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Author Topic: This is quite amusing..  (Read 10904 times)
FredBGG
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« on: April 14, 2013, 09:48:18 AM »
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I got a laugh out of this one!

http://youtu.be/bqnS9MpOlr8

I watched this video hoping to see the wifi working as it is a really interesting feature, but you don't actually see it in action,
but the video is a real laugh.

The discription is a good start:
Quote
Watch how the Phase One IQ2 camera system and Capture Pilot reconnects landscape photographer Joe Cornish
with his traditional working methods as a large format photographer.

The part about being able to see the image upside down to see if the composition is good.....

Also pretending that you can actually see something useful on an ipad out in direct light.....

Not to mention very limited battery life in cold temperatures, as well as the thing just packing up till it's warmed up again.

I think the only real analogy with using an 8x10 and an ipad/MFDB is that you need to go under a black cape to see the image
usefully.

Even in the video that is partly overcast you can barely see the image on the ipad.

You've got to love these marketing videos.... Wink

His pictures are beautiful though...
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 10:08:50 AM by FredBGG » Logged
KLaban
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2013, 11:15:18 AM »
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I got a laugh out of this one!

Hey, you really need to get out more.
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Rob C
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2013, 12:16:47 PM »
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I don't know about getting out more - maybe I need to too (neat!), but as for turning the thing upside down... Heysoos! that was the biggest pain in the ass I ever experienced with the various 4x5 cameras that it had been my misfortune to have to deal with in my employee days! What a pile of bollocks! On the other hand, if one can claim that one's brain is hampered by such conditioning, and that one can no longer see a picture the right way up, evaluate its intrinsic charm, potency and beauty, then it's time for the funny farm. BUT, if anyone can convince anyone else out there that that's a good thing, the new best thing in fact, then God help the photographers who buy into such nonsense.

It's yet another example of the fable of the little fox (foxlet? cublet?) that got its tail cut off; it wanted all the other little foxes to get theirs cut off too. I believe that the little fox had no luck convincing any of them. But this is photography... it's open season all year round.

Finally finished turning my cassettes into mp3 files. Also discovered one or two cassettes were kaput. Perhaps I shall have to listen to them whilst I spin; not such a brilliant concept when driving. Well, it's Sunday, what did you expect?

Rob C
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FredBGG
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2013, 01:17:43 PM »
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Hey, you really need to get out more.

Actually I do get out.... shoot on location quite a lot and know perfectly well that you can't use an iPad effectively to view images straight or upside down
without a black tent.

I know a thing or two about reviewing images on location as I do get out and shoot this sort of stuff at the beach....
It's very important to be able to review images well with the model especially if partial nudity is part of the shoot.



Actually I take on location image review very seriously and choose to use a tablet PC so that I can use Lightroom to auto process and review images
with a preview of the final look.

In the real world this is what you get 90% of the time.... and this is with the Slate that is a bit brighter than the iPad.



and this is what the sky looked like when I shot the tablet.....



So you can imagine with a bit of sunlight....
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2013, 03:02:58 PM »
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LOL.

You're the best Fred.

Nitpicking advertising for not being an objective documentary is like the line in Casablanca "I'm shocked to discover there is gambling going on in this establishment".

Would you believe that in those commercials for gum that the girl isn't actually spontaneously kissing the boy?? Those lying bastards.

As a side note, I know that for *some* photographers viewing the image upside down, or squinting, is a useful tool for evaluating the composition and play of dark vs. light in abstraction from the details of the subject itself. But if that holds no truth for you then you're of course welcome to place the value of such a tool at zero for your needs/style; just don't assume your truth is universal.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 04:39:14 PM by Doug Peterson » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
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Cell: 740.707.2183
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AreBee
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2013, 04:02:29 PM »
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Fred,

Quote from: FredBGG
...the video is a real laugh. The part about being able to see the image upside down to see if the composition is good...

