Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: How to boost dmax of rag paper?  (Read 2147 times)
texshooter
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 218


« on: April 05, 2013, 02:52:51 AM »
ReplyReply

I am torn between Epson Cold Press Bright White and Hahnemuhle William Turner.  ECPBW is the hands-down winner for deep blacks, but I prefer the texture of HWT.

Can I get my Epson 3800 To lay down more ink only in the deepest blacks to boost the dmax of this paper without losing shadow detail? This paper doesn't have much shadow range to begin with.
Logged
howardm
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 785


« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2013, 05:51:06 AM »
ReplyReply

Have you looked at the Canson Montval Aquarelle or their Arches Aquarelle ?
Logged
texshooter
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 218


« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2013, 11:15:11 AM »
ReplyReply

I will give those a try. But I still wonder if there is a way to instruct my printer to put down more mk black ink in the darkest tonal values only. I know I can do an adjustment curve in PS to make sure My absolute blacks are 0 RGB, but that doesn't make 0 RGB pixels print any darker than they normally do unless the printer can selectively saturate the paper. Maybe the Quadtone RIP can do it? But Isn't QT strictly for B&W?
Logged
aaronchan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 310


« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2013, 11:45:58 AM »
ReplyReply

Are you using the same media setting for both paper?
If yes, that means you are using the same lin data for both paper, and even you have a custom profile, it should not affact the d-max number.

I think you can increase the ink limit within the epson driver? I'm not sure since I haven't use 3880 for a really long time.


aaron
Logged
howardm
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 785


« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2013, 01:23:15 PM »
ReplyReply

I dont think there is any assurance that simply laying down more ink is going to do anything for you. 
Matte papers flatten out in their response to more ink for blacks so laying down more is going to block up shadows.

You need to find a paper that will not do that (as much as William Turner).

Have you seen this?

http://www.dygartphotography.com/papertestmethod.html
Logged
BarbaraArmstrong
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 288


« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 02:40:37 PM »
ReplyReply

My understanding of increasing the ink limit in the Epson driver is that it does it across-the-board:  all inks and all tonalities.  --Barbara
Logged
texshooter
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 218


« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2013, 03:49:07 PM »
ReplyReply

My understanding of increasing the ink limit in the Epson driver is that it does it across-the-board:  all inks and all tonalities.  --Barbara

Too bad. One would think somebody at Epson would have thought to add tonality-selective ink limit control. But then again, what do I know about these things.
Logged
Rhossydd
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1965


WWW
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2013, 04:19:41 PM »
ReplyReply

I dont think there is any assurance that simply laying down more ink is going to do anything for you. 
Matte papers flatten out in their response to more ink for blacks so laying down more is going to block up shadows.
Actually if you do the tests you'll find that laying down too much ink actually reduces dMax.
It sounds counter intuitive, but what seems to happen is that the ink sits on the saturated surface and has higher reflectance than an optimal ink load that is fully absorbed.
Logged
Geraldo Garcia
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 224



WWW
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 10:40:47 PM »
ReplyReply

Actually if you do the tests you'll find that laying down too much ink actually reduces dMax.
It sounds counter intuitive, but what seems to happen is that the ink sits on the saturated surface and has higher reflectance than an optimal ink load that is fully absorbed.

Exactly!
Each paper has its own sweet spot of ink limit and, sometimes, less is more.

Best regards.
Logged
Stephen G
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 94


« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2013, 01:11:56 AM »
ReplyReply

sounding like an echo here but here's my experience:

When I profiled Hot Press NW for my 9900 I used the Ultrasmooth settings (was no option for HPNW in the driver at the time) and discovered that setting ink down 5% got me the darkest blacks. Measured with a Spyder3.
Logged
Ernst Dinkla
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2867


« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2013, 05:58:41 AM »
ReplyReply

Too bad. One would think somebody at Epson would have thought to add tonality-selective ink limit control. But then again, what do I know about these things.

Check whether the workflow you use gives a better Dmax at say 95% ink amount by printing a 21 or 51 step greyscale target, QTR has some. If so then try some other matte media presets in the Epson driver that may have a more suitable black ink lay-down to get near that optimal black ink amount for Dmax on that paper. The other inks may suffer by that though so for example gamut could shrink but that may be controllable with the ink lay down setting possible in the driver. The last is more a gamma like change in almost all drivers including HP models.

If you need it for B&W then go the QTR route and use its driver + partioning, calibration and profiling tools. You can customise that workflow to an optimal state for your inks and papers. If it is for color then only a full RIP will allow a similar approach and you can optimize the black Dmax, the maximum chrome per color ink channel and the UCR or similar black generation control. A steep learning curve with more costs involved than just the RIP purchase and there may not be a universal RIP that supports the 3800. Imageprint is somewhat different on that last aspect but is printer specific and you have to count whether that is a good decision for the time the 3800 will last.



--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.


Logged
TylerB
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 361


WWW
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2013, 12:59:43 PM »
ReplyReply

I have used William Turner with a of of inks and use a RIP to control. It has an excellent black and can take a lot of ink, I've rarely seen it shoulder over before actually bleeding. I've exceeded 1.7 with certain ink setups and the RIP.
It may still never match the dmax of EHPN, but it exceeds most of the available papers.
With the RGB driver your options are to test every viable media setting, and whatever density adjustments are available in custom driver settings.
William Turner can produce gorgeous, but very physically delicate, prints.
Tyler
Logged
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad