Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: This is so damned cool!  (Read 6159 times)
Chris Barrett
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 237


« on: April 05, 2013, 08:17:58 AM »
ReplyReply

A new handheld gimbal with the smoothness of steadicam at under 4 lbs.

Via LaForét's blog:  http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2013/04/04/movi-a-revolutionary-handheld-stabilized-system-takes-flight/#more-8312
Logged
Chris Sanderson
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1906



« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2013, 11:25:06 AM »
ReplyReply

Steadicam operators can ditch the vest and spring arm and work on their body tone.  Grin

Truly a fantastic piece of gear in the right hands.
Logged

Christopher Sanderson
The Luminous-Landscape
fredjeang2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 792



« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2013, 11:37:44 AM »
ReplyReply

This is truly amazing! It's going to be the end of many steadycam operators because it's not going to take as much time to get really good at it. (a few weeks of training vs a few years...)
And more people in the unemployement cues!...

« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 11:44:16 AM by fredjeang2 » Logged
ftbt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2013, 02:56:11 PM »
ReplyReply

Well ... it won't be cheap. The model they are demonstrating (the M10) is $15,000.00 and it is basically designed for a DSLR rig with a weight limit of around 10lbs. (Although they do have a video of them flying a stripped down EPIC on it ... so depending upon how heavy your particular camera/lens are and how your camera is outfiited, it just might work for EPIC/Scarlet users). Supposedly they are working on a model for lighter weight cameras, and that will be $7,500.00. And, their heavy-weight model, (the M20), which is in development, will be good for rigs up to 20lbs .... but a price that will rival the cost of a RED EPIC brain! I will be at NAB, so I'll have to take a look.

I am sure the Chinese knock-off artists will be all over this sooner rather than later.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 03:31:33 PM by ftbt » Logged
EgillBjarki
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 152



WWW
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2013, 10:28:54 PM »
ReplyReply

Well ... it won't be cheap. The model they are demonstrating (the M10) is $15,000.00 and it is basically designed for a DSLR rig with a weight limit of around 10lbs. (Although they do have a video of them flying a stripped down EPIC on it ... so depending upon how heavy your particular camera/lens are and how your camera is outfiited, it just might work for EPIC/Scarlet users). Supposedly they are working on a model for lighter weight cameras, and that will be $7,500.00. And, their heavy-weight model, (the M20), which is in development, will be good for rigs up to 20lbs .... but a price that will rival the cost of a RED EPIC brain! I will be at NAB, so I'll have to take a look.

I am sure the Chinese knock-off artists will be all over this sooner rather than later.

My thoughts were that this would be expensive, did not know the details until now. This is an amazing little thing! I am sure this will be a hit, but not bigger than 5D Mark II was when i came out. This seems to be mid level to high level videographer equipment.

For stabilisation, you can buy a decent steady-cam, throw on there a kit with in camera or lens with IS and you can get pretty good results!
Logged

jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3474



WWW
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 07:11:20 AM »
ReplyReply

The advantage of this piece of kit seems to have over current grip stuff it that it is quick to use and is small. This will save a lot of time and thus recoup it's money pretty quickly in professional situations as well as being more versatile where space is an issue. The shot [done on skates] following the taxi is stunningly good camerawork and looks like something out of a Scorsese film.

We've got a steadicam set up, but I'd rather have one of these as it would suit how I like to shoot much better. Though I'm going to have to work on my skating on rough surfaces skills a bit more.
Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2217


WWW
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 08:45:49 AM »
ReplyReply

No doubt this is a cool thing. Particularly the ability fly through windows and other small spaces;
Id love to get one probably as a remote head on a jib.

However it seems that it might not be 'everything'

The first operator, still has to control the XY and Z axes - hold the thing -, (as opposed to yaw tilt and roll (YTR)) - now the arm is a good stabiliser in XY and Z, but this very fast becomes physically demanding in the extreme.

A steadicam both stablises  YTR and XYZ

Again holding a stable 'lock off' shot in XYZ is hard - one of the advantages of a dolly over a steadicam is one can move and then hold a lockoff indefinitely

so it is not a replacement of a dolly or a steadicam

The first operator would seem to need a monitor, which would need power, and for use in daylight, be a daylight viewable wide angle screen, such start monitors at around $3k and add more mass to hold up, add a $15k bartech focus and the price rises seriously into cine worlds

Now the second operator is using, I guess, a joystick to control pan and tilt - most electronic joysticks do not provide the tactile control required for fine camera movements in the way that a physical contact with the camera does

Now we have to mix the two operators - so for a circling shot the camera needs to pan left while the camera moves right - for the two operators to synchronise their movements will be an art in the extreme - doubtless a good steadicam operator will be able to synch their own movements far more organically than two operators - one operator operating through a non tactile joystick

I would therefore think it is a great tool but probably not exactly the magic bullet some seem to think

S
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 12:41:11 PM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
fredjeang2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 792



« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2013, 10:32:28 AM »
ReplyReply

No doubt this is a cool thing. Particularly the ability fly through windows and other small spaces;
Id love to get one probably as a remote head on a jib.

