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Author Topic: MF film and Digital Back Forum  (Read 4130 times)
Jeffery Salter
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« on: April 01, 2013, 02:58:09 PM »
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Is it possible to have a Medium format Digital forum just for photographers who actually use and appreciate the format?  

I come to the MF section of Lu_La to improve my MFD skills.   Most photographers time is valuable, we really don't need to hear how a Go-pro or Nikon or Yashica camera is the new Viagra.

Is it possible that posters and writers who simply are trying to convert MFD users to 35mm do so in another area?

I'm not trying to step on the moderators toes or deny anyone an open forum.  But the question begs to be answered that if you are so satisfied with your own 35mm system why spend so must time trying to convince others that they should use only 35mm.  Go shoot some great pictures.  

Regards,
Jeffery
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 09:30:51 AM by Jeffery Salter » Logged

Jeffery Salter
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2013, 03:28:48 PM »
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Try GetDPI.com. The MFD forums are excellent there.
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bcooter
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2013, 03:59:43 PM »
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Is it possible to have a Medium format Digital forum just for photographers who actually use and appreciate the format?  

I come to the MF section of Lu_La to improve my MFD skills.   Most photographers time is value, we really don't need to hear how a Go-pro or Nikon or Yashica camera is the new Viagra.

Is it possible that posters and writers who simply are trying to convert MFD users to 35mm do so in another area?

I'm not trying to step on the moderators toes or deny anyone an open forum.  But the question begs to be answered that if you are so satisfied with your own 35mm system why spend so must time trying to convince others that they should use only 35mm.  Go shoot some great pictures.  

Regards,
Jeffery





I don't think it's just about other formats, because we've seen this go on in this forum before and most people have multiple formats so there is some commonality.

I think this started up in the last few months as a crusade that is truly never ending.  

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 04:01:44 PM by bcooter » Logged
Dustbak
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2013, 04:03:01 PM »
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Yeah, it will go away eventually. In the meantime shooting tethered with a D800 sucks compared to my H4D60 let alone the H3D31  Grin
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Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 06:22:58 PM »
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Is it possible to have a Medium format Digital forum just for photographers who actually use and appreciate the format? 

I come to the MF section of Lu_La to improve my MFD skills.   Most photographers time is value, we really don't need to hear how a Go-pro or Nikon or Yashica camera is the new Viagra.

Is it possible that posters and writers who simply are trying to convert MFD users to 35mm do so in another area?

I'm not trying to step on the moderators toes or deny anyone an open forum.  But the question begs to be answered that if you are so satisfied with your own 35mm system why spend so must time trying to convince others that they should use only 35mm.  Go shoot some great pictures. 


+1
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Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 06:46:32 PM »
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I don't think it's just about other formats, because we've seen this go on in this forum before and most people have multiple formats so there is some commonality.

I think this started up in the last few months as a crusade that is truly never ending.  

IMO

BC

Exactly,
The intrusion to other formats and comparatives and wars have always existed that I know here, and as James point, most users have multiple formats and systems (as it should be), included motion cameras because this industry-business isn't still only anymore.

The good thing of allowing this is that it avoids fanboyism, cultism of all kinds and I think that the moderators of this forum are doing a perfect balance not restringing topics too much.

The thing is that the overall tone changed to no fun, it becames most of the time a crusade, and IMO got to the point of really-non-sense.

It's to the point that now I almost feel sorry for the MF vendors. Not kidding. And to the point that I got such an indigestion of this magical D f.....k 800 that I simply refuse to buy one, even if it was the very ultimate best cam ever built, just for that! You know, too much advertising kills the ads. As we say in french: je peux plus la voir ni en peinture!

It's like people would jump into the Red forum with all the fanfare and would bomb the Red users with Alexas files and metadatas, it wouldn't last 5 minutes with JJ  Grin

Ps: and also, I'd like to ad that after those D800 gamechangercultismadulation, what I see are big japanese trusts mass market products, and really, if there are still some people who make gear the craft way, even if it's for a bunch of old fashioned shooters that do not understand anything, and even if it's more costly, I wish we still can have that, otherwise this world would become really boring.  
It seems that we have lost Aaton now in the digital transition. Yeah, a small Factory that was doing top cameras praised in Hollywood. What a shame!
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 07:27:11 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 07:26:51 PM »
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Exactly,
The intrusion to other formats and comparatives and wars have always existed that I know here, and as James point, most users have multiple formats and systems (as it should be), included motion cameras because this industry-business isn't still only anymore.

The good thing of allowing this is that it avoids fanboyism, cultism of all kinds and I think that the moderators of this forum are doing a perfect balance not restringing topics too much.

The thing is that the overall tone changed to no fun, it becames most of the time a crusade, and IMO got to the point of really-non-sense.

It's to the point that now I almost feel sorry for the MF vendors. Not kidding. And to the point that I got such an indigestion of this magical D f.....k 800 that I simply refuse to buy one, even if it was the very ultimate best cam ever built, just for that! You know, too much advertising kills the ads. As we say in french: je peux plus la voir ni en peinture!

It's like people would jump into the Red forum with all the fanfare and would bomb the Red users with Alexas files and metadatas, it wouldn't last 5 minutes with JJ  Grin

Intrusion of other formats? Interesting that you bring this up when you posted this in another thread in the MF section titled: MF Entry with PhaseOne ? ... about an hour earlier...

I have filmed with a GF2  that I gifted to a friend who broke his camera. It was a very nice camera. They even made a hack for it with different flavours as the GH2 and it could climb to pretty high bitrates, takes PL lenses. Unfortunatly the footage even hacked couldn't stands with the Hacked GH2 and a real hassle to mix with because outputs were too different animals, but for a web it was perfect as I was doing 25p. I had one GF2 unit for filming in remote Little corners like inside a fridge etc...it worked brilliantly and now I sort of miss it because it was really usefull and could fit in a pocket and allowed crazy takes. (the kit lens, as for being a kit lens, is not as garbage as other brands kit lenses IMO). It also had some fancy color modes that could really look nice pre-graded footage just out-of the box with a Little bit of tricking the menu.
I by-passed the AVCHbloodyD because this horrible codec bands more than a Vasarely painting and hacked it in motion jpeg and it had a fantastic cine 16mm look. But the buffer didn't like it at all and takes had to be short.
Nice cameras the GF line.

It's a discussion forum, that is written... it has to be read. No one has to read what they are not interested in.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 07:36:18 PM by FredBGG » Logged
fredjeang2
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 07:30:07 PM »
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Intrusion of other formats? Interesting that you complain about this when you posted this in another thread in the MF section titled: MF Entry with PhaseOne ?



Again, put your glasses and re-read. You don't read. You just interpretate. You got someone in your radar and bang, Needs big glasses?

I wrote "the intrusión of other formats always existed" then added "The good thing of allowing this is that it avoids fanboyism"

I got the adress of a good ophtalmologist in the US.

But I'm afraid that it is some other kinds of treatment that you'd need.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 09:47:00 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 07:46:35 PM »
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It's a discussion forum and all sorts of things go on.

How about this.

Someone asked about moving to MF from 35mm DSLR for shooting stitched panos and asked about making bracketing adjustments.

I replied with information on electronic leaf shutters were in production and that are in development for MF lenses.

The next response was from a dealer that chose to "pre-emtively attack me" ... rather silly

Here are the three posts in order.....

Thinking about making the move into large format from a DSLR and have the following questions...

I shoot mainly panoramic with a pano head, I'd like to continue shooting panos this way so I don't require movements, portability is a major factor so I have been looking at the alpa TC and the arca swiss compact solutions. I don't have any experience with LF systems, but from what I have read it seems that the digital back cannot talk to the lens/vice versa, so A) lens exif data is not passed into raw file and B) you cannot control shutter and aperture from the back.

If this is the case how would you go about shooting HDR with AEB? Important for pano work. Also how would you do multi pass shoots where you need to change exposure settings without touching the camera?

I researched the electronic shutter lenses available, which suggests this is possible, but seemingly only via a laptop tether. Phase One tell me what I am trying to achieve is only possible with a system such as the Phase One DF camera which is able to interface with the lens.

Elliot Newman

www.elliotnewman.com




Rollei is comming out with an electronic shutter that has a control unit that it connected
to the camera via a wire. This may work for you. The controller does bracketing etc.

http://www.dhw-fototechnik.de/en/bellows-camera/lenscontrol-s.html

http://www.dhw-fototechnik.de/en/bellows-camera/electronicshutter.html

Have you had a chance to take actual photos with a medium format system yet? You may well find your desire/need to do HDR bracketing is greatly reduced or even eliminated when shooting with a good DB rather than a dSLR. There are tests (I'm sure Fred will be happy to jump in and post links to the 2-3 same tired tests he always does) which imply the usable dynamic range of a digital back can be matched with a dSLR. In my shooting, and in my experience working with hundreds of photographers on such dSLR>LFD transitions I can tell you this is not the case (though I'd greatly prefer to have you take your own tests to show yourself). There are scenes which still require multiple exposures to capture properly with an IQ180 for instance, but they are far less frequent than when using a standard dSLR.

All that said if you want to do AEB you will need an electronic shutter and a laptop or a MF system like the DF+. There are options out on the horizon for shutters which may allow iPhone control, but I suggest against relying on such promised/announced/possible systems; today there is no such option.

The Arca Swiss Factum by the way would provide you several advantages above and beyond the Alpa TC:
- tilt on every lens, no adapter or special lens mount required
- rise/fall for perspective correction, whether or not you plan on using lateral movement for stitching you may still enjoy the ability to offset the horizon without introducing ill-perspective
- ultra precise focusing bayonet for both precision focusing and also for highly repeatable focus presets like hyperfocal

Why go and attack me while I am helping out with a solution from a MF manufacturer to one of his questions regarding his move to MFD.
I think with Copal getting out of the shutter buisness I think DHW will have a bigger market and that should lead to success for this electronic shutter.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 07:49:27 PM by FredBGG » Logged
ACH DIGITAL
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 07:57:35 PM »
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I think the forum is missing a good suddivision on threads. There should be a place for Professional Photography, IMAGES ONLY, regardless of format, where one can discuss creativity, etc.
And there should be the technical ones with camera oriented discussions.
This would be more healthy..

ACH
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Antonio Chagin
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 08:12:21 PM »
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I think the forum is missing a good suddivision on threads. There should be a place for Professional Photography, IMAGES ONLY, regardless of format, where one can discuss creativity, etc.
And there should be the technical ones with camera oriented discussions.
This would be more healthy..

ACH


Good point about subdivisions. The forum is very well made, but with the dramatic increase in quality of cameras the format differences are becoming less relevant.


I think that the real point to make is that it is about images and the technical discussions should be focused getting these images by any technical means
and one should be able to discuss this freely without any format fundamentalism and financial gains getting in the way.

No one has to read every post. There is even an option to ignore/hide certain users posts. Easy to setup and easy to reverse.

I also think that it is useful to readers to know about equipment that is in many ways up there with MF.
This is particularly of interest to many due to the very high cost of MF.

Times change and the discussion goes along with the times.

Heck... my first cell phone was a brief case with a handset. Now my cell phone sounds 10 times better, plays movies and costs 10 times less.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 08:18:55 PM by FredBGG » Logged
fredjeang2
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 08:31:16 PM »
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Fred,

It's got nothing to do with your personal talent. You are and always will be a much better photographer than me and a lot of people. And I'm not in still business anyway.
It's got nothing to do with your technical apportations that can be truly interesting.
It's got nothing to do with the fact that one can honestly critise, give advice etc etc...

