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Author Topic: IQ260 WiFi... anyone seen it in action  (Read 19308 times)
FredBGG
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2013, 07:23:22 PM »
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O.K Fred you win. One really has to admire your tenacity.

I'm going to stay out of this forum for a while thanks to Fred and his incessant sniping.
Anyone with Hasselblad questions (an area where I have pretty good knowledge) please feel free to get in touch via my forum linked below.

Over and out (for a while anyway)

Nick-T

That's classy... leaves but not before plugging his own forum.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2013, 07:42:56 PM »
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Fred,
When you are the last one left here, will you shut out the lights or just keep harping on Phase One and calling people derogatory names? It seems like you are single handily dismantling these forums.    Embarrassed



Come on Eric Nick was being deliberately provocative accusing me of making this whole thread an excuse to sneak in some Nikon agenda.
You know I like this new WiFi feature on the Phase Backs and I've commented more than once that it is a smart implementation.
This leads me to believe that Phase may turn things around as far as their system camera body goes.
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Brian Hirschfeld
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« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2013, 09:20:40 PM »
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I don't know why but a certain side discussion in this thread reminded me of this novel TV show concept; http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/naked-castaway , although I'm sure I'll be told about how eating bugs and nudism is an alternative lifestyle which can be highly fulfilling or something, anyway,

I saw it at the PhaseOne event in NYC, the wait times may have been a little slow, although it should be fully noted that this was using a BETA version of the software, which is not even available on the APP store yet and had to be specially installed AND it is being shot on a PROTOTYPE IQ260 back (which I used for a shoot btw with a review coming soon), so P1 should be given a pass in that they atleast have the technology working and the basic functionality is there which will be great for those who need it....... and can spare the brain cancer or whatever (more coming on this as well ((to disprove this)) )
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FredBGG
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« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2013, 11:44:21 PM »
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so P1 should be given a pass in that they atleast have the technology working and the basic functionality is there which will be great for those who need it....... and can spare the brain cancer or whatever (more coming on this as well ((to disprove this)) )

Hmm safety is something to be considered.

Here is a little something from a WiFi routers manual:

Quote
In order to comply with FCC radio frequency (RF) exposure limits,
antennas should be located at a minimum of 7.9 inches (20 cm) or more from the body of all persons.
Statement 332

The antenna of the IQ2 series are much much closer.





Less than .5 inches.

That is 16 times closer.

Quote
Since radio waves follow the inverse square law – like light, sound and gravity – then each time you double the distance, you get only a quarter of the energy.

So if this is correct having the antena at .5 inches gives you 5 times the exposure compared to the distance the FCC recommends.

What is also important to keep in mind is the exposure differential over the length of for example the optic nerve.
In nature radio sources are very very far away and there is not exposure differential. With a source .5 of an inch the differential is
far far higher than in nature.... or nearly all other WiFi applications.

Something to be to keep in mind when using a device right up against your face and EYE that creates a WiFi network.

Prof Challis, is chairman of the Mobile Telecommunications and Health Research Programme recommends that children
should avoid using a laptop on their lap with WiFi due to the antenna being to close to the leg... and that is a laptop that is more on the receiving
and not creating a WiFi network. I wonder what his recommendation would be for a WiFi being created less than a Cm from the Eyes.

Obviously this is of more concern to someone that spends a significant amount of time with a WiFi camera upto their face.
Fashion catalog could mean the camera is up against the eye for hours on end.

It's worth keeping in mind that it took many years for the risks of smoking to be acknowledged, as well as all sorts of other environmental hazards.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 11:46:42 PM by FredBGG » Logged
abiggs
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« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2013, 06:35:28 AM »
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....it was only a matter if time before the pat on the back turned into a back hand slap.
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Jeffery Salter
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« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2013, 06:48:26 AM »
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 It's a scary world out there.  Microwave ovens, iPhones, iPads, teenagers texting and driving.  We are surrounded by Wi-fi.  It's doubtful a company which is in business to provide equipment to photographers would come out with technology which would cause harm to said photographers.  Not a very wise business plan.

One would possibility be in more harm's way from a bear attack while under a dark cloth composing an image on an 8 x10.


Regards,
Jeffery

****My 50th post!

I revised my earlier post.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 09:40:48 AM by Jeffery Salter » Logged

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design_freak
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« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2013, 07:00:15 AM »
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O.K Fred you win. One really has to admire your tenacity.