However it seems that it might not be 'everything'

The first operator, still has to control the XY and Z axes, (as opposed to yaw tilt and roll (YTR)) - now the arm is a good stabiliser in XY and Z, but this very fast becomes physically demanding in the extreme.

A steaidicam both stablises  YTR and XYZ
Again holding a stable 'lock off' shot in XYZ is hard - one of the advantages of a dolly is one can move and then hold a lockoff indefinitely

so it is not a replacement of a dolly or a steadicam

The first operator would seem to need a monitor, which would need power and for use in daylight be a daylight viewable wide angel scree, such start monitors at around $3k, add a $15k bartech focus and the price rises seriously into cine worlds

now the second operator is using I guess a joystick to control pan and tilt - most electronic joysticks do not provide the tactile control required for fine camera movements in the way that a physical contact with the camera does

now we have to mix the two operators - so for a circling shot the camera needs to pan left while the camera moves right - for the two operators to synchronise their movements will be an art in the extreme - doubtless a good steadicam operator will be able to synch their own movements far more organically than two operators - one operator operatinging through a non tactile joystick

I would therefore think it is a great tool but probably not exactly the magic bullet some seem to think

S
I agree with all you wrote. Passed the first moment of the "whao", I've been looking more carefully and I came to the same conclusions as yours.
Logged
jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3474



WWW
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 06:34:38 PM »
ReplyReply

No doubt this is a cool thing. Particularly the ability fly through windows and other small spaces;
Id love to get one probably as a remote head on a jib.

However it seems that it might not be 'everything'
No tool is. So what's the problem?

Quote
The first operator, still has to control the XY and Z axes - hold the thing -, (as opposed to yaw tilt and roll (YTR)) - now the arm is a good stabiliser in XY and Z, but this very fast becomes physically demanding in the extreme.
A steadicam both stablises  YTR and XYZ
and a steadicam is darned heavy and physically demanding to use. As are most serious camera rigs.

Quote
Again holding a stable 'lock off' shot in XYZ is hard - one of the advantages of a dolly over a steadicam is one can move and then hold a lockoff indefinitely
so it is not a replacement of a dolly or a steadicam
and a 50mm lens isn't a replacement for a 24mm lens either. That's why people tend to use the different tools for different jobs.  Tongue
Besides a lot of drama camera work is hand held these days when previously it would have been on a dolly/sticks.

Quote
The first operator would seem to need a monitor, which would need power, and for use in daylight, be a daylight viewable wide angle screen, such start monitors at around $3k and add more mass to hold up, add a $15k bartech focus and the price rises seriously into cine worlds
Used these in daylight with and without hood and besides this device is cine world price to start with anyway. Not to mention if you watch camera operator, his eyes are mostly on subject not the LCD monitor as the second operator can fine tune framing.

Quote
Now the second operator is using, I guess, a joystick to control pan and tilt - most electronic joysticks do not provide the tactile control required for fine camera movements in the way that a physical contact with the camera does
yet the one used seems to do the job very nicely.

Quote
Now we have to mix the two operators - so for a circling shot the camera needs to pan left while the camera moves right - for the two operators to synchronise their movements will be an art in the extreme - doubtless a good steadicam operator will be able to synch their own movements far more organically than two operators - one operator operating through a non tactile joystick
Or maybe only having to do one of the two tasks to do will be much easier. Which is exactly what the camera operator said.

If I had the spare cash, I'd rush out and get one right away. The reason being that tool fits with how I like to shoot, far more than any other.
Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
bill t.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2693


WWW
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 09:51:22 PM »
ReplyReply

Sci Tech Award for sure.  Brilliant system.  Doesn't look too intrusive on the set, that's they key.  But OTOH I have seen some pretty great shots in that genre done with nothing more than a balance rod, and perhaps most of the shots in that piece could have worked that way.  Whatever else, this thing is gonna see some heavy use real soon.  First Person Observer is the future of theatrical, mark my words.  3lb cameras have changed everything.
Logged
fredjeang2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 792



« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2013, 05:53:48 AM »
ReplyReply

IMO, the big plus of this peice of gear
Is that it's going to be faster to be operative with.
A good steady operator takes years of practise.

What we are seeing on every fronts is that
Engineering puts mediums to our range and
That this industry is indeed changing completly.

Logged
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2217


WWW
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2013, 02:30:15 AM »
ReplyReply

So what's the problem?

