Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: P45+ upgrade worth it?  (Read 2923 times)
kerian
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5


« on: April 03, 2013, 10:13:19 PM »
ReplyReply

Should I trade in my P45+ for the new back?    Yes or no? and Why besides the obvious screen and BS dynamic range increase  (   I dont believe it ).

And   What is a used P45+ worth these days .

Logged
kdphotography
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 712


WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2013, 10:24:38 PM »
ReplyReply

Next generation P65+ is better image-quality wise than the older P45+, long exposure capability notwithstanding; IQ series of MFDB is better than P65+ and are definitely better than the P45+.  You'll just have to see it to believe it!

IQ260 is a worthwhile upgrade.

 Smiley
Logged

DanielStone
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 548


« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2013, 02:19:24 AM »
ReplyReply

Just wondering,
Does your current P45+ back fulfill your needs, or does it fall short in a particular area that a newer back might be able to fill?
I'm only asking because it seems that many people(not saying you of course Wink) seem to have "upgrade fever", where they feel they NEED the latest tech. I've worked for a guy here in LA on occasion that still shoots with a few Leaf Valeo 22mp backs. They REQUIRE tethering, no screens even Smiley. Even though he has tried out the latest ones to the market(IQ/Credo's), he felt that he and his clients were/are happy with what these Valeo 22mp backs(each with probably over 500k shots each(he does a lot of focus stacking/comp stuff) are capable of delivering, even in today's 80 megapixel-laden wonderworld Cheesy

However, If you feel you want the latest and greatest, no worries! There's lots of wonderful options out there at the moment!
But if your current P45+ back delivers the goods, why not stick with it?

Cheers,
Dan
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 02:21:20 AM by DanielStone » Logged
torger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1396


« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2013, 03:42:28 AM »
ReplyReply

As the absolute image quality of backs have got better and better it's harder and harder to justify upgrade based on image quality alone. Few applications need more than what a P45+ can deliver.

You'll get higher resolution, more accurate color, and a better user interface. Up to you if it's worth the money.

The dynamic range is better but it's not bad with the P45+ already, and I think the value of being able to dig one extra stop or so into darkness often is exaggerated, even for me that shoot landscapes and has less control of lighting.
Logged
Doug Peterson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2766


WWW
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 08:30:19 AM »
ReplyReply

Should I trade in my P45+ for the new back?    Yes or no? and Why besides the obvious screen and BS dynamic range increase  (I don't believe it ).

I wouldn't "believe" the increase in dynamic range on blind faith. I would instead suggest you have a Phase One partner provide you the opportunity to do your own testing (in whatever your normal shooting environment is). Because it is a reality; the increase in sensor quality (color, tonality, dynamic range, shooting speed) since 2005 when the KAF-39000 sensor was released are real (wouldn't you be surprised if that weren't the case). You can read a bit about the sensor in the IQ260 here. But the only meaningful way to evaluate that is not a numeric comparison (X stops vs XX stops) or another user report, but to go take pictures (relevant to your intended use) with both and make your own evaluation.

Since you haven't given us any information about what you shoot, how you shoot, or what you consider important. So here is a fairly comprehensive list of other advantages that may or may not be relevant to your needs:
- more resolution, 60mp rather than 39mp. This gives you additional flexibility to print larger, crop tighter, use verticals from horizontals, pull "detail" shots from "overall" shots (i.e. pull a headshot from a full-length shot)
- FW800/USB3*
- No issues with firewire power on iMacs/Laptops**
- Ability to sync at 1/1600 when using DF+LS lenses***
- Long exposures are taken at a base ISO140 rather than base ISO50; shooting an architectural scene at dusk might take 20 seconds rather than 60****
- Camera control when tethered (AFD1/2/3, AF/DF/DF+)
- Faster readout
- Sensor+ for higher ISO, faster shooting, smaller files (15mp up to ISO3200 up to 1.4 frames per second)
- Larger sensor (1.0 crop rather than 1.1 crop), makes your wides wider and your wide-open shots shallower in DOF (assuming you frame the same image)
- Subjective opinion (shared by nearly all our users that have transitioned): smoother tonality, better color especially in skin tones and subtle greens
- graphical or numerical readout of horizon and pitch through user interface, accurate to nearest 0.2 degrees
- one-click correction of horizon and perspective in C1 for one image, or for many images at once
- focus mask in-back, especially useful for fine tuning focus or very fast differential focus comparison (think an eye doctors line "better on A, or B")
- accurate 100% review on the LCD, of all images when shooting untethered, or for the more recent 10 images when shooting tethered
- built-in wifi for wireless review on an iPad/iPhone/iPodTouch without tethering. Might be useful for you, an assistant, an art director, a stylist etc. This includes the ability to rate the images (which will show up in Capture One downstream), check 100%, control and trigger the camera, see a histogram, and either show images as they are shot, or review past images as you continue to shoot
- adjustable highlight warning level
- highlight warning can be set to flash in the thumbnail next to the larger-unimpinged image (allowing you to quickly notice when you are blowing a highlight without interrupting your view of the overall image)
- a Thumbnail view allowing you to quickly scan through many hundreds of images
- IIQ-S (the lossy compressed format) is improved, making it a relevant tool in more situations. This reduces raw file size by 40-60% with only a very minor change in image quality.
- adjustable grids and guides on the LCD
- customizable splash screen (very minor point, but a "nice touch" to see your logo pop up on set)