In my modest opinion, it's got a lot to do with the how. That's what, for me, is really painfull and brings a climate of tension in many of your posts and specially the ones related to MF.

I read your repply because I was almost sure you would have read what you wanted and started an attack, and I was right.
After my harsh attack on Testino's party, you deducted that was homophob and that it wasn't worth arguing with me. But the thing is that in the end you couldn't help it, because (IMO again) you generaly look for confrontations. Not only with me, each time you can. The tone of your posts with others MF have been sometimes in the same league and in the end people know you as the D800 "killer" or the Nikon agent.
Now, this ridiculous "ignore this user" (because it's hidden victimism) shows that you are playing a doble game and shows that something's wrong somewhere.

The result of that is that many people here, instead of taking your posts as they should, or feel advertion for them, or don't read them, or would smile thinking of the Nikon saga.

That's what I think, it only concerns my own position. But I think that you have a lot to bring, it's just the how and your personal motivations on MF that end to be too personal and frankly suspicious.

I don't care of the Nikon, or Phase, I don't shoot still anymore for sometime now as I'm involved into a different industry and I'm Brand agnostic. But I can understand why so much MF users are fed-up of the dslr saga.
You didn't create the dslr saga, it was there way before you, but you perfectionned it and brought it to some levels, I must admit, with a swiss watch precision.

But again, I think it's about the attitude with many other MF members that don't think like you about equipment, don't have the same motivations or agendas and simply aren't concerned about switching to dslrs.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 08:35:28 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 08:43:46 PM »
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Why go and attack me while I am helping out with a solution from a MF manufacturer to one of his questions regarding his move to MFD.
I think with Copal getting out of the shutter buisness I think DHW will have a bigger market and that should lead to success for this electronic shutter.

I'm just curious, Fred, but how did Doug attack you when he wrote, "I'm sure Fred will be happy to jump in and post links to the 2-3 same tired tests he always does"? Isn't that what we have come to expect from you?

You do provide some good advice at times, but it does appear that you have a mostly negative bias toward anything other than your choices, the D800 or Fuji GX680.

Ed

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Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 08:58:18 PM »
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I'm just curious, Fred, but how did Doug attack you when he wrote, "I'm sure Fred will be happy to jump in and post links to the 2-3 same tired tests he always does"? Isn't that what we have come to expect from you?

You do provide some good advice at times, but it does appear that you have a mostly negative bias toward anything other than your choices, the D800 or Fuji GX680.

Ed



You missed part of his quote:

 
Quote
(I'm sure Fred will be happy to jump in and post links to the 2-3 same tired tests he always does) which imply the usable dynamic range of a digital back can be matched with a dSLR.

"tired tests"... what is that supposed to mean?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 09:02:20 PM by FredBGG » Logged
Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2013, 09:12:13 PM »
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Not really. I just forgot the ellipsis.
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Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2013, 09:39:25 PM »
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You do provide some good advice at times, but it does appear that you have a mostly negative bias toward anything other than your choices, the D800 or Fuji GX680.

Ed



Hmm how about the bias towards gear many posters here SELL or is sold by companies they work with.

Interesting that I took a lot of flack for praising the Pentax 645D for it's weather sealing, despite I choose not to buy one.
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MrSmith
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« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2013, 03:54:51 AM »
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Do digital transitions sell Rollie products?  Roll Eyes
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ced
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« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2013, 04:08:45 AM »
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Bravo Jefferey!  Some (actually quite a few) like to keep shouting "MF Moribund". 
It gives them great satisfaction instead of going out to shoot some good pics...
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KLaban
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« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2013, 04:58:44 AM »
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Is it possible to have a Medium format Digital forum just for photographers who actually use and appreciate the format? 

Anything is possible, but how would you police it?
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torger
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« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2013, 05:27:05 AM »
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A discussion forum where everybody thinks the same and there is no criticism is not healthy. While I do like getdpi, I appreciate lula for allowing more diverse opinions.
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