee that they would find a fix. In which case the shutters would be replaced at full charge.

That's about the worse service I've ever received in my life. And I'm stuck with two time bombs in my bag.

Anyone else have this problem?


Quote
by NN159009UL4 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:15 am

The shutter on my DF body stuck closed after only 2500 cycles. It has been sent in for repair but frankly,
I am hesitant to make any further additions to this system. My scheduled purchase of the 110 LS is on indefinite hold as I have again been forced to regress to my 1Ds III to complete an upcoming job.
If P1 wants to survive upcoming Japanese competition they should take notice, provide excellent customer support and and meet any responsibility arising from their own manufacturing deficiency.


Quote

by HEIKO121 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:57 pm

You claim that the leaf shutter will work over 100000 actuations and do not repair mine after only 4000?
kind of ridiculous isn´t it? And regarding to my new Nikon, there is a much bigger variety of lenses that you can carry with you and they do not cost a fortune.
On top they do not cost fortunes for repairing them.
And they do not sell me "Schneider" lenses made in Japan.


Quote
by klabton » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:40 am

History of my 80 LS lens..
- repair after +/- 4k shoots (warranty)
- locked again and replaced for a new one. (warranty)
- shutter replace ( paid ) about year ago.
- and the last one, lens locked. Today should arrive... (paid)

(twice repaired shutter in body, once digital back)
I have this gear 2,5 years.....

I don't think, this lens has capacity to take 100k shoots.
I don't even use leaf shutter. But still this lens locks after less than 20000 shots...  

I realize that, after all, the best solution for tethered shooting in studio. Much, much better service than Hass...
Shooting in studio with D800 tethered is a little bit annoying...

What can be done, to improve this system???

« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 02:39:11 PM by FredBGG » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2013, 02:12:40 PM »
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Fred, do you ever change lenses on location?  If so, how?  

And please dont tell me you use a zoom lens.  For someone that is so hell bent on IQ and explaining why the Nikon sensor out performs any MF sensor, if I found out you used a zoom instead of primes, I think I would vomit.

Actually my lenses pretty much live on their camera for most of the time.
I avoid changing them on a windy beach. It's a real pain to have to stop shooting due to sensor dust.
With the relatively low price of DSLR's it's not a problem to have more than one... stick one on each lens needed for the shoot.
I think that in 10 years I've cleaned the sensor on my trusty old Canon 1Ds maybe 4 times.

Anyway I keep a bag of swiffers sheets (the ones with no fragrance... the fragrance is a wee bit oily).
Camera gets wiped off before switching lenses or going back in the bag at the end of shooting.
Those swiffer sheets swallow dust like nothing else and are dirt cheap.... they also get "recycled" to clean the floor.  Wink

Here's a swiffer pulled from the side pocket of my camera bag after a couple of camera wipe downs from working at a windy beach
with a stream running over it. The cameras actually did't really look that dusty


I highly recommend swiffer sheets... they just eat dust, lint... you name it.
IF you rub the swiffer against itself before wiping down it becomes like a dust magnet.

Here is the camera bag after two days shooting. One at the beach and one at Red Rock.



« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 04:37:45 PM by FredBGG » Logged
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2013, 04:10:00 PM »
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Hi,

It is a misconception that primes are better than zooms. In many cases they are better , but some zooms are better than top grade primes. Some zooms, like the Canon 24-70/2.8 wear out and have problems. If you stop down to f/8 or so good zooms will match good primes as both are pretty much limited by diffraction. Zooms can give yo a better crop, if you cannot move.

I would suggest that you need to look at each individual lens, all have strengths and weaknesses. It is not about primes or zooms more about what works and what doesn't work.

Best regards
Erik
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sgilbert
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« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2013, 06:36:16 PM »
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A close call:  I almost posted a response. 
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JoeKitchen
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« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2013, 06:56:43 PM »
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Hi,

It is a misconception that primes are better than zooms. In many cases they are better , but some zooms are better than top grade primes. Some zooms, like the Canon 24-70/2.8 wear out and have problems. If you stop down to f/8 or so good zooms will match good primes as both are pretty much limited by diffraction. Zooms can give yo a better crop, if you cannot move.

I would suggest that you need to look at each individual lens, all have strengths and weaknesses. It is not about primes or zooms more about what works and what doesn't work.

Best regards
Erik

A high quality zoom is better than a standard quality prime.  But a prime that has the same amount of capital invested in the R&D would (in my opinion) be better than a zoom with the same amount of investment.  This is especially the case if you are worried about barrel or pin cushion distortion.  I have yet to work with a zoom that does not get either at both ends of the zoom.  There are many wide primes that have no distortion (or too little to notice with out have a grid over laying them).  

For shooting people, where depth of field and straight lines are not as much an issue, not really a worry.  For architecture, totally different.  Hell, I used the Canon 35mm L series lens the other day, which is by many fashion guys I know, suppose to be a really good lens.  It has serious barrel distortion. 
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 06:59:30 PM by JoeKitchen » Logged

Joe Kitchen
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #66 on: March 29, 2013, 08:31:22 PM »
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A close call:  I almost posted a response.  

Me too . What a scary thought too. Actually I wrote 3 and out of better judgement deleted them but it was the same thoughts. Lol

Pathetic comes to mind
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 08:32:56 PM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2013, 09:35:42 PM »
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Hi,

Much of the effort going into a high quality prime is intended to improve performance at large apertures.

You are absolutely right about distortion.

Best regards
Erik


A high quality zoom is better than a standard quality prime.  But a prime that has the same amount of capital invested in the R&D would (in my opinion) be better than a zoom with the same amount of investment.  This is especially the case if you are worried about barrel or pin cushion distortion.  I have yet to work with a zoom that does not get either at both ends of the zoom.  There are many wide primes that have no distortion (or too little to notice with out have a grid over laying them).  

For shooting people, where depth of field and straight lines are not as much an issue, not really a worry.  For architecture, totally different.  Hell, I used the Canon 35mm L series lens the other day, which is by many fashion guys I know, suppose to be a really good lens.  It has serious barrel distortion. 
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FredBGG
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« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2013, 10:41:56 PM »
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For shooting people, where depth of field and straight lines are not as much an issue, not really a worry.  For architecture, totally different.  Hell, I used the Canon 35mm L series lens the other day, which is by many fashion guys I know, suppose to be a really good lens.  It has serious barrel distortion.  


Quote
The lens shows a slight but still visible degree of barrel distortions (0.5%).



Serious barrel distortion?
It's barely visible on a test grid with guides.

Phase One Schneider 55mm LS documentation says it has just over 1%. Still excellent, but not quite as good as the Canon



Lets look at a wider focal length.

Canon 17mm that is also a tilt shift lens.


Quote
Ultra-wide lenses tend to be a bit "laissez-faire" when it comes to distortions but the Canon TS-E 17mm f/4 L plays in a different league here.
It shows only a slight barrel barrel distortion of just over 1.1% albeit based on a somewhat wavy subfrequency. This is highly impressive for a lens in this class.

Schneider 28mm not a tilt shift lens shows more distortion.



1.8% to over 2%







« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 11:06:08 PM by FredBGG » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2013, 11:15:35 PM »
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A high quality zoom is better than a standard quality prime.  But a prime that has the same amount of capital invested in the R&D would (in my opinion) be better than a zoom with the same amount of investment.  This is especially the case if you are worried about barrel or pin cushion distortion.

Regarding Zooms.

Lets look at the Nikon 70-200mm 2.8 VRII and its distortion.

70mm

Less than 0.5%

135mm

1.4%

Lets compare that to Phase One fixed focal length lenses.
110mm 2.8LS
About 0.5%... same as the 70-200 @70mm

150mm 3.5LS
About 1.0%

240 4.5LS
About .5 to 1%  only one a bit better than the 70-200mm

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Paul Ozzello
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« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2013, 11:15:59 PM »
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Serious barrel distortion?
It's barely visible on a test grid with guides.

Phase One Schneider 55mm LS documentation says it has just over 1%. Still excellent, but not quite as good as the Canon



Lets look at a wider focal length.




Schneider better, you're comparing the Canon 35 on a cropped sensor. Here is the same lens full frame.


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FredBGG
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« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2013, 11:50:23 PM »
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Schneider better, you're comparing the Canon 35 on a cropped sensor. Here is the same lens full frame.




Thanks for pointing that out. However the two lenses are still really close. 1.25% vs 1.5%.

My point is that both are excellent as far as distortion goes.

A software correction of both if needed would correct this with very little impact on sharpness
as a 1-1.5% correction is very minimal.
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Paul Ozzello
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« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2013, 12:00:55 AM »
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Thanks for pointing that out. However the two lenses are still really close. 1.25% vs 1.5%.


That's a difference of 20% - the same difference between a B- and an A+  Wink
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Paul Ozzello
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« Reply #73 on: March 30, 2013, 12:54:21 AM »
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Canon 17mm that is also a tilt shift lens.


Schneider 28mm not a tilt shift lens shows more distortion.

1.8% to over 2%


I'm more concerned with the significant dip halfway through the frame:



There are plenty of compositions where important features will fall into this lower sharpness ring, that said images can be quite pleasing even with quite strong sharpness falloff, even dramatic falloff can be quite stylish - however I think one would prefer to blur in post rather than be stuck with it.

If I was using that lens for portraiture similar in style to Bill Brandt



I would be concerned about not being able to properly focus that lens on the model's eyelashes.


