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Author Topic: Leica vs. Sony RX1  (Read 16878 times)
kers
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« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2013, 08:45:40 AM »
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I have a Nikon V1 and that body is about as big as the Sony RX1
What i would like is a mix of the two: sony sensor and lens, but a bajonet to change the lens and a decent EVF.
Also the Nikon has some very nice options like 60fps full resolution that makes some special new things possible and a very fast and accurate autofocus..
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Pieter Kers
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« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2013, 03:03:12 PM »
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I am sure Sony will honor your wishes one day (a RX2 with changeable lenses).

In the meantime, let's have fun with what we have. in my case, an M8 with plenty of Summicrons.

About time to move to an M9 / MM I guess ! When is Xmas again?  Grin
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douglasf13
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« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2013, 08:30:44 PM »
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  The problem with an RX2 with interchangeable lenses is that, unless Sony adopts Leica's microlens strategy, the lenses will be relatively huge.  Even if they did, the lenses would need to accommodate AF and auto aperture motors and electronics.  The RX1's lens sits nearly right against the sensor, and the rear element is the largest I've seen in 35mm.  The IQ of the Rx1 is outstanding, though, so I don't miss my M9+35/2 ASPH that I sold last week, since I've generally been a single prime kind of guy, anyways.
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2013, 11:03:30 PM »
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The IQ of the Rx1 is outstanding, though, so I don't miss my M9+35/2 ASPH that I sold last week, since I've generally been a single prime kind of guy, anyways.

Welcome to the insanity.

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TMARK
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« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2013, 11:08:26 PM »
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  The problem with an RX2 with interchangeable lenses is that, unless Sony adopts Leica's microlens strategy, the lenses will be relatively huge.  Even if they did, the lenses would need to accommodate AF and auto aperture motors and electronics.  The RX1's lens sits nearly right against the sensor, and the rear element is the largest I've seen in 35mm.  The IQ of the Rx1 is outstanding, though, so I don't miss my M9+35/2 ASPH that I sold last week, since I've generally been a single prime kind of guy, anyways.

I like the RX1 files, but its just not a camera I'm comfortable shooting. 
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2013, 11:16:05 PM »
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I like the RX1 files, but its just not a camera I'm comfortable shooting. 

How long did you have the RX-1?
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TMARK
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« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2013, 08:25:21 AM »
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How long did you have the RX-1?

Borrowed one for 10 days.  Brilliant camera, but I'm a VF guy.  I also tried the DP2M.  Same thing.  I did like the X100, but limited manual focusing ruined it for me.  I've shot a Leica M since 1989.  I'm so used to the manual RF focusing and RF framelines, I can get the shots I want intuitively. 
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bcooter
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« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2013, 01:40:45 PM »
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Borrowed one for 10 days.  Brilliant camera, but I'm a VF guy.  I also tried the DP2M.  Same thing.  I did like the X100, but limited manual focusing ruined it for me.  I've shot a Leica M since 1989.  I'm so used to the manual RF focusing and RF framelines, I can get the shots I want intuitively. 

I guess this is quote T day.

The sony with one lens to me is limited.  I don't use a lot of focal lengths, but one 35mm is too locked down.

Anyway, I also don't like holding a camera 2' from my face staring at a screen, but I do like the new electronic viewfinders.

Once you get past the what's in the screen is not the final image, I think they beat the heck out of optical finders and I never thought I'd say that.

I mean you can zoom in and focus, they see in virtual darkness and there is no doubt about what you frame will be the frame.

That new little Pen has the coolest evf I've seen as you can flip it up and shoot down like a waist level finder without forgetting that right is left, left is right.

I like that camera, but it's too small . . . way too small but it's a heck of a nice camera for the money.

I do like traditional cameras, but I've finally decided were not in a traditional world.  It's all electronics, always will be unless you stay with film and the things you can do with these electronic cameras is pretty cool.

IMO

BC
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scooby70
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« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2013, 04:21:15 PM »
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...they see in virtual darkness and there is no doubt about what you frame will be the frame.

I wish they could do so without shining a torch in my eye. I find EVF's simply unuseable in very low light. They ruin night vision, shine a light in my eye and fail to display things clearly visible by eye.

