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Author Topic: More Blackmagic  (Read 12016 times)
KevinA
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« on: April 08, 2013, 01:42:05 PM »
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http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/
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Kevin.
fredjeang2
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2013, 02:07:44 PM »
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THIS... is a bomb!
I always wanted a miniature high performance camera and the closest I could get in that spirit was a GH2. But the Panas, because of their pro market protection politics, have some serious limitations on purpose. This is way more what I was looking for. (although instead of Prores I would have frankly prefered DNxHD but at least it's 422). Log, I applaude. Raw, I applaude twice. 220MB/s in Prores, that's more tan enough for broadcast. In CC the image will stands still.

This could even threaten seriously the Canons and cameras like the AF100 and FS100. Price is ridiculous !

It will obliged Panasonic to be less conservative in their comming GH line and force them to accept the current stream. We will all benefit of that.

This is going to sell like pancakes all over the world. The best bang-for-the-buck since years. It could become a cult camera.

No surprise if we won't be able to buy one for months, doubt that BMC will be able to feed the demand.


That's what Panasonic never endeed to understand (that's what the GH3 should have been and not again the same 4.2.0 8bits, no log saga). Now they got it.
If they don't react very soon to that and bring the GH4 to the same league in video is that their strategy dept are monkeys.

Oh, I thought the downside would be the powering but no! There is a 12V Jack.

BRAVO!

Ps: It remains to be seen the LUT support. Maybe NAB will tell.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 12:33:30 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
fredjeang2
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2013, 03:25:03 PM »
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It's going to be the walkarround camera of Red users.


Small, elegant, powerfull, and truly usable for high-end.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 12:33:50 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
BJL
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2013, 04:49:34 PM »
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... and it big brother, in Super 35mm format: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k/
For US prices and details all three models, see http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/
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michael
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2013, 05:08:55 PM »
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The Black Magic Pocket Cinema Camera (BMPCC) is going to kick some serious ass in the DSLR and CSC marketplace.

If it delivers, and if BM delivers this summer (their track record isn't that good) the majors such as Panasonic are going to have to rethink their video strategy big time. Raw video and MFT lens mount with electronic control and 13.5 stops of DR for $995. Pretty slick and aggressive.

I'll take two please.

Michael
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Chris L
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2013, 05:56:17 PM »
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If this is anything like the BMCC then I will get it as my B cam. I got my BMCC in December and am blown away by the DR and file quality. It is the only digital capture device that has "looked like film" for me. It looks like 35mm color negative film. And I am only shooting Pro Res.
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MrSmith
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2013, 05:57:38 PM »
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I want one. The sensor size doesn't bother me, fast lenses are not expensive and I guess it will work with the metabones speed booster. The dynamic range and ability to grade without breaking up will be a big plus compared to working with DSLR. I hope it lives up to the hype.
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2013, 06:07:23 PM »
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the majors such as Panasonic are going to have to rethink their video strategy big time. Raw video and MFT lens mount with electronic control and 13.5 stops of DR for $995. Pretty slick and aggressive.

I'll take two please.

Michael


My thoughts exactly.

This is going to be a cult camera. I'll take 2 also.

Does someone knows what will be the exact crop factor with m4/3 lenses?



Holy crap! Those specs are profesional specs except the connections at less tan 1000 bucks. The footage will truly be mixable with Alexas and Red cameras for an HD output.
No hassles in color correction. It can be powered by the industry available devices.

And Michael, it will probably be more suitable for interviews also. Now that you use the multicam in FCPx, we will have Lu-La videos like Hollywood prods with cams everywhere.

BMC is also walking on Red Land with the big brother.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 12:34:54 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
KevinA
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2013, 03:50:32 AM »
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Will Pana's stabilised lenses work with this?
I think I might just order the camera and take a chance on the negatives.
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2013, 07:35:16 AM »
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Love it. The size and simplicity...and price. This is the movie equivalent of the Sigma DPxM (but no fixed lens).
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2013, 10:23:26 AM »
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The only limitation is that cinema DNG isn't currently supported by a lot of NLE. But that's going to change.

Resolve of course (that acts as a RCX for DNG), and FCPx (no comment Chris, no comment...)

Not always Resolve is the best option for everyone, specially for the transcode. The ideal would be to have Access to the source material
and the metadatas within the editor.
Also, not everybody would choose Resolve to CC (I don't) and it makes it almost an obliged step with DNG wich means a learning curve
just to Access the format. But as the format is open, this situation will fortunatly change soon but this is still the wild west.

We really need the major NLEs to adopt once for awhile this open format as a standart RAW.

Ok, FCPx users have a sweet advantage there. Huh
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 12:36:38 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
Pete_G
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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2013, 01:01:19 PM »
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Fred, (Good to see you back here BTW)

Resolve 9 is pretty straightforward now for creating dailies, the more advanced stuff is a bit of a learning curve I'll agree, but I can't see how they could make those kind of features really simple.

Check out the Avid site, they have announced Media Composer 7, available in June. One of the big features seems to be a more advanced AMA, where it seems you
can set Avid to transcode in the background while still editing, and it would seem that linking back and forth to original camera files is far more advanced.

If you are on MC 6.0 then now is a good time to upgrade to 6.5 as you will then be entitled to a free upgrade to 7.00. I just done that.

Oh..and BTW, the RAW support for the Blackmagic camera would appear to be coming later...whatever that means.
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BJL
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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2013, 02:10:25 PM »
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Another thing about that $4,000 Super-35mm format Blackmagic Production Camera 4K is that it has a global shutter.
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k/techspecs

Meanwhile, RED has also added a global shutter option through this LCD shutter adaptor (the approach used for super hight speed still cameras)
http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/08/red-unveils-the-motion-mount/
but that adaptor alone costs $4,500, more than the entire BlackMagic Production Camera body!

Before anyone complains, I am sure that RED offers some significant quality advantages which make it preferable for sufficiently high-end applications like motion picture production, and the "BPC 4K" sensor is actually smaller than true Super 35mm, but at the level of television production and such, prices and sizes might be moving down fast as new competitors with new ideas enter the field.

What do the folks in this forum who do videos for commercials think?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 02:13:59 PM by BJL » Logged
fredjeang2
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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2013, 03:16:54 PM »
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Fred, (Good to see you back here BTW)

Resolve 9 is pretty straightforward now for creating dailies, the more advanced stuff is a bit of a learning curve I'll agree, but I can't see how they could make those kind of features really simple.

Check out the Avid site, they have announced Media Composer 7, available in June. One of the big features seems to be a more advanced AMA, where it seems you
can set Avid to transcode in the background while still editing, and it would seem that linking back and forth to original camera files is far more advanced.

If you are on MC 6.0 then now is a good time to upgrade to 6.5 as you will then be entitled to a free upgrade to 7.00. I just done that.

Oh..and BTW, the RAW support for the Blackmagic camera would appear to be coming later...whatever that means.

Thanks for the kinds words Pete.

I am on MC 6.5 already.

On the coming 7, wait, this only is on Beta. I've been asking today and there is very Little conclusions yet to take.

What is sure is that the bins would act as a watch folder and you can create custom metadatas to apply batch actions (that shouldn't be limited to transcode, see my post further) to all the material dropped into the bins even with the application closed.

But the remaining questions are the LUT and CDL supports and this point isn't clear yet. Yes there will be LUT and CDL support but how will that be integrated into the new bins structures that's another story
and for now all we can do is wait.

The very good news is that even if it's still HD, at least the Pan&Zoom is reso independant so more than HD is croppable without loosing reso anymore. It was time, but better late tan never.

In fact, I was expecting a DS remake and that Avid would compeat with Autodesk (because the DS CC is better than in Smoke and the platform already exists) but it seems that it's not going to happen and seems that its destiny is to "die". They merged MC with Symphony, now Symphony being a boost option. It was logical, but the DS "abandon" surprised me a lot.

Strategicaly, it Seems that Avid has considered a better bet to replace DS by...Resolve. It's a mixed bag decision IMO. The thing is that Resolve lacks compositing capabilities that has DS. I would have understood more this decision if they did a "replacement" with Scratch, but Resolve is basicaly a CC App. It's still the wild west and for now many questions remain without answers.

About the BMC support, it means for ex that if they've done the homework properly, not only we would transcode DNG from AMA instead of from Resolve, wich is very welcome, BUT (and IF...) also that we could load LUT-CDL generated in Resolve without needing to send the timeline in Da-Vinci, just metadatas Exchange file.  So an operator completly independant can work on individual clips on Resolve and batch apply the generated looks in MC automatically in elected clips (that shared the same color decisión) and applied in the edited log sequence (with just a refresh sequence if they keep the same implementation as current) without the need of roundtripping. So it would reduce the roundtripping necesity to tasks like mask+track etc...but not more for basic CC. It would be a bit like working with RMDs but instead of RCX, with the power of Resolve.
But this is not confirmed yet.
What seems to be more likely is that the roundtrip will be cleaner and easier, but it's probably gona take some time before engineers reach the ideal robustness. So for me, zero rush to upgrade to 7 until they enhance it a bit.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 05:21:19 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2013, 04:38:32 PM »
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Well it happens faster than I thought. Global shutter with 4 k and at this data rate means a larger res chip with it and slower frame rate is probably coming soon.
And again it is driven by the Video and film people.
And even better: the price tag is amazing.
The screens are on rollout e.g. here and others:
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&identifier=S_4KTV

Maybe prores video has already started killing photography........

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2013, 05:03:47 PM »
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Well it happens faster than I thought. Global shutter with 4 k and at this data rate means a larger res chip with it and slower frame rate is probably coming soon.
And again it is driven by the Video and film people.
And even better: the price tag is amazing.
The screens are on rollout e.g. here and others:
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&identifier=S_4KTV

Maybe prores video has already started killing photography........

Greetings from Germany
Stefan

Hi Stefan, nice to see you here.

So, are we going to have a Hartblei cine gear ? Well sure that Hartblei lenses are killers mounted on a Canon video because their quality is stunning.

I agree that were the buzz is right now is in video engineering.
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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2013, 05:25:50 PM »
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it´s funny that several journalists are now writing about  how unneccessary 4k or even 8k res  is.
I can as well remember when HD video was starting the prognosis was the same- too expensive, not enough content...... bla, bla. bla

 Roll Eyes

Blackmagic is a hot company. I would wish I could talk to them, must be interesting people who are so focused on their own thing.
I can remember when Digital photography was new, there was the same enthusiasm, Leaf comes to my mind and Dicomed and the early Phase One.

And yes, I am looking into something video, but not what people may expect. The Flashes that we sell now are just a start into this direction.

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2013, 05:26:37 PM »
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What do the folks in this forum who do videos for commercials think?

I'd go Alexas in rental in Prores workflow. Gorgeous, straightforward.

Not that I don't like Red. On the Contrary, but personaly (again this is just me), I don't really get yet their color science. The way they market it is very weired and still results to me confusing.

The only thing would be that Graeme Nattress write a complete book on that, but Red color science is IMO a Little "weired".

Red users will say noooo of course.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 05:32:58 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
fredjeang2
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« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2013, 05:30:29 PM »
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And yes, I am looking into something video, but not what people may expect. The Flashes that we sell now are just a start into this direction.

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
That's great to hear. It's what makes it and keeps it alive and the good thing is that you got that push, it will work.

I'm sure that if you do something, it's going to be special, like Hartblei is already in camera still. Specialized camera for special high-end needs.

Really nice to see you're in the fload of all those changes in imagery.
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Pete_G
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« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2013, 05:59:29 PM »
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What do the folks in this forum who do videos for commercials think?

Well I don't shoot adverts, but I do cut them, and for my money (without going into all the technical stuff) I think Alexa images just look better than other systems, more like film. While, in photography, I have absolutely no problem with digital at all, in motion pictures I'm still sitting on the fence, I love the film look and am waiting for digital to really prove it's worth. Perhaps in film we've had to suffer, for many years, the awful technology of video; a truly second rate imaging system. Only now, in the last couple of years, is electronic motion picture imaging becoming decent.

What I really like about the BM Super 16 camera is, not that it's a good professional tool, but that it (sounds like) a damn good "camcorder", to use a derogatory term.

As for all this 4-5K stuff, it's just marketing gone mad. Who cares? HD is fine for pretty well everything at the moment - I'd like to see better films being made, rather than sharper ones.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 06:05:59 PM by Pete_G » Logged

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