I'm going to stay out of this forum for a while thanks to Fred and his incessant sniping.
Anyone with Hasselblad questions (an area where I have pretty good knowledge) please feel free to get in touch via my forum linked below.

Over and out (for a while anyway)

Nick-T

We will miss you  Kiss
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Paul2660
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« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2013, 07:15:21 AM »
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On the WiFi and safety.

1.  Sure can't be any worse than a current phone, iPhone, galaxy etc.  They all have wifi capabilities and they are held pretty close to the head, at least with most folks.   So far, most people don't seem concerned with phone usage and I bet most have the wifi on all the time.   

2.  I have assumed from the start Phase will have a option to have wifi on or off, no need to run it when you don't need it i.e. battery draining.  The only other camera I have with wifi is the Canon 6D, so far I have not even turned it on, but I have the option. I don't know much about Nikon's offerings here, but again I would assume you have an on or off capability.

Time will tell.

Paul Caldwell


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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2013, 08:59:04 AM »
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Initial "joking" by some about WiFi didn't seem to even warrant a response.

But since he seems to be taking it very seriously... the IQ2 has already gone through the same testing that cell phones and other similar devices go through regarding radiation exposure. It passed all European and American industry and legal guidelines. In fact with the test set up to simulate a normal shooting position (viewfinder to eye) the exposure was so minimal they decided to run all qualification testing with the back off of the body and rotated to simulate you putting your cheek directly to the top/bottom of the back (where the antennas are); it still passed with flying colors.

Unless you are the kind that never uses cell phones, lives in the back country away from radio/wifi, and wears tin foil on your head - there is nothing to worry about.

Paul, there is a simple menu setting for the Wifi: Off, On, Ad-Hoc. If you aren't going to use it I'd suggest leaving it off to preserve battery life.
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KLaban
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« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2013, 11:16:45 AM »
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O.K Fred you win. One really has to admire your tenacity.

I'm going to stay out of this forum for a while thanks to Fred and his incessant sniping.
Anyone with Hasselblad questions (an area where I have pretty good knowledge) please feel free to get in touch via my forum linked below.

Over and out (for a while anyway)

Nick-T

Nick, I'm saddened but not surprised.

See you elsewhere.

Best

Keith
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2013, 11:18:44 AM »
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Come on Eric Nick was being deliberately provocative accusing me of making this whole thread an excuse to sneak in some Nikon agenda.


No Fred, I think you were the one who crossed the line here and its not the first time either.  You were the one who got loud, and lost your cool and started name calling.   And saying Nick provoked you is truly like the pot calling the kettle black.  I mean every single post of yours is provoking - and not at all in a good way.  I really do think you've ruined a lot of the good natured community here on LuLa.  There was a great vibe of sharing ideas and techniques and experiences here.  You've turned every thread into some kind of terrible consumer protection kind of thing devoid of humor and useful information content.

Look people need to be able to get their work done with what gear is available. Work arounds, techniques, skills, experiences... those are the kind of things that are useful.   Attacking the manufacturers for flaws in a beta or demo like you did here is incredibly petty IMHO and helps really no one.    You seem to be incredible thick skinned and have so far not taken anyone's hints so I can't expect much.  To use another old phrase, you haven't gotten the memo yet.  You seem to be operating on the premiss that you are helping people, but you are not.  If you continue to chase away everyone like BC and Nick, you will ruin the forum for everyone.   How does that help?

I wish you'd focus on what you can share from direct working experiences instead of these pointless and petty posts.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2013, 11:56:12 AM »
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Initial "joking" by some about WiFi didn't seem to even warrant a response.

But since he seems to be taking it very seriously... the IQ2 has already gone through the same testing that cell phones and other similar devices go through regarding radiation exposure. It passed all European and American industry and legal guidelines. In fact with the test set up to simulate a normal shooting position (viewfinder to eye) the exposure was so minimal they decided to run all qualification testing with the back off of the body and rotated to simulate you putting your cheek directly to the top/bottom of the back (where the antennas are); it still passed with flying colors.

Unless you are the kind that never uses cell phones, lives in the back country away from radio/wifi, and wears tin foil on your head - there is nothing to worry about.

Paul, there is a simple menu setting for the Wifi: Off, On, Ad-Hoc. If you aren't going to use it I'd suggest leaving it off to preserve battery life.