Paul
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 01:40:13 AM by Paul Ozzello » Logged

Paul Ozzello
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« Reply #74 on: March 30, 2013, 01:26:46 AM »
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Thanks for pointing that out. However the two lenses are still really close. 1.25% vs 1.5%.

My point is that both are excellent as far as distortion goes.

A software correction of both if needed would correct this with very little impact on sharpness
as a 1-1.5% correction is very minimal.

According to the photozone site you reference:  "The lens generates a slight to moderate amount of barrel distortion" which seems to reflect Joe's experience with the lens, not an ideal lens for architecture but passable with software correction.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #75 on: March 30, 2013, 02:04:14 AM »
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Hi,

I think what the MTF curve shows is a wavy field, which means that the focal plane shifts back and forth along the image plane. MTF will improve if you put focus in the weak area.

I have seen some quite impressive images from that lens and it even covers medium format, when used on a Hartblei HCam.

Best regards
Erik

I'm more concerned with the significant dip halfway through the frame:



There are plenty of compositions where important features will fall into this lower sharpness ring, that said images can be quite pleasing even with quite strong sharpness falloff, even dramatic falloff can be quite stylish - however I think one would prefer to blur in post rather than be stuck with it.

If I was using that lens for portraiture similar in style to Bill Brandt



I would be concerned about not being able to properly focus that lens on the model's eyelashes.


Paul
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #76 on: March 30, 2013, 02:37:57 AM »
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Hi,

Some of us (like me) love live view and don't want a camera without. Some of us (like you) do fine without live view.

Best regards
Erik

Hmm, something I do that all the time. I seem to muddle through without live view.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #77 on: March 30, 2013, 03:04:17 AM »
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Hi,

Getting back to the original posting.

I got the impression that the Pentax 645D is a good match for OPs needs. It's in the same price region as the Leica M (by and large). It is said to do long exposures.

I am pretty sure that weather proofing is an advantage, even if most cameras are not weather proofed and still work just fine. Fred BG is right about weather proofing also keeping sand, dust and humidity out of the system.

The OP asked about long exposures and my understanding is that the P45+ back was an excellent performer in that area and the DALSA sensors did not allow very long exposures. The new IQ280 has a new sensor co-developed with Phase One that has excellent long exposure capability.

Best regards
Erik






Hi all.
I have been exploring the option of purchasing a medium format system and I primarily shoot landscape images.

My current endeavours have had me looking at the Pentax 645D system and the 25/55/90mm lenses, as well as some others such as the 35mm and 150mm options as well.

Along the way I have also taken a look at the Phase One system, mainly the 40 and 60mp back options, along with the new IQ260 which looks awesome.

I have been shooting with a Leica M9 for years now and have recently sold it and ordered a new M, while using a Sony Nex6 for the duration as a substitute and quite like it.

The main reason for the post is that I may cancel my new Leica M order and get into a MF system, and continue to use a current and future Nex system for travel and any time I need a lightweight system.

My main concern with the new Leica M is that it can only shoot to a maximum exposure time of 1 minute.  I do a lot of seascapes and would like to get into a little more night work as well as some architecture work, and exposure times longer than 1 minute would be a must I feel.

So, questions to raise are as follows:

How is the long exposure on the Pentax 645D?

How is the future of the 645D looking, are we likely to see a new model soon with higher resolution and live view (mainly for more accurate landscape focusing)?

What is the quality of the Pentax lenses over those offered for the phase one 645DF body?

Anybody out there directly compared the image quality of the IQ backs to the Pentax 645D?

Is the investment of the IQ260 and associated system worth the extra $$$ over the Pentax for somebody who is not yet selling prints?  I shoot for a hobby mainly.


Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks, Scott
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gerald.d
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« Reply #78 on: March 30, 2013, 03:05:26 AM »
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Hi,

Getting back to the original posting.

I got the impression that the Pentax 645D is a good match for OPs needs. It's in the same price region as the Leica M (by and large). It is said to do long exposures.

I am pretty sure that weather proofing is an advantage, even if most cameras are not weather proofed and still work just fine. Fred BG is right about weather proofing also keeping sand, dust and humidity out of the system.

The OP asked about long exposures and my understanding is that the P45+ back was an excellent performer in that area and the DALSA sensors did not allow very long exposures. The new IQ280 has a new sensor co-developed with Phase One that has excellent long exposure capability.

Best regards
Erik

"The new IQ260..."
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FredBGG
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« Reply #79 on: March 30, 2013, 09:06:33 PM »
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According to the photozone site you reference:  "The lens generates a slight to moderate amount of barrel distortion" which seems to reflect Joe's experience with the lens, not an ideal lens for architecture but passable with software correction.

Joe's words were quite different

Quote
Serious barrel distortion
.
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