Joe Cornish has for decades composed in this way. Do you consider that it has limited his ability to produce strong compositions, or that his compositions would have been stronger had he been able to compose 'normally'?

Quote from: FredBGG
Not to mention very limited battery life in cold temperatures, as well as the thing just packing up till it's warmed up again.

In cold climes it is good practice to keep a camera battery near to the photographer's body when not in use, and insert it into the camera only when preparing to shoot. If this practice is adopted, battery life will not be limited.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 04:05:06 PM by AreBee » Logged

JoeKitchen
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2013, 04:24:18 PM »
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Fred, thanks for pointing out a critique of the iPad, which was something the original iPad, 5 years ago, also had.  I believe that Amazon and B&N marketed their devices with a matte screen, to make it more attractive in sunlight than the iPad.  

Insofar as looking at an image upside down, it can be quite interesting how different you view it.  As I mentioned in another thread, you would be amazed at how different and less symmetrical a person's faces looks when you look at the picture upside down.  As far as composing this way, not that big a deal, you get use to it.  I spent 5 years on a 4x5 exclusively and it never bothered me (after getting use to it of course).  About a month ago I bought a MF system (from a dealer) with a sliding back after 5 years on a couple different Canon systems.  (Yes, I will give it to you that live view sucks, but that is my feeling in DSLRs too which is why I got a sliding back.)  The one thing I was a little hesitant about was having to look at the image upside again and wondered how long it would take me to get use to it.  About 5 minutes to fall back into it; I was out all day yesterday with the camera and I can not remember once thinking about the fact that the image was upside down and backwards.  

However, I wish I would of thought about sun screen lotion.   Cheesy
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Joe Kitchen
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"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
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FredBGG
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2013, 05:05:41 PM »
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LOL.

You're the best Fred.

Nitpicking advertising for not being an objective documentary is like the line in Casablanca "I'm shocked to discover there is gambling going on in this establishment".

Would you believe that in those commercials for gum that the girl isn't actually spontaneously kissing the boy?? Those lying bastards.

As a side note, I know that for *some* photographers viewing the image upside down, or squinting, is a useful tool for evaluating the composition and play of dark vs. light in abstraction from the details of the subject itself. But if that holds no truth for you then you're of course welcome to place the value of such a tool at zero for your needs/style; just don't assume your truth is universal.

Your comparison to toungue in cheek commercials and these supposed informational videos does not hold up.

Doug stop trying to make this about some stupid universal truth. The video clearly trys to make things seem rosier than they are and it's probably in the edit....

Two gochas here. First is an iPad goes dead in no time in cold weather.
Second you practically can't see anything on the iPad screen when on daytime open sky location, even if it's overcast.

As far as seeing things upside down on an 8x10... I have shot 8x10 for years, including fashion and beauty. I was also sponsored with free 8x10 polaroid
so I shot more than one would expect with that costly media. Composing upside down is never a pleasure whick is why they make these things:

.

iPad in BS promo world:



In the real world


Trying to look at this magazine online:



You can even see the shitty chroma key apple did  Grin


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JoeKitchen
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2013, 05:27:04 PM »
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Fred, I must ask you, if you are against the iPad because of the well known glare it produces in sun light, why were you so interested in asking questions about how well the "Phase back to iPad" worked?  You seemed genuinely interested in learning how this worked.

Was you intention to make us think maybe Fred has an interest in this thing after all only to completely shot it down afterwards? 

Or maybe you were hoping it worked very poorly, which it does not, and now you need to bash another company that has nothing to do with camera technology just to try and make a point?
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Joe Kitchen
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"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
"Try not to be just better than your rivals and contemporaries, try to be better than yourself."  William Faulkner
FredBGG
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2013, 05:28:24 PM »
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Fred,

Joe Cornish has for decades composed in this way. Do you consider that it has limited his ability to produce strong compositions, or that his compositions would have been stronger had he been able to compose 'normally'?

In cold climes it is good practice to keep a camera battery near to the photographer's body when not in use, and insert it into the camera only when preparing to shoot. If this practice is adopted, battery life will not be limited.

Anyone with half a brain will tell you that it's easier to compose the image when it's not upside down. I shot for years on 8x10 and I can assure you that composint upside down does not have any advantages..... unless your subject needs to be exhibited upside down.

As far as keeping your battery going in cold weather... yes you can keep it under your coat, but when you need to use it the battery that is very large and really thin
right up against the back cover of the tablet it will go to hell remarkably quickly.
Apart from that hiking with a tablet under your coat is far from practical.
Probably better to have an external battery pack like the Mophie Juice Pack Powerstation External Battery.

You'll also want touch screen compatible gloves. iPad won't work with regular gloves... the guy in thr video is using tipless gloves...

http://www.macworld.com/article/1156543/touchscreen_gloves_review.html

This WiFi functionality and tablet image review with the IQ2 and DSLRs is very useful, but it's not always the lovely experience they make it out to be.

What would be nice is a case/loup finder for high defenition small tablets like the iPad mini.
I saw something custom make for a DP. A broadcast monitor with a black hood like a giant loup with a black goggle thing.
Once you put your eyes into it all other light is locked out. Looked huge when looking through it.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2013, 05:31:34 PM »
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Fred, I must ask you, if you are against the iPad because of the well known glare it produces in sun light, why were you so interested in asking questions about how well the "Phase back to iPad" worked?  You seemed genuinely interested in learning how this worked.

Was you intention to make us think maybe Fred has an interest in this thing after all only to completely shot it down afterwards? 

Or maybe you were hoping it worked very poorly, which it does not, and now you need to bash another company that has nothing to do with camera technology just to try and make a point?

Having used tablets on location I came up with a solution that is a hood with the eyepiece of an 8x10 toyo reflex finder on it.
I'm talking to a photo accessory company about making something like this ... like a big ass collapsible waist level finder.

Regarding your last comment that's uncalled for as I have written here more than once that the WiFi implementation by phase
is one of the niftyest and smartest things they have done in quite a while.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 05:34:25 PM by FredBGG » Logged
JoeKitchen
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2013, 05:48:20 PM »
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Maybe it was out of line, but why are pointing out a critique that has nothing to do with Phase One's products?

I realize that iPads glare, but the vast majority of tablets in the world are iPads.  To be quite honest, I would much rather have a matte screen.  It annoys me that I have to special order my computers with a matte screen.  But I know no one who uses a tablet that is not an iPad.  It is extremely advantageous for Phase to make the system work with the iPad regardless of its short comings.  As a matter of fact, this goes for any one making a app for a tablet, period.  

And why are you so concerned about cold weather.  Are you not in Cali, where it is 90 and beautiful all of the time.    Wink
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 05:54:54 PM by JoeKitchen » Logged

Joe Kitchen
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"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
"Try not to be just better than your rivals and contemporaries, try to be better than yourself."  William Faulkner
FredBGG
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2013, 06:05:57 PM »
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Maybe it was out of line, but why are pointing out a critique that has nothing to do with Phase One's products?

I realize that iPads glare, but the vast majority of tablets in the world are iPads.  To be quite honest, I would much rather have a matte screen.  It annoys me that I have to special order my computers with a matte screen.  But I know no one who uses a tablet that is not an iPad.  It is extremely advantageous for Phase to make the system work with the iPad regardless of its short comings.  As a matter of fact, this goes for any one making a app for a tablet, period.  

And why are you so concerned about cold weather.  Are you not in Cali, where it is 90 and beautiful all of the time.    Wink

 Grin

But it does have something to do with Phase products... Phase chose the ipad as the tablet to use (right choice as it's popular and common in the ad world)
and the software is by Phase... not to mention the video saying how lovely it is when in reality it's very limited on location as a viewing system.
half the time I'm outdoors shooting I can't even see the screen my phone well enough to make a call without fussing around a bit.

What we need is a nice folding viwfinder for the iPad Cool
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amsp
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2013, 07:37:03 PM »
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http://www.portabrace.com/products/computers/554-ipad-carrying-case-sun-visor
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Alan Klein
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2013, 10:05:37 PM »
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Is it normal to snap  an expensive Phase 1 onto a tripod right over cold running stream water, or would it be smarter to clip it on before you get to the stream? He did it a couple of times and all I could think of it was it going "plop" into the stream.  Maybe a hand lanyard would be helpful?
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2013, 11:09:13 PM »
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Hi,

I think battery life on the iPad is an issue but I can see it is quite useful. There is a product called Cam Ranger that works with Canon and Nikon, would it support Sony I would have ordered it already.

The video shows plenty of glare although shut under overcast conditions.

Regarding shooting under awkward conditions it is one of the areas live view on an articulated screen shines.

Best regards
Erik


I got a laugh out of this one!

http://youtu.be/bqnS9MpOlr8

I watched this video hoping to see the wifi working as it is a really interesting feature, but you don't actually see it in action,
but the video is a real laugh.

The discription is a good start:
The part about being able to see the image upside down to see if the composition is good.....

Also pretending that you can actually see something useful on an ipad out in direct light.....

Not to mention very limited battery life in cold temperatures, as well as the thing just packing up till it's warmed up again.

I think the only real analogy with using an 8x10 and an ipad/MFDB is that you need to go under a black cape to see the image
usefully.

Even in the video that is partly overcast you can barely see the image on the ipad.

You've got to love these marketing videos.... Wink

His pictures are beautiful though...
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FredBGG
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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2013, 12:21:18 AM »
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Doesn't really help. Just helps you see your reflection on the glosy screen better Wink

The problem is overall brighness of the environment. To see the screen well you just need to block out the daylight.
It's kind of like trying to use a 4x5 ground glass without a cape or a Hasselblad 500 without the folding hood just looking down at the screen.

The real problem is that an iPad puts out about 400 nits at full brightness. By daylight viewable broadscat monitors this is nothing.
There are monitors out there with 1500 Nits and more.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 12:38:23 AM by FredBGG » Logged
Wayne Fox
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« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2013, 12:26:11 AM »
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As a side note, I know that for *some* photographers viewing the image upside down, or squinting, is a useful tool for evaluating the composition and play of dark vs. light in abstraction from the details of the subject itself.

Do it all the time, and teach my students as well.  Just rotate the thing 180 in lightroom where suddenly you don't see elements anymore but see shapes, patterns, colors, textures, lines ... all kinds of cool things.  Even drop it to black and white sometime while doing it.  Have changed my composition many times after doing this, and in the case of one image, actually decided it was better upside down.  Happen to be a shot straight up in a slot canyon so there was no real top or bottom, but it looked better after flipping it.
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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2013, 12:45:48 AM »
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Hello,

I spent 25 years looking at images upside down and back to front on my Sinar P2 and it was never a problem with me or my assistant of 12 years. We just got so used to it that it became the norm.

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
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torger
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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2013, 03:26:26 AM »
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I respect Joe Cornish as a photographer so call it laughable would be over the line for me. I agree with all the things he say in the video and think it's true, in the future composing on a large screen live view is probably going to be "it" for tech cams.

However, I'm also not particularly impressed by Apple reliability outdoors, so showing it out in those conditions is a bit daring to say the least. On the other hand it's not a critical component (and it costs nothing in MF terms) so if it fails you can still continue to shoot.

If Phase One was a bit more serious about letting landscape photographers have this tool in the field they would make it compatible with Android too so it would be a wider choice of tablets, but I think they are more into the cool factor in the pro studio, and then throwing an iPad to the client is better than an Android, since Apple still has the lead in being fashionable electronics.

However everyone knows the limitations of the iPad so I don't think it's a big issue it being shown in this video.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 03:37:31 AM by torger » Logged
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