*USB3 is in final beta testing now for the IQ1 (available to users via their dealer) and is already active in the prototype IQ2 models.
**With a P+ back you are sometimes required to run off the back's battery power during a tethered shoot. This occurs when the laptop/iMac doesn't produce sufficient/consistent firewire power
***P45+ is limited to 1/800
****Both backs require a dark frame after exposure
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 09:06:02 AM by Doug Peterson » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
Jeffreytotaro
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 111


« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 01:13:42 PM »
ReplyReply

I'm in the same boat Kerian. I have used a P45+ for maybe 5 years or so and it has been great. I passed on the P65+ and on the IQ160, so I'm not just upgrading whenever something new comes along. I was out shooting with an IQ260 prototype this week and it was great to work with. Doug covered all of the major points feature wise, but the images we shot were really nice compared to the P45+. Tons of detail and very little noise. This a skyline view at dusk and night. I did some shots at 30" at iso50, which were amazing and after putting an ND filter on and stopping down to f16, we did some long exposures, up to 8 minutes. I rarely shoot that long, but its nice that the 1 minute range is very clean. The interface is great of course too, as long as you like quick and easy. I shoot tethered most of the time, but this shot we did right to the card with a 120mm N lens on an Alpa MAX. This lens is fussy to focus, its never quite at infinity no matter how far away your are from your subject, but using the LCD screen, the focus mask, and the iPad we could verify focus very easily with each method. Any one of them would work alone though. I'm looking forward to the upgrade. From a business point of view, I feel I'll be able to shoot faster (faster focus checking, live view on the LCD) and respond better to changing conditions, and also have even better files to work with. Might even get a DF camera! A P45+ might be worth more in trade-in than on the street, at least in the early days of the IQ2s. I may have made that up, but I think that's close to being correct, check with your dealer.
Logged

Jeffrey Totaro
http://www.jeffreytotaro.com
IQ260 Alpa MAX & SWA
studio347
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2013, 01:26:29 PM »
ReplyReply

I think the difference of image quality is real and at the same time, it can be a little exaggerated Smiley It's a good advice to maintain some kind of emotional distance to our desire to get the best possible equipment for our photography, my personal opinion only...Let's maintain some kind of distance to the desire.. if possible. To me, two-step approach seems to be a good way...like from p25 to p65( rather than p45 to p65) which has a quite nice upgrade... of course, even this upgrade doesn't guarantee a better photography. It provides a better and convenient tool for it. For some reasons, I like the photographer who can make wonderful pictures with not so expensive equipment Smiley One of my college teachers wanted to have a leica but to her it was too expensive, she got a cheaper Japanese camera and made wonderful pictures. Of course, with a leica, she would be happy too. She was a journalism_fine art photographer. So.. it can be a little different..to other areas of photography.. Smiley : . .
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 01:49:21 PM by studio347 » Logged
sbernthal
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 167


« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2013, 09:03:30 AM »
ReplyReply

Many people think the operative question is: "does the equipment you have now give you all that you need?"
That is not completely true, in my opinion.
Many times you will be quite happy with what you have, not knowing what else is out there.

P45+ is already two generations behind, as was correctly pointed out.
I believe IQ will give you palpable improvements and benefits in image quality, and quite likely clients and projects as well.
I agree DR is BS, but the overall feel and impression of the image improves from one generation to the next, usually.

Many times people told me I am wasting money in upgrading equipment, as the clients can't tell the difference anyway.
But still with the improvement of equipment, I am able to deliver better color and resolution, and I can definitely see the commercial benefit coming, even if it takes a couple of years to fully manifest. Clients see your images around and appreciate a high end look.

I believe the operative questions should be:
- Does your photography business have a positive momentum?
- Do your revenues allow you the expenditure?

If so, then you should do it, IMO.
For me, I try to stay conservative with my expenses, and also I can't afford $50K buys, so I would be quite happy to upgrade to P65+ and stay one generation behind, at a cost that makes sense to me.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 11:42:30 AM by sbernthal » Logged
JabariHunt
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 41



WWW
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2013, 06:29:42 PM »
ReplyReply

I'd kill for a P45+!  Full frame (no noticeable crop factor), 1 hour exposure times, and 39MP.  In real world applications, what can I do with 60MP that I can't do with 39MP???  80MP...OK, there's quite a bit more detail there.  For the size prints I make though, it wouldn't make that much difference.

The image quality of the IQ backs are better of course, but incremental (I say incremental because the image quality of the P45+ is still outstanding).  The features that attract me most about the IQ backs are the touchscreen controls and the ability to send images directly to a tablet (at least with the IQ2 series).  Both are extremely attractive when you are on location and don't want to drag a tethered laptop around (think beach with lots of salt water!).  The price difference for those two features plus an incremental difference in image quality just wouldn't be worth it for me personally though.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 06:37:04 PM by JabariHunt » Logged
drevil
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 34


« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2013, 08:30:14 PM »
ReplyReply

guys, just my 2 cents!

there is this guy opening a thread, asking if its worth upgrading from a p45+ towards the IQ series.

1. why is a guy owning a p45+ in need to ask for such advice?
isn't he a pro who should know this kind of stuff? even amateurs owning such pro gear know their stuff about it.

2. this guy doesn't reply to any further asked questions. Meh!

It's just my opinion but I'd ignore such posts after a day or two.

Best regards

Mirko
Logged
Paul2660
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1677


WWW
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2013, 10:24:00 PM »
ReplyReply

Having owned and shot with a P45+ for several years, the move to the IQ160 was a impressive for me.  I was not and still am not that concerned about 1 hour exposures, 30 min etc with a MF Digital.   But the Dynamic range improvement between the P45+ and IQ160/P65+ is considerable. 

1.  Much better control with highlights, the P45+ for me was almost always a multiexposure back, it was very easy to blow highlights and once blown there was no recovery.
2.  Vastly improvement shadow details.  The P45+ tended to give a mushy look to details that were in heavy shadow, sure you can exposure for them, but then you had blown highlights.
3.  Greatly improved iso 800 and above.  My P45+ even with the latest firmware was a iso400 max back in most conditions.  You also started to visually see loss of saturation past iso200. 
4.  Already mentioned, but the added features of the IQ series, are very helpful. 
5.  Color to my eye greatly improved also, just better out the gate.

Still the best solution, if you can, demo with a dealer, side by side and see the results from your shooting.  Everyone has their own style of shooting. 

Paul Caldwell

 
Logged

Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
Photography > http://photosofarkansas.com
Blog> http://paulcaldwellphotography.com
nightfire
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 90



« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 02:28:17 PM »
ReplyReply

1. why is a guy owning a p45+ in need to ask for such advice?
isn't he a pro who should know this kind of stuff? even amateurs owning such pro gear know their stuff about it.

I frankly don't see what's wrong with the OP's question. After all, knowledge doesn't come by spontaneous enlightenment while you're sleeping, but by asking stuff (at least for me). I'm a P45+ amateur user myself who pondered the same question a while ago (and I came to the conclusion "meh, that upgrade is not going to happen right now"). But still, I read the thoughts of others in this thread with interest.

One additional issue to think about from my point of view: is it really just the P45+ upgrade you're looking at? Or won't you need a DF body too and D lenses to make the most of the increased resolution and integrated control features of the back, as well as a faster Mac/PC to process the larger files, and finally a larger printer to produce prints which show the difference? It's not unlike a car purchase - all these little extras tend to add up, you know...  Wink
Logged
johnasmith
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


WWW
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2013, 06:40:32 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi Iam a also upgrading to the IQ260 Ive been using a p65 for 5 years.My friend and I
were on top of the mountain shooting fall color landscapes.we came to a overlook where
we have a 180 horizonial view looking out over the mountains and we had color in the foreground and
killer god beams all across the valley.We both have arca tec cameras.We both used the same lens and same shutter and f stop
on both cameras.we also were using ND grads, 5 stop hards to control the beams of very bright light.I could not believe
the differance in the two lcd screens  you  could see the whole scene perfect on IQ back no so on my p65. So the
IQ series has larger better lcd, and shows better range.I will like the longer exposure times also
Logged

John A.Smith
Hendersonville, NC
johnsmithphotography.net
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad