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Author Topic: Canson Papers All Contain No OBA ?  (Read 1246 times)
deanwork
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« on: March 26, 2013, 09:09:18 AM »
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I didn't realize this until recently but according to Wilhelm's chart here NONE of the Canson papers, even the rc gloss media have OBAs present.

Is it true they are using pigment whiteners for all of them? This chart says even the RC media is oba free with exceptional longevity.

That thick Satin Premium paper looks like something I need to transition over to now. Just ordered some to try out.

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/Canson/canson_infinity.html

john
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2013, 10:05:43 AM »
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The 3 Canson RC papers that I measured have OBA content.
The Canon Baryta Photographique has a low content of OBA according Aardenburg and I see signs of it too in the spectral plot. Ilford Gold Fibre Silk as well.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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deanwork
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2013, 10:23:24 AM »
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I guess it shouldn't surprise me that Wilhelm is posting inaccurate information again. That's sad. It isn't a typo because he is doing it with all the gloss type Canson papers. Look at how totally different these are from the Hahnemuhle papers as a whole with all the inks. I didn't think that there were any gloss papers with pigment whiteners ( why I would like to know though ).

It just seems totally weird to me that he is giving such huge stability data on ALL of the Canson papers like they were the same thing.
What the hell?Huh? Is he loosing it or what? Somebody is totally wrong here and I don't think it is Ernst.

john

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/Canson/canson_infinity.html
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MHMG
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2013, 03:13:42 PM »
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The source of the confusion may originate with the manufacturer and not Wilhelm (albeit, an independent lab should probably double check any claims being made by the manufacturer whenever possible).

When Canson first got into the fine art digital media game, its entire line was indeed OBA free, and Canson proudly boasted about it... often and with gusto. That may be the source of the confusion in the minds of current Canson customers and at Wilhelm Imaging Research.  Since then, Canson Baryta Photographique as well as other Canson photo media (e.g., Photo HighGloss Premium RC, PhotoGloss Premium RC, and Photo Satin Premium RC) have been added to Canson's lineup. These media do contain OBAs. But you don't have to take mine or anyone else's word for it. Just train a backlight (available at any hardware store) on the paper in question and if OBA is present it will plainly fluoresce, the magnitude of that fluorescence being roughly correlated with the amount of OBA in the media.  OBA-free papers do not flouresce under the backlight.

Of greater interest (and concern) to me in the cited Wilhelm report is that Baryta Photographique and Platine Fiber Rag are now listed twice.  The second listing states "(Improved)" and "now in test" so no results yet. Unfortunately, what got improved is not stated. Is this a reformulation of these products with new chemical/physical permanence properties that printmakers using this product are likely to encounter if they have old stock versus new stock, or is Wilhelm referring to an "improved testing protocol" or retest of the same formula because Canson perhaps didn't like the somewhat lower scores Wilhelm originally published for those two media?

I note, for example, that Epson's Digigraphie certification program has opened up to third party media such as Hahnemuhle and Canson, but there is a 60 year print longevity specification that must be met. Go figure that a high OBA paper with poor media whitepoint stability like Epson Traditional Photo paper (Exhibition Fiber paper here in the U.S) manages to jump that 60 year rating hurdle using the defacto industry light fade test methods, but the Canson Baryta Photographique and the Canson Platine are not elligible for inclusion in the Digigraphie program according to the published Wilhelm results.

Inquiring minds want to know Wink

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 03:47:11 PM by MHMG » Logged
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2013, 05:02:59 PM »
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Wilhelm showed similar confusing data before. Tests that kept an endless test in progress label. OBA content not correct on more papers than Canson only.

While there are other issues with OBA papers be aware that OBA content does not tell all about longevity. For example the Canon Heavyweight Satin RC has some OBA but could have been a good quality for Epson's Digigraphie catalog given the excellent Aardenburg test.  Of course not likely to happen and worse it is discontinued as I understand it. A real shame no company adds it to its catalog. There are OBA free papers that shift their white in time too so good testing that includes the paper white is necessary.

Ernst, op de lei getypt.
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deanwork
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 05:09:38 PM »
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God, it's really gotten bizarre out there Mark.

Wilhelm doesn't bother to test for OBA whiteners in any of the Canson tests with ANY of the inksets?
Isn't this partly what he is in business for? He takes some corporate salesman's word for it? Wow that's rad.

Look at these across the board figures for Wilhelm's Canson tests:

Canson RC Satin and Gloss WITH OBA  and Canon inks - 175 years behind uv glass

Canson Platine - no whiteners  and a 100% rag media, Canon inks - 130 years behind uv glass ( maybe it does need improving :-)

or with HP Vivera inks - Canson Rag Photographique no oba -  >450 years / Canson RC Satin  with oba -  >450 years /

Guess we should abandon the expensive 100% rag Canson media with pigment brighteners since these far less expensive rc papers test as good or better? They can't have it both ways, ( or can they ?? )

The other really odd thing about these tests is he doesn't distinguish between monochrome tests and color tests, now they are all lumped into one test....

john

« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 05:14:54 PM by deanwork » Logged
deanwork
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 05:13:42 PM »
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Ernst,

Canon doesn't sell the Heavyweight Satin anymore.

It has been replace by a thinner " Satin Photo Paper 240 gsm" . Prints look the same but who knows what it is.

john

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