JJJ - Ill try and respond to your responses - ill para phrase your quotes Smiley

-Just a tool

Indeed and a really really cool one - just not the 'magic bullet' some have suggested

-Heavy
A steadicam has an arm to support the mass.
Im sure this device especially used in a moving vehicle will exhibit a lot of instability in the X axes particularly in moving vehicles and the like - ie the op will not have the strenght not to dip the camera as the vehicle bounces

-Right tool
again I agree - but the 'replaces a dolly' is not my quote its 'populating' the internet fora and blogosphere

-Monitor viewability
I have a DP6 for my main rig (also a Transvideo on my Steadicam)- not a DP7 - frankly for exteriors the DP6 is only of any use with a deep sunshade - but when manipulating the camera from floor to head you cant use a deep sunshade due to the changing viewing angle/location - you need IMO a proper daylight monitor like Transvideo - super expensive - the DP7 may be a step on from the Dp6 of course..

As for the (first) operator not needing to frame well becuase the second op can do it with pan and tilt - well thats an insult to any photographer/film maker - physical position of the camera is critical to our compositional art

-Joystick - the one used seems to do the job very nicely
Actually IMO the framing on the video is not up there with a good steadicam/dolly/remote head operator - there are many shots both on ground and in helicopter where you can see the two ops 'fighting' leading to non smooth (pulsing) pans and poor headroom control

Interestingly I wonder how much this could be cured by reframing in post if one shot loose framing with spare resolution.

-Or maybe only having to do one of the two tasks to do will be much easier. Which is exactly what the camera operator said.

Maybe their opinion but IMO (and that of many steadicam ops way better than me) having full control leads to truly 'organic' shooting.

-If I had the spare cash, I'd rush out and get one right away.

So would I Smiley





















« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 02:37:50 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
Sareesh Sudhakaran
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 547


WWW
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2013, 05:15:27 AM »
ReplyReply

For all the 'leg shots' in that video, you'd think Vincent could have shown some skin.

I'm not too sure I'd like to use this with an Alexa or Epic - it's going to be murder on someone's back. I watched the videos but couldn't find any kind of body support.

And is it just me or did the roller skates look like the more important gear in that car shot? Now your operator also has to be a stuntman.

I'll wait till an experienced Steadicam operator actually uses one for a month 8 hours a day and still recommends it over the Steadicam.
Logged

Get the Free Comprehensive Guide to Rigging ANY Camera - one guide to rig them all - DSLRs to the Arri Alexa.
Pete_G
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 233


WWW
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2013, 07:59:34 AM »
ReplyReply

First Person Observer is the future of theatrical, mark my words.  3lb cameras have changed everything.

OMG I hope not, that would truly be the final nail in the coffin for cinema.
Logged

___________________
http://www.petergoddard.org
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2217


WWW
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2013, 11:01:04 AM »
ReplyReply

OMG I hope not, that would truly be the final nail in the coffin for cinema.

I think light 'camera heads' are great for the film making process (as opposed to the industry)

They have made inventions such as this possible and in the big picture that is great..

S
Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
Chris Barrett
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 237


« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2013, 04:10:06 PM »
ReplyReply

Wednesday morning I woke up from a hard night's drinking at NAB and put in my pre-order.  Once you get this thing into your hands your wallet seems to magically pop out.  One way to deal with user fatigue while flying an Epic is to connect this to an EasyRig.  I'm coming up with tons of ideas on how to implement this.  I rarely ever use my jib just because the damn thing takes so long to setup.

Here's a little video of my buddy Bill giving it a go.  Once we got back to Chicago he ordered one too... it's absolutely infectious.

http://christopherbarrett.net/forum_images/MoVi.mp4

CB
Logged
ftbt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2013, 05:13:45 PM »
ReplyReply

I played with it as well. Very impressive. However, don't forget that the demo rig was flying only a lightweight DSLR camera-w-a kit lens, with no external battery, follow focus, or wireless video transmitter. It is going to be bit of a different experience-w-a Scarlet or an Epic, once you add the weight of that sort of camera, a cine lens, external battery, etc.

Since I own a RED, I asked the guys at the booth if I could handle the M10 that they had fitted with an Epic, just to get an idea of the weight. Apparently, the M10 fitted with the Epic was just to "look at," since the answer was, NO.  Hmmm.

Still, I think it is one hell of a product. A bit pricey ... something that the Chinese will remedy in the not too distant future.
Logged
Peter McLennan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1687


« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2013, 07:09:41 PM »
ReplyReply

Steadicam operators can ditch the vest and spring arm and work on their body tone.  Grin

Truly a fantastic piece of gear in the right hands.

No kidding.  I tried this system and realized that you need to be STRONG.  It did exhibit some of the failures of gyro stabilization, with lag and precession, but as Chris said, in the right hands, it'll make a lot of difficult shots quicker and easier than a Steadicam.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad