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Author Topic: MF Entry with PhaseOne ?  (Read 7330 times)
sebastian_kubatz
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« on: March 31, 2013, 08:02:51 AM »
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Hey everyone,

I had the opportunity to use the Hasselblad H4D and PhaseOne P45+ and IQ160 on several occasions.
I'm really stoked by the image quality they deliver but felt really comfortable using the PhaseOne system.

So I've been thinking about making the move into the medium format world for about a year at least.
Living in uncertain times right now I'm not sure if it is a good idea to spend so much money.
I'm just finishing my bachelor thesis in about 2 months and from there on everything still seems doubtful in terms of future work or internship abroad.
I'm not a starving student are anything like that. I do have to money for a medium format system and I do not need to raise a credit to buy me into the medium format world.
But with all that in mind I was thinking about how good the resale value of a PhaseOne medium format system is right now.
It might be the case that I'll need that money in one or two years and will have to sell the whole system.
So does anyone of you know anything about the resale value? Any experiences?
Other than that where would you sell the system? Would you insert it on a forum like this or does PhaseOne buy those used systems?

Also I'm thinking about an IQ160 or IQ260 right now.
I'm not shooting a lot in a studio... most of the time I'm on location and need to judge the image on the screen. So the P+ series is not an option for me right now.

I hope someone can help me with my decision.
Thanks a lit in advance and Happy Easter to everyone!

Sebastian
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eronald
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 08:15:20 AM »
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I resold my MF system recently via this forum.

I got some money back but nothing like I paid for it - camera gear depreciates almost as fast as  electronics.

The good thing is that the resale value of an MF system will allow you to buy a mass of different equipment of about the same age, so in effect you are not locked into your MF choices, especially I guess if you have a good dealer who is willing to organize the swap.

Edmund


Hey everyone,

I had the opportunity to use the Hasselblad H4D and PhaseOne P45+ and IQ160 on several occasions.
I'm really stoked by the image quality they deliver but felt really comfortable using the PhaseOne system.

So I've been thinking about making the move into the medium format world for about a year at least.
Living in uncertain times right now I'm not sure if it is a good idea to spend so much money.
I'm just finishing my bachelor thesis in about 2 months and from there on everything still seems doubtful in terms of future work or internship abroad.
I'm not a starving student are anything like that. I do have to money for a medium format system and I do not need to raise a credit to buy me into the medium format world.
But with all that in mind I was thinking about how good the resale value of a PhaseOne medium format system is right now.
It might be the case that I'll need that money in one or two years and will have to sell the whole system.
So does anyone of you know anything about the resale value? Any experiences?
Other than that where would you sell the system? Would you insert it on a forum like this or does PhaseOne buy those used systems?

Also I'm thinking about an IQ160 or IQ260 right now.
I'm not shooting a lot in a studio... most of the time I'm on location and need to judge the image on the screen. So the P+ series is not an option for me right now.

I hope someone can help me with my decision.
Thanks a lit in advance and Happy Easter to everyone!

Sebastian
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Pics2
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 08:34:09 AM »
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In general, Phase One backs have better resale value than Leaf, and even Hasselblad. Precisely, P+ series P65+ and especially P45+.
There are a lot of factors determining the success of your sale. Where you live(it's easier to sell in big markets - US and EU then in Africa), is there an economical crises at the time of sale, how patient you are (it can take ages to sell, answering to numerous questions of potential and not so potential buyers) - it's pain in the a..., you could say.
I've seen people losing a lot of money at the time purchase. They are buying equipment that doesn't suit their needs. I've seen them selling it few months later. They bought the equipment from skilled sellers for high price and since they are not skilled sellers themselves, they sell it way too cheap. I've never seen more stupid way to lose the money.
So buy wisely, that's the most important thing.
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Paul2660
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 09:18:59 AM »
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If you are running a depreciation schedule on your back of choice, against your business, then the choice you make is a bit more complicated now. 

The value of a used 160 IMO has come down with the announcement of the 260.  The 260 has yet to show all of it's true capabilities but as time rolls on I expect it to.  Another issue is the "perceived need" for a new 160.  I really don't believe there is much of that now with the 260 announcement.  Perceived need drives residual value.  Most people that were considering a new 160 will move to the 260.  Another question is when the 260 stars to ship, will it have all it's expected features available or will Phase One implement some of them later with firmware updates. Examples of this on previous backs:

P45+ and  1 hour exposures at initial ship.  A firmware release was needed and it came some time after first ship.  The firmware did deliver the 1 hour exposures.  Mine was purchased in March of 2008.  At that time I was told by the dealer to only consider a 30 minute maximum exposure until the firmware fix was delivered.  I don't remember the actual date of the release of the firmware.  I did not attempt to take my back to the necessary firmware till 2010. 

IQ Series, USB 3.  Not available at 1st ship and is just now coming on line with a beta firmware.  I have not followed it that closely but the results seem positive.

Phase to my knowledge has always delivered on promised features which again helps on a back's residual value.

Then this leaves open the used market for 160's and what the price point for these will be.  That price point will most likely not get very solid till the 260 starts to ship in volume at the beginning of the 3rd quarter of 2013.  If a used 160 has value add warranty left or not will be a factor on price since Phase allows the value add to move with the serial of the back. 

P45+ value seems to be holding in the same range, however as more of the images from the 260 come out, this also may drop a bit. 

Lot to consider before you make your decision.

Paul Caldwell
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2013, 10:48:40 AM »
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Cameras are not investment tools. If you cannot afford or willing to take a loss, do not buy.

You are finishing a thesis? Then you are not a photo student. This is a personal purchase and so buy it if you want it. Unless you have some great contacts, you are hardly going to get a great job in photography--it is a really competitive business and supply is far greater than demand. If you are pursuing your own projects, you might find the most expensive part is not the camera.

Hold onto the cash until you know what you are doing.
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Paul2660
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2013, 11:14:18 AM »
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If you run a business or use a camera in your business, I would disagree. A camera is like any other piece of equipment, in a business, it can and should be depreciated over time depending on your tax schedule, just like a vehicle, studio, etc.  I am not using the camera as investment tool I use it as a tool to further my photographic business.   I am simply depreciating it over a set schedule the way it's done in most business models I am aware of, small or large.  At the cost of entry in MFD it's a mistake to overlook real world dollar issues such as depreciation and value over time.

Paul Caldwell
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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2013, 11:39:04 AM »
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This is the really hard question these days for anyone who is not (a) amortizing the gear in paying work or (b) rich beyond caring. 

The depreciation on new MF backs is kind of staggering. I recently turned down a basically new H4D-60 for well under $20K, because I can't be sure it will have any value four years from now.  Now granted, it would have ongoing value as a great photographic tool, but I need to maintain some liquidity in my capital investment. There is a good chance that one of the major MF cos. will not be around in four or five years, and even a measurable chance that neither will (a sad thought).

For $4000 to $600 a year in depreciation, plus opportunity cost on the capital, I can rent when I really need one quite a few times, and in particular if I (loose my mind and) take paying work.

FWIW, however, the P65+ is now in a pretty sweet place for value. Indeed, the P45s are starting to be downright reasonable, as are HD3-39s.  To say it these can't be used for outdoor work is simply untrue. 

We all have to make peace with our own wallets...so have fun!

- N.
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2013, 12:16:48 PM »
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Hey everyone,

I had the opportunity to use the Hasselblad H4D and PhaseOne P45+ and IQ160 on several occasions.
I'm really stoked by the image quality they deliver but felt really comfortable using the PhaseOne system.

So I've been thinking about making the move into the medium format world for about a year at least.
Living in uncertain times right now I'm not sure if it is a good idea to spend so much money.
I'm just finishing my bachelor thesis in about 2 months and from there on everything still seems doubtful in terms of future work or internship abroad.
I'm not a starving student are anything like that. I do have to money for a medium format system and I do not need to raise a credit to buy me into the medium format world.
But with all that in mind I was thinking about how good the resale value of a PhaseOne medium format system is right now.
It might be the case that I'll need that money in one or two years and will have to sell the whole system.
So does anyone of you know anything about the resale value? Any experiences?
Other than that where would you sell the system? Would you insert it on a forum like this or does PhaseOne buy those used systems?

Also I'm thinking about an IQ160 or IQ260 right now.
I'm not shooting a lot in a studio... most of the time I'm on location and need to judge the image on the screen. So the P+ series is not an option for me right now.

I hope someone can help me with my decision.
Thanks a lit in advance and Happy Easter to everyone!

Sebastian

Hi, unless you have a LOT of money to spare and/or make good money with your photography gear I would not buy a MFDB system.

The D800e basically killed the lower end MFDB market for many photography applications including landscape. (For people photography the depth of field and color characteristics of the larger chips are still a factor for a lot of photographers so there is a niche, and also for people who want/need to use a technical camera). The dynamic range of the D800e is amazing and the cleanliness of the deep shadows is unmatched in any digital camera imho. The color depth is also great and only slightly bested by the IQ160 and IQ180 and slightly by the P65+.

And once Canon releases their high MP DSLR the resale value of the lower MP backs will probably decrease further. They have some awesome lenses that can take advantage of it.

The MFDBs are lacking several key features that would make them MUCH more versatile and easy to use. Live View is the most significant, specially for technical camera users. Phase One has found some workarounds to achieve it in their most recent backs, kinda, its implementation is a bit rough still and not that convenient. You can mount MFDBs on several SLRs (mainly 645's) for a quasi integrated MF Digital Camera solution. But its still a bit dated compared to the best DSLRs (Phase One is working on an all new camera to replace the 645DF+ which its core they basically inherited from Mamiya (645). Phase One has worked hard to upgrade their lens line. It has lots of good choices now. Hasselblad has some good options and a lot of good lenses for their system.

I would not count on resale value. But it's best to buy a used back obviously so as not to take as large a hit if and when you sell it.

Right now the best back for the money is the Phase One P65+, specially if you want to use it on a technical camera. It basically has the same image quality as an IQ160. Next would be the Pentax 645D (if you do not need a technical camera). If you want a great people / studio camera the Hasselblad H4D-40 can be had at great prices.
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« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2013, 01:00:53 PM »
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Hi Sebastian

Before replying to your questions I took a look at your website to get a better idea
of what type of photography you do.

First let me say that your work is really nice. I see quite a mature look to your work... it does not look like
the work of a young student.
You portraits of women are really nice. Beautiful and strong while being "delicately beautiful".
I like the compositions... in particular because they are not "formula based".

You landscape work is excellent too.

I also see you are a student and want to travel, I imagine both for access to landscapes and fashion/beauty markets.

As an excellent portrait/fashion photographer and landscape photographer the Phase One and Hasselblad systems could be a good fit for you
if selling large 40x60 inch landscape work is part of your bushiness plan.

However I see from your portrait work that you like to shoot shallow depth of field. There are two things you should keep in mind regarding this.
Hasselblad has the better focusing system for shallow depth of field if used within it's limitations true focus will be an advantage.
However the Phase One system has another shallow depth of field advantage over Hasselblad in that the DF has a top shutter speed of 1/4000th
This will hake it easier to shoot wide open if you are out in bright light.
However the DF body is not the strong point of the system as it has issues and apparently the new DF+ has problems to;
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-digital-backs/44999-focusing-df.html
Quote
Dan Santoso wrote:
I had very bad experience with DF+

1st : very slow focus, will not lock even outdoor.
2nd : Defective viewfinder out of the box
3rd : Demo unit so I can play around, much better than first body.
4th : finally open my 3rd unit out of the box, focus beat all 3 previous copy. faster. So I bought it.

I just found out last week that my body produces softer images than the demo unit 645 DF my dealer uses. It is very obvious in side by side comparison. Micro adjust will not fix it because it does nothing at all.

I am sending it for service.

So after 4 experiences with DF+ body, my conclusion is that phase one has very bad QC problem!!

another in the thread has other problems:
Quote
Steve Cor wrote:
I have 2 issues with my 645DF+, but they are not with the autofocus.

I don't have any complaints about the autofocus. I think Jack said he doesn't need the second and third tap anymore with accuracy mode.

One issue is, I have to setup the custom fuctions I want every time I use the camera. When the camera is off for a while, it forgets them.

The other thing I've found is, the autofocus assist beam can actually come on during an exposure. Then the red beam on the subject would ruin the picture, like this example:

However IMO neither come close to what you can do with a D800 (or top of the line Canon) when it comes to shallow depth of field and precision focus.
There is a much larger choice of faster of lenses with shallower depth of field and far superior focusing, both manual and automatic.

Regarding depreciation of the value of MF digital it is quite staggering.

Plenty of examples around of how much is lost on the resale of high end MFDB.

Quote
This is a pristine Phase One IQ180, 80-megapixel digital back, with only 1,150 actuations. The Value-Added Warranty is good until June 2016. I purchased this back from Capture Integration in June 2011.

This back despite being mint and still having 3 years of value added warranty it sold for $22,500 (that was what it was last offered for when it sold).
It's $47,740.00 new at Calumet. That is a $ 25,000 loss.

Quote
Up for auction is this Phase One IQ160 digital back in a Hasselblad H mount.

This is a gently used item in mint condition. This digital back has been owned by a single owner, a professional photographer who carefully houses all his equipment.
 
Warranty available. Purchased new on 6/18/2012 with a transferable warranty good thru 6/18/2013.

The back was used mostly in studio with only 8901 actuations.
This did not sell for $ 21,000 even though it's practically new still under warranty and $14,000 less than new.

IF you do buy, this is the kind of deal you should look for so as to not take the hit of being a first owner of a back.

Two years from know who knows what MFD gear will be worth money wise especially if we look at the faster progress being made in 35mm DSLRs.
We are on the verge of a rather big change. Sony, Canon and Nikon are all working on non bayer array sensors along the lines of the Sigma foveon
sensor. This has the potential of changing things dramatically.

Another thing you must consider as a professional photographer is back up gear. You cannot rely on a single camera or camera and back.
IF you are sellling MFD as your format to your clients as you should to cover the extra cost you cannot really have them accept another format as backup.
A client will not really see the difference if he does not know, but changing half way through the job can be a problem.
Either way it can be an issue. IF he's satisfied with the results from your backup camera they he will ask why use MFD... slower, more expensive etc etc.
IF a bit of a catch 22 situation. A D800 as a backup for MFD is such a worthy backup that it could simply do the job in the first place.

Going back to depreciation. Lets look at lenses for a moment.
Phase One lenses depreciate significantly while Nikon and Canon lenses hold their value much better. (I'm obviously talking
about money value as the best Nikon, Canon and Phase One lenses are all brilliant lenses). On top of that Nikon and Canon lenses sell very quickly as the market is huge.

You mentioned internship... well one thing you could consider is making yourself available as a MFD assistant with camera package.
When I rented MFD I always preferred to rent from an assistant/photographer. This could be a good way to increase access to assisting jobs and access to certain types of shoots. However that is dependent on a continued demand for MFD in that area.


One last word of advice. In my opinion at this point in your career there are much better things to spend your money on.
The quality difference between a D800 and a digital back is not that significant at all compared to what travelling can do for you.
If it's fashion... going to work for a stint in Milan, Paris and New York will do much more for you than a few megapixels.

Another thing to consider is the look of larger formats and fashion.... The difference in look between a D800 and a MFDB
is not really all that different. However if you are looking for a significantly different look one should consider film and larger than 645 MF or large format.
What is interesting about it is that the investment in gear is very small. Personally I find that a combination of for example a D800 system and a 6x7 or 6x8
film camera is far more empowering as far as looks go than a MFD. There is also a certain something about how film is perceived.
Everyone shoots digital.. not many shoot film.

For landscape photography.... well travel is the number one ingredient. IF you also consider what stitching can do for ultra high res landscape
this argument is even stronger.

To help put this discussion into perspective here is a comparison between MFD 40MP and D800.

Photogy article here:

http://www.photigy.com/nikon-d800e-test-review-vs-hasselblad-h4d40-35mm-against-medium-format/

Full frame



Crops



In reality both have a quality level to cover just about anything except a side by side comparison
of a 40x60 print shot with an 80MP on a technical camera and great lens.

Here is a comparison between an iq180 and a D800E

http://www.circleofconfusion.ie/d800e-vs-phase-one-iq180/





« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 03:27:48 AM by FredBGG » Logged
Paul2660
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« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2013, 02:31:36 PM »
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Fred,

Good points, especially on a back up solution.  It does tend to get expensive if you intend to have a back MFD digital solution.  Knowing I wanted to lead with MFD in my work, I choose to pay the extra for the Value Add warranty.  In my years of ownership of MFD, I used the Value Add on my P45+ 4 times, each time I had a working replacement in 24 hours.  In the case of my 160, I have used the value add once and again received a replacement in 24 hours.  Each time the replacement was either the same level or one camera higher.  I realize in the studio, if a camera goes down, no value add will help continue the shoot.  In my workflow the value add turn around has always been fine.

However on the IQ180 example, I would be surprised if the original owner paid list.  When Phase first announced the 180, they had a trade-in offer for P65+ users that was excellent.  Since that time, Phase has continued to offer upgrade offers for various IQ solutions.  If the owner of your 180 example was purchased in 2011, more than likely it was part of this type of upgrade.  Also the warranty reference is a value add warranty since it runs through the 2016 year.  If the owner of the 180 took advantage of the original upgrade/trade-in offer by Phase One, they paid much less than the list price of 47K. 

Of course you have to also consider their book position of the P65+, and where it was on a depreciation schedule. 

Paul Caldwell


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« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2013, 03:19:02 PM »
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Hello Sebastian,

In my opinion donít waste you hard earned money on medium format gear.

Sebastian if you can speak English I would be happy to phone you and explain my reasoning.

Ciao

Simon
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« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2013, 03:49:12 PM »
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If you run a business or use a camera in your business, I would disagree. A camera is like any other piece of equipment, in a business, it can and should be depreciated over time depending on your tax schedule, just like a vehicle, studio, etc.  I am not using the camera as investment tool I use it as a tool to further my photographic business.   I am simply depreciating it over a set schedule the way it's done in most business models I am aware of, small or large.  At the cost of entry in MFD it's a mistake to overlook real world dollar issues such as depreciation and value over time.

Paul Caldwell


Right, you depreciate it over time and get the tax benefit. When the life of the equipments is over, so is its value. To sell it means you need to square that with your taxes.

So, tell me, what will the value of an IQ160 be in say 5 years? Lets pretend you can predict the future and know about all the technical advances and pricing that can take place. You are not entitled to any particular resale value. If you need to run a business, I would advise that the resale value of secondhand gear not be part of that model.
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« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2013, 04:01:30 PM »
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I would rent the equipment and then bill your client. It is rather a lot of money to spend when you don't have any work.

However, is money is not an issue and this is simply something fun you would like to have, then get an MFD camera. You won't get your money back, but you can have fun taking photographs.
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« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2013, 04:29:21 PM »
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Sebastian,

I think the main question is not about the investment or how to resell the gear sooner or later. The main question is in how far do you feel limited with the camera you are using now and why do you think MFD will be an improvement ... ?
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« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2013, 05:27:23 PM »
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It doesn't sound like you have budgetary constraints---at least not in terms of missing putting food on the table.

Life is short.  Shoot with whatever gives you the most photographic enjoyment---regardless of platform.

 Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2013, 06:38:28 PM »
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Wow.
Thanks to everyone for the input. I didn't expect so many people to join in here. Thanks a lot to all of you.
Well I guess there are a lot more things to consider than I thought.

I will meet up with my PhaseOne dealer next friday and talk with him about all that.

First of all I thought electronic prices in that price range would be a lot more stable. Like when buying a TAGHeuer, IWC or Breitling.

I resold my MF system recently via this forum.

Why did you sell your system, Edmund?

Lot to consider before you make your decision.

You're right Paul.... lot's of things to consider.
Thanks for the extra information you provide.

Hold onto the cash until you know what you are doing.

That's the way I always went up to now. So yeah, you're right with that.

To say it these can't be used for outdoor work is simply untrue. 

I didn't say that. It's just personal preference. I'm not going to spend that much money and have a display and menu that's worse than my old 5D2. Wink
 
Sebastian,

I think the main question is not about the investment or how to resell the gear sooner or later. The main question is in how far do you feel limited with the camera you are using now and why do you think MFD will be an improvement ... ?

Thomas,

I do own a 5D2 and several really good lenses. But when talking about MFD it's a whole other league image quality wise.
And what I noticed while shooting MFD is the whole process of taking pictures gets slowed down so you appreciate the moment a lot more.

Other than that there are clients demanding MFD.


Hello Sebastian,
In my opinion donít waste you hard earned money on medium format gear.
Sebastian if you can speak English I would be happy to phone you and explain my reasoning.
Ciao
Simon

Hey Simon,
thanks a lot for the offer. I'll send you a PM asap.



I also thought about renting a medium format system for several jobs.
But then I do travel a lot and why wouldn't I want to always have the best image quality available with me.


Like I said, a lot of things to consider and now after reading all your comments there is even more to think about.  Shocked

Anyway thanks a lot to all of you guys.
More comments are really appreciated.

cheers,
Sebastian   
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« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2013, 07:10:55 PM »
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I do own a 5D2 and several really good lenses. But when talking about MFD it's a whole other league image quality wise.
And what I noticed while shooting MFD is the whole process of taking pictures gets slowed down so you appreciate the moment a lot more.
cheers,
Sebastian

I shot with Canon (5D2 and 1Ds series) for a long time, but recently switched to the Nikon D800. The sensor in the D800
is a game changer, better all round. I still have a couple of Canon's and they served me very well and can only speak highly of Canon service.
I expect Canon to match or exceed Nikon in it's next offerings.

Regarding the whole process being slowed down... you should not let the camera dictate the speed at which you work, at least not when you want to slow down.
The speed at which I work is my own choice, but I prefer to do so with a camera that will let me throw in a fast burst of frames if something happens like a gust of wind
or a models reaction like a burst of laughter etc.
There are times where I will work slower with a DSLR (either MF or 35mm) than with film.

A little while ago I was shooting an a-list comedian and he threw insults at me for shooting one frame here and one frame there.....
hey but when Don Rickles throws and insult at you it is the highest compliment you can get.



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« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2013, 08:21:24 PM »
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Yes, before you jump into medium format test out the D800e. Also, try to take your current gear to the limit of its performance. That means using the best lenses available at optimum apertures with perfect technique and then printing it as large as possible in increments and looking critically close at the print. Usually that means working methodically slow on a tripod. No matter which camera.

IMHO, on a 20x30in print you might be at the limit of any Canon DSLR. (I am talking single image capture) The D800e can print much larger, about 40-60in, and has at least similar quality to all but the 60-80MP backs in regards to resolution but its amazingly clean and deep shadow detail makes it superior in some situations. Keep in mind that not all of the DSLR lenses are up to the task.

That is where the Leica S2 rules supreme. Lens quality. So do not rule it out if budget is not an issue. If it is, check out the Pentax 645D. Huge lens selection on the used market. If you work with flash and mostly tethered the Hasselblad is a great choice and also the Phase. If you work with technical cameras the newer PhaseOne IQ Backs are unbeatable. Also, the upcoming IQ260 is probably the best all around MFDB ever made from what I have seen posted (including some full quality files).
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eronald
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« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2013, 08:37:42 PM »
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Why did you sell your system, Edmund?


When I got the Mamiya/P45+  I was doing some fashion, but since stopped; it was never really my job, but I did publish some and did some catalog work. I was also doing personal work, and selling a few prints.

Initially, I made very large prints of my personal work with this system, but could never sell them, although I sold quite a few A3-sized prints.

I found that although the files were very good, the effort of making MF work was too big for me; I then got a D3x, and the Nikon essentially did all I needed, it could easily go to poster size, so I stopped using the MF system, and eventually sold it.

For some reason, although I'm a pretty old guy, I take my images very quickly, never use a tripod, and so SLR-like speed is a necessity for me.

If there is some MF system which you really like using, get it; if it's just extreme image quality you are after but you do not have much MF experience, then be aware that moving to MF is much harder than moving from one SLR to another, and in fact it can be so hard that you simply fail to incorporate the MF into your work.

Edmund
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 08:51:44 PM by eronald » Logged
ndevlin
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« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2013, 09:42:42 PM »
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WFirst of all I thought electronic prices in that price range would be a lot more stable. Like when buying a TAGHeuer, IWC or Breitling.

A wise friend of mine put it this way: "Today, a camera is just a computer that takes pictures. Would you buy a four years old computer? What's it going to be worth in three of four years?" 

He's totally right.  I recently looked at an H2/39 kit that I would have given my left arm for when it came out.  The price was under $5K, yet I knew within seconds that I couldn't stand working with it in the field, for exactly the same reason I recently threw out a seven year old laptop that was state-of-the-art when I bought it. Value = zero.

Sad, but that is the modern world.  My Leica M6 and Mamiya 6.....those are still worth something  Wink Wink

Cheers,

- N.
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Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera
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