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Author Topic: Ink Aid Products  (Read 2071 times)
routlaw
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« on: April 10, 2013, 10:57:19 AM »
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Anyone here have experience with the Inkaid coatings? How do they compare with other state of the art paper/coatings from companies like Canson, Hahnamuelle etc?

Thanks in advance.
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bteifeld
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 01:21:25 PM »
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Inkaid produces inkjet ink receptor coatings which are used by people who want
to coat their own substrates(paper, metal, etc.) in order to prepare them for
printing by a water-based ink inkjet printer. Golden Paint also makes these kind
of coatings and calls them "digital grounds".

The other companies you mentioned provide papers which are already coated
and ready for water-based ink inkjet printing.
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routlaw
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 03:21:56 PM »
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THanks but I am aware of all this, what I wanted to know is how good are these coatings in comparison to the other products mentioned. I Have been printing with large format inkjet prints for well over a decade but have not tried any of the aftermarket DIY coatings. Sorry for not making my initial post more clear.

Inkaid produces inkjet ink receptor coatings which are used by people who want
to coat their own substrates(paper, metal, etc.) in order to prepare them for
printing by a water-based ink inkjet printer. Golden Paint also makes these kind
of coatings and calls them "digital grounds".

The other companies you mentioned provide papers which are already coated
and ready for water-based ink inkjet printing.
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Damir
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2013, 03:57:11 AM »
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You can never coat so perfectly - but if you need perfection you will not use Ink Aid. Any attempt to use it on paper make paper uneven and wrinkly, so you need to prepare paper as painter does. I mostly use clear coating on metal for metal prints. I am satisfied with it, as there is no other alternative here in Croatia, but as I told you it is difficult to coat perfectly so there is a lot of waste.
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neile
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2013, 08:07:51 AM »
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I've used it to try and coat aluminum before. Gave up, bought pre-coated aluminum instead.

Neil
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Neil Enns
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2013, 08:30:47 AM »
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It works.  But it's fussy.  I've used it on metal and vellum.  If you're using it on metal, you need to prep the metal very well so that the material adheres and doesn't bead in places.  On paper or similar media (e.g., vellum) it will soak in and can cause the medium to ripple.  This can be good if you're going for a different look.  I use it for my pigment over metal leaf prints and the rippling gives an aged type of look which suits the process.  The drying time for the ink is substantially longer.  Unlike prepared media, the ink won't be dry straight out of the printer.  You need to leave the InkAid prints for a few days to fully dry.  Sometimes the ink will never fully dry.
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routlaw
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2013, 10:41:52 AM »
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Thanks this is more like the info I was hoping to find before investing a ton of time with it, and Vellum is one of the papers I had intended to work with. I am curious did you ever try precoating any of the papers (especially Vellum) with some sort of water proof application such as Print Shield? It would seem that adding this extra step might prevent any ripple or buckling of the paper once the InkAid or other such coating was applied. I do have a true HVLP spraying system which might provide a more accurate coating… maybe.

With my Canon iPF 8300 I have found the paper needs to be really flat or else the print head will rub across the surface.

rob
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Dave Carter
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2013, 07:05:39 PM »
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Routlaw,

I have a Fuji HVLP spray system (4 stage noisy one), that I am using Ink Aid for printing directly on styrene.  We are pre coating large sheets for stock.  There is some loss, but in general, the results are good.  I think the losses are very much do to my spray painting ability and trying to get the spray area cleaner.  Generally, prints are in the 30"- 40" length range.  And the IQ is not for viewing at 10".

I further overcoat the prints after printing and drying, to make them more durable.

We have not sold any of these yet, but are getting more comfortable with the process.  Also looking for other pre coats to compare.
Dave
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2013, 07:29:59 AM »
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Thanks this is more like the info I was hoping to find before investing a ton of time with it, and Vellum is one of the papers I had intended to work with. I am curious did you ever try precoating any of the papers (especially Vellum) with some sort of water proof application such as Print Shield? It would seem that adding this extra step might prevent any ripple or buckling of the paper once the InkAid or other such coating was applied. I do have a true HVLP spraying system which might provide a more accurate coating… maybe.

With my Canon iPF 8300 I have found the paper needs to be really flat or else the print head will rub across the surface.

rob

You're talking about Eco Print Shield?  Or a similar coating?  No, haven't tried that.  But don't think it would work.  The vellum is still going to get wet.  It's the getting wet that causes the rippling.  Eco is an aqueous product as well.  To try and minimise the rippling, I tape the two long edges of the vellum onto a flat surface.  The vellum expands when it gets wet.  This causes it to become loose again even though it's taped.  I move the tape to keep it taught but as it dries, it does so unevenly and causes rippling along the edges.  The field is pretty good.  Without taping the entire sheet curls as it dries and becomes unusable.  Taping is a must, I've found. 