If I recall correctly testing requires tests to be done in any way that the device can be turned on so testing the back off the camera would be apropriate.

As far as legal, well that does not mean it's safe from a health standpoint. Alchohol, cigarettes and many other things are legal.

Anyway I think there is nothing wrong with taking caution in untested territory. While the IQ2 WiFi meats tests i doubt there are any long term tests with a WiFi ad hoc network being created half andn inch from the eyeball.

That said anyone wanting to use caution can setup the ad hoc network on the Tablet and keep the WiFi off until he or she wants to review photos.

Actually it would be a nice feature to have an option to quickly activate WiFi. Not only for cautionary purposes, but to also decide what to send to the ipad. How about an option to shoot away and then tap a buton on the screen and send the images when you step away from the camera and then have an option that turns off the WiFi when you tap the shutter release.

Similarly it woukld be nice to review images on the back and have a button that makes aproved shots available to the iPad.
There are many times when you do not want to send certain images to the crew, such as warm up images with a model.

Another thing that would be nice is an external antenna, maybe even somewhat directional.

Both of these functions would also reduce battery usage.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 12:02:51 PM by FredBGG » Logged
Jeffery Salter
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« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2013, 12:35:00 PM »
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The IQ260 Wifi will greatly enhance my workflow.  I actually do not mind if clients are engaged in the project.  On most of my projects I shoot it as the client likes, then I do it my way.  It's great when they can see all this instantly.  

Fear is not good for art.  If someone is afraid of a new technology, then they simply have the option of not using that tech.

Logic does not dictate that a company which business is photography equipment would provide photography equipment which will harm the very photographers who make there business a success.

As far as what is legal is concerned.  Let's leave that up lawyers who have gone to school for many years.  As far as wi-fi is concerned perhaps there are some scientists on the forum who have actually studied in that field that can post.

Batteries always seem to be run out at the worst times.  It's part of the being a professional that one would carry extra ones.  Or have a great 1st assistant who always seems to have remembered Grin

regards,
jeffery
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 12:44:50 PM by Jeffery Salter » Logged

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FredBGG
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« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2013, 07:23:49 PM »
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WiFi RF EMR measured at different distances.

The closest being 20cm.... so imagine where 1cm would be considering power goes down to a 1/4 every time you double the distance.

http://youtu.be/VOROXjMET0Y

It's not about being scared of new technology, it's about being prudent and informed.
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jsiva
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« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2013, 08:01:43 PM »
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OH CRAP! Huh

Should I be worried about my iPhone 5?  Should I turn Wifi off when not using a wired or bluetooth headset?  I thought posts here were getting sillier but, now I am worried it's all in my head!

BTW, go do some comparisons on radiation levels when flying on a plane vs. all the typical things people worry about like x-rays, wifi, radio waves and black cats.  Believe me, I spend 80+ hrs a month on planes and never hear the end of it from my keeper.....

http://xkcd.com/radiation/
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 08:05:47 PM by jsiva » Logged
jsiva
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« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2013, 08:11:59 PM »
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Initial "joking" by some about WiFi didn't seem to even warrant a response.

But since he seems to be taking it very seriously... the IQ2 has already gone through the same testing that cell phones and other similar devices go through regarding radiation exposure. It passed all European and American industry and legal guidelines. In fact with the test set up to simulate a normal shooting position (viewfinder to eye) the exposure was so minimal they decided to run all qualification testing with the back off of the body and rotated to simulate you putting your cheek directly to the top/bottom of the back (where the antennas are); it still passed with flying colors.

Unless you are the kind that never uses cell phones, lives in the back country away from radio/wifi, and wears tin foil on your head - there is nothing to worry about.

Paul, there is a simple menu setting for the Wifi: Off, On, Ad-Hoc. If you aren't going to use it I'd suggest leaving it off to preserve battery life.

Doug, but aren't the dangers of WIFI radiation when using the camera up close mitigated by using the iPad solution though?...so you can stay the mandatory FCC distance away and still use the camera..or wait, duh, iPad was the reason for WIFI.....again, new iPhone radiation messing with my wiring.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 08:20:38 PM by jsiva » Logged
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2013, 09:14:16 PM »
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WiFi RF EMR measured at different distances.

The closest being 20cm.... so imagine where 1cm would be considering power goes down to a 1/4 every time you double the distance.

http://youtu.be/VOROXjMET0Y

It's not about being scared of new technology, it's about being prudent and informed.

I think this video speaks for itself. "It is not recommended to sleep in the same room as a Wifi Router".

I think that falls pretty directly under the category of those who want to live in the country side away from electronics and wear a tinfoil hat. This your idea of prudent and informed?

This will be the last time I post about the "dangers" of WiFi (IQ2, iPhone, router or otherwise).
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FredBGG
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« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2013, 09:46:05 PM »
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I think this video speaks for itself. "It is not recommended to sleep in the same room as a Wifi Router".

I think that falls pretty directly under the category of those who want to live in the country side away from electronics and wear a tinfoil hat. This your idea of prudent and informed?

This will be the last time I post about the "dangers" of WiFi (IQ2, iPhone, router or otherwise).

You may try to ridicule who brings up issues if WiFi safety, but it's not as rosy as you make it out to be. Intel a WiFi manufacturer
takes it a lot more seriously than you do.

Here is a quote from the safety notice on the Intel website regarding their Intel Pro wireless adapters

Quote
Information for the User
Safety Notices
USA—FCC and FAA
The FCC with its action in ET Docket 96-8 has adopted a safety standard for human exposure to
radio frequency (RF) electromagnetic energy emitted by FCC certified equipment. The adapter
meets the Human Exposure limits found in OET Bulletin 65, supplement C, 2001, and
ANSI/IEEE C95.1, 1992. Proper operation of this radio according to the instructions found in
this manual will result in exposure substantially below the FCC’s recommended limits.
The following safety precautions should be observed:
 Do not touch or move antenna while the unit is transmitting or receiving.
 Do not hold any component containing the radio such that the antenna is very close or
touching any exposed parts of the body, especially the face or eyes, while transmitting.

 Do not operate the radio or attempt to transmit data unless the antenna is connected;
this behavior may cause damage to the radio.
 Use in specific environments:
 The use of wireless devices in hazardous locations is limited by the constraints
posed by the safety directors of such environments.
 The use of wireless devices on airplanes is governed by the Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA).
 The use of wireless devices in hospitals is restricted to the limits set forth by each
hospital.
Antenna Use
 In order to comply with FCC RF exposure limits, low gain integrated antennas should be
located at a minimum distance of 20 cm (8 inches) or more from the body of all persons.

 High-gain, wall-mount, or mast-mount antennas are designed to be professionally
installed and should be located at a minimum distance of 30 cm (12 inches) or more from
the body of all persons. Please contact your professional installer, VAR, or antenna
manufacturer for proper installation requirements.

Antenna Warnings
Warning: To comply with the FCC and ANSI C95.1 RF exposure limits, it is recommended
that for the adapter installed in a desktop or portable computer, the antenna for this adapter to
be installed so as to provide a separation distance of at least 20 cm (8 inches) from all persons.
It is recommended that the user limit exposure time if the antenna is positioned closer than 20
cm (8 inches).



Full document here:
http://download.intel.com/support/wireless/wlan/5300_5100/sb/regstatements.pdf

« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 09:54:22 PM by FredBGG » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2013, 09:53:21 PM »
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Initial "joking" by some about WiFi didn't seem to even warrant a response.

But since he seems to be taking it very seriously... the IQ2 has already gone through the same testing that cell phones and other similar devices go through regarding radiation exposure. It passed all European and American industry and legal guidelines. In fact with the test set up to simulate a normal shooting position (viewfinder to eye) the exposure was so minimal they decided to run all qualification testing with the back off of the body and rotated to simulate you putting your cheek directly to the top/bottom of the back (where the antennas are); it still passed with flying colors.

Unless you are the kind that never uses cell phones, lives in the back country away from radio/wifi, and wears tin foil on your head - there is nothing to worry about.


Interesting that you state that they ran tests with the antenna touching the cheeks when these are the FCC guidelines and recommendations of Intel in the above posting.
It will be interesting to see what will be stated in the Safety Notice of the shipping product.



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« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2013, 10:39:22 PM »
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....
It will be interesting to see what will be stated in the Safety Notice of the shipping product.


Congratulations, Fred!  When you get your new IQ260/IQ280, let us all know what the "Safety Notice" (if any) says.   Roll Eyes
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