Until those faults can be fixed I can't switch completely to a CSC with EVF and it frustrates me.
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TMARK
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« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2013, 11:21:41 AM »
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I guess this is quote T day.

The sony with one lens to me is limited.  I don't use a lot of focal lengths, but one 35mm is too locked down.

Anyway, I also don't like holding a camera 2' from my face staring at a screen, but I do like the new electronic viewfinders.

Once you get past the what's in the screen is not the final image, I think they beat the heck out of optical finders and I never thought I'd say that.

I mean you can zoom in and focus, they see in virtual darkness and there is no doubt about what you frame will be the frame.

That new little Pen has the coolest evf I've seen as you can flip it up and shoot down like a waist level finder without forgetting that right is left, left is right.

I like that camera, but it's too small . . . way too small but it's a heck of a nice camera for the money.

I do like traditional cameras, but I've finally decided were not in a traditional world.  It's all electronics, always will be unless you stay with film and the things you can do with these electronic cameras is pretty cool.

IMO

BC

I don't mind an EVF but looking at a screen bothers me.  The X100's EVF in the viewfinder worked but the refresh was too slow which distracted me.  I need a viewfinder.  I don't care if what is beyond the cup is an optical path or an electronic path to the image, but that process of looking into the cup blocks out reality and allows me to focus on the image and composition, like going to a movie.  With the Red I would block shots by roughing in lighting and composition and camera movements, using the monitor, then go to the cup and see if it all works.  Removing reality with a VF is, to me, key to composition.  I just see things in the cup I don't on a monitor. 

The RX-1 I borrowed didn't have the external EVF. 

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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2013, 11:56:57 AM »
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Using the rear screen is just like using a ground glass on a view camera.
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KLaban
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« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2013, 12:24:22 PM »
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Using the rear screen is just like using a ground glass on a view camera.

Yup, best done with a dark cloth.
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TMARK
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« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2013, 08:56:14 AM »
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Using the rear screen is just like using a ground glass on a view camera.

Not for me.  As Keith wrote, no darkcloth, and the size of a LV screen is much smaller than 4x5 or 8x10.  I also shoot handheld.  My comments about screens and EVFs are all about how I shoot.  I rarely use tripods except with 6x6 or larger and only for set pieces.  I don't shoot landscapes, and when I did every once in a while, I used a Mamiya 7 handheld.

I think a screen COULD be like a ground glass, and an HDMI out to a monitor looks nice, but I would only use that on a tripod, like I did when shooting motion.

But I do see your point, and for some people it may work very well.
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2013, 09:38:31 AM »
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Not for me.  As Keith wrote, no darkcloth, and the size of a LV screen is much smaller than 4x5 or 8x10.  I also shoot handheld.  My comments about screens and EVFs are all about how I shoot.  I rarely use tripods except with 6x6 or larger and only for set pieces.  I don't shoot landscapes, and when I did every once in a while, I used a Mamiya 7 handheld.

I think a screen COULD be like a ground glass, and an HDMI out to a monitor looks nice, but I would only use that on a tripod, like I did when shooting motion.

But I do see your point, and for some people it may work very well.

I have the sensation to be in a british club of chic gentlemen grandfathers, where it smells leather sofas and imported cigars from the colonies.

Why just not mounting a zacuto EVF on it? I mean, why not taking a good EVF from motion design and adpat it on a still cam with a small magic arm (not like the weak Giotto in the link below...). This Sony is ridiculously small, even with a big evf that could in fact add weight and stability, it would still fit in a little bag and you could use the evf in any position that would allow shooting in impossible angles instead of a fixed Leicastyle viewfinder that belongs to the eon-age design or to be more exact, before the solar system was born, when photography was smelling chemistry and photographers were rock stars. You'd plug the EVF in the HDMI keeping a "traditional" approach but with the benefits of electronics (and for the older foxes of the british club, you can even use the EVF in vertical position while smoking your cigars so it reminds the Hasselblad golden age when you were all shooting pin-ups for Cadillac garages...). Et voil: http://www.eoshd.com/content/3500/zacuto-evf-flip-review

Ps: True that EVF are not going to display the image upside-down...
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 10:10:37 AM by fredjeang2 » Logged
TMARK
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« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2013, 10:35:16 AM »
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I have the sensation to be in a british club of chic gentlemen grandfathers, where it smells leather sofas and imported cigars from the colonies.

Why just not mounting a zacuto EVF on it? I mean, why not taking a good EVF from motion design and adpat it on a still cam with a small magic arm (not like the weak Giotto in the link below...). This Sony is ridiculously small, even with a big evf that could in fact add weight and stability, it would still fit in a little bag and you could use the evf in any position that would allow shooting in impossible angles instead of a fixed Leicastyle viewfinder that belongs to the eon-age design or to be more exact, before the solar system was born, when photography was smelling chemistry and photographers were rock stars. You'd plug the EVF in the HDMI keeping a "traditional" approach but with the benefits of electronics (and for the older foxes of the british club, you can even use the EVF in vertical position while smoking your cigars so it reminds the Hasselblad golden age when you were all shooting pin-ups for Cadillac garages...). Et voil: http://www.eoshd.com/content/3500/zacuto-evf-flip-review

Ps: True that EVF are not going to display the image upside-down...

Too awkward, too conspicious, too much set up for anything but PRODUCTION.   On the few editorials I shoot now a Zacuto or Sony HDMI screen works just fine, but I have other larger cameras for that with LV to a laptop or a HD panel.  I've used teh HDMI out from a D800 toa Sony panel (an old(er) one) on a magic arm mounted to a tripod.  It works well, but not for what I want. 

Maybe a Zacuto hood/eye piece for the rear screen might work, now that I'm thinging about it.  I used one of those on a 5D2 and 1d4 for shooting handheld video and liked it.
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KLaban
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« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2013, 11:25:38 AM »
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Im with T.

Give me an eyecup that isolates me from extraneous detritus and Im happy.
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TMARK
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« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2013, 11:38:13 AM »
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Im with T.

Give me an eyecup that isolates me from extraneous detritus and Im happy.


Yup, and not to speak for you, but I would assume an EVF through a cup would work, if the EVF were good enough.  Its an immersive experience that changes how you see a photograph.
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KLaban
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« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2013, 11:44:25 AM »
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Yup, and not to speak for you, but I would assume an EVF through a cup would work, if the EVF were good enough.  Its an immersive experience that changes how you see a photograph.

Yup, optical, EVF, whatever, as long as they are good enough.
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2013, 11:58:07 AM »
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It seems that you are looking for a candid, street config.
Agree that the Z evf is maybe too much of an hassle to setup and belongs
To prod. (although it's 15 sex but not
Discreete). You mentioned the eyecup that fits the screen,
It could be a solution.
I personaly find that it ends to be weired because
It's in the axis of the body and no flexibility to
Change angles, unless the all lcd moves but they
Are fragile and nothing more annoying than
Thinking about not breaking a device.
In the end, the Zac evf would be the most
Efficient unless discretion is requiered.

And T, Thanks you took my previous post as it was,
Just a tease. I'm not thinking that you're an old snob,
Smoking cigars in a british view cameras club.
Nooo. That's more Keith !
You know me for awhile and that's why I allowed
Myself this post.
I know you shoot Red and cutting-edge gear too.

But through this teaser, I wanted to express an idea.
You pointed that you're a VF guy. You are not: you're an image
Maker. What you really expressed was your comfort zone.
But, sometimes, we manage to not repeat ourselves too much
And not reproducing the same image when we aren't
Anymore in our confort zone.
Just think of this alternative idea: why instead of trying
To get a config you think you want, for many good reasons
I'n sure, you just shoot with the CAM as it, with this
Uncomfortable lcd as it. But not 10 days thinking of what's
Missing. Maybe you'll end doing different images.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 12:12:02 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
KLaban
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« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2013, 01:22:58 PM »
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And T, Thanks you took my previous post as it was,
Just a tease. I'm not thinking that you're an old snob,
Smoking cigars in a british view cameras club.
Nooo. That's more Keith !

Hehe.

Truth is the traditional view camera has always been an anathema to me as have dusty clubs and dusty snobs. But yes, that cigar once in a while would be kinda nice.

Hey, Fred, that new avatar reminds me of someone...
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