I use an Epson 3800 and haven't had any issues with head strikes in the field of the print.  Where it may crop up is along the edges where the rippling is worst but I don't care about it there.  If need be, I can increase the platen gap which will help with head strikes too.  The biggest issue is getting the vellum to feed into the printer.  Sometimes I have to tape the leading edge to another sheet of paper.  Typically I just use a sheet of something cheap like Enhanced Matte.
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routlaw
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2013, 11:35:06 AM »
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Thanks Dave and Bob for the additional info. The print shield I was referring to is most assuredly not water based, its a lacquer based product and smells accordingly which does off at least water repellency if not complete water proofing to some degree. For canvas prints I have been using the Clear Star Type C aqueous based coatings which is by far the best I have tried over the years. So I know of what you speak when it comes water based coatings, even tried this stuff over some Hahnamuelle Photo Rag once, oddly enough the print curled, rippled like crazy but as it dried the print laid down almost perfectly flat to my surprise. However this was a fairly large print which might have helped to mitigate the flatness.

Interesting that you are printing on styrene of all products Dave.

Rob
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routlaw
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2013, 12:15:25 PM »
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http://www.premierart.info/pc_printshield.php

Just to be clear this is the product I was referring to for water proofing/repellency.

Thanks again.
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Damir
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2013, 05:03:03 AM »
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HP have prepared Vellum for printing.

Regarding rippling - painters have the same problem with vater based paint, they have systems how to prepare paper before painting, it is called sizing the paper, maybe you should try to find more info about that technique:

http://painting.about.com/cs/watercolours/ht/Howto_WCstretch.htm
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2013, 07:25:28 AM »
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Rob, if you applied a laquer-based water resistant coating, my concern then would be that the InkAid wouldn't adhere.
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marytaylorart
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2013, 08:56:31 AM »
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I've used mosts of the inkAID products on metal, acrylic, paper, etc.   Not on true velum.  Any time I use it on a surface that wrinkles I just iron it with a heat press or hand iron to flatten the substrate for easy printing.   

I've compared it to Golden Paint Digital Grounds and DASS inkjet precoats all the products are similar, but I still prefer the inkAID in part because I like the inkAID colored products.  If one is just comparing the clear products I see little difference between them.  My substrates are all custom and I enjoy the hand quality of coating my own substrates. 

If my goal is perfectly precoated substrates then I purchase those from commercial suppliers and don't waste my time trying to attempt perfect applications of inkjet precoat.  Within my website is a FAQ about printing on aluminum and I do things a little differently to clean the aluminum but over all it does show what results one can get by coating your own with inkAID.  http://marytaylorart.com/FAQ/inkAID.htm

I use paint brushes, foam brushes and apply multiple coats to achieve the amount of inkjet holdout.   I hope this is useful information. 
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routlaw
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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2013, 12:34:02 PM »
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Rob, if you applied a laquer-based water resistant coating, my concern then would be that the InkAid wouldn't adhere.

Good point, but if Ink Aid can adhere to metal, plastics and a host of other "non paper" items it would seem to me that hanging on to a lacquer over paper substance would not be a large problem.
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routlaw
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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2013, 02:50:47 PM »
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I've used mosts of the inkAID products on metal, acrylic, paper, etc.   Not on true velum.  Any time I use it on a surface that wrinkles I just iron it with a heat press or hand iron to flatten the substrate for easy printing.   

I've compared it to Golden Paint Digital Grounds and DASS inkjet precoats all the products are similar, but I still prefer the inkAID in part because I like the inkAID colored products.  If one is just comparing the clear products I see little difference between them.  My substrates are all custom and I enjoy the hand quality of coating my own substrates. 

If my goal is perfectly precoated substrates then I purchase those from commercial suppliers and don't waste my time trying to attempt perfect applications of inkjet precoat.  Within my website is a FAQ about printing on aluminum and I do things a little differently to clean the aluminum but over all it does show what results one can get by coating your own with inkAID.  http://marytaylorart.com/FAQ/inkAID.htm

I use paint brushes, foam brushes and apply multiple coats to achieve the amount of inkjet holdout.   I hope this is useful information. 

Mary thats quite the process you're going through on some of your work. Point well taken regarding precoated commercially made vs hand coated papers also. In any case I am going to give the InkAid products a go, should be an interesting and hopefully fun experiment.

Rob
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