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Author Topic: How good is focus-stacking in Focus?  (Read 4191 times)
henrikfoto
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« on: April 24, 2013, 02:27:22 PM »
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Have anyone here tried focus-stacking in Hasselblad focus with a Hasselblad camera?
Can the focus be changed from the software without touching the camera?


Henrik
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Dustbak
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2013, 04:03:00 PM »
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Yes, you can change focus from within Phocus. You can change focus in 3 different kind of steps, ranging from really small, 'normal' and larger.
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2013, 04:23:57 PM »
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Thank you! That was what I hoped for. Would that be possible also with a H4x and a Phase one back?
(or does it have to be Hasselblad all the way through ?)

Or maybe it can control a canon or nikon?
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Dustbak
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2013, 02:26:55 AM »
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I don't think you would be using Phocus with a Phase back, my guess is that it would require an all Hasselblad solution. Nope, it cannot control a Nikon or Canon. Another very good solution for focus stacking, which is what I use despite the fact I use HB with Phocus, is to use a Cognysis Stackshot together with Helicon Focus. With this you can use focus stacking with anything you like and have it even totally automated with most Nikons and Canons.
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2013, 04:00:26 AM »
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Another very good solution for focus stacking, which is what I use despite the fact I use HB with Phocus, is to use a Cognysis Stackshot together with Helicon Focus. With this you can use focus stacking with anything you like and have it even totally automated with most Nikons and Canons.

Hi,

I agree. It's not a cheap solution due to the up-front investment, but it's a huge time saver in practice, especially on close-up and macro work. I've done Focus stacks of 100+ images (macros at 5:1 magnification), and it's a joy to set start and end points, set a step increment, activate, and walk away to do other useful things as the shooting is done fully automatically, without missing a beat.

There is probably a bit more manual work required with other camera platforms, but the reduced risk of missing a shot also saves a lot of time.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 04:16:04 AM by BartvanderWolf » Logged
Douglas Fairbank
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2013, 04:40:39 AM »
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I found that focus stacking in Phocus was very good. Both the ability to control the focus from the software and exporting the frames as 'layers PSD' for later processing in Photoshop made it a good experience.

I co-wrote an article about this with Nikola Borissov in the November 2012 issue of the Hasselblad Bulletin tips and tricks section, you can see it on the Hasselblad website Bulletin section.

I did talk to the factory about finding a way to include macros in the Phocus software to control things like focus stacking, time lapse etc. Anything is possible of course but it will depend on priorities and money.

The whole point of Phocus is to get the very best out of the Hasselblad image, Lightroom is great with some superb work flow and cataloguing features but it's not free and you will get a better image with Phocus.

I do wonder how good Phocus could become if it was a product that was sold and it had more money to develop it. It is pretty good now and I wish they could make a light version to run on lower spec machines the way that Flexcolor does.

Perhaps this should have a thread of it's own.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 05:06:45 AM by Douglas Fairbank » Logged

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henrikfoto
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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2013, 06:01:45 AM »
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Thanks for help everybody!

I have tried Cognysis Stackshot together with Helicon Focus with my DF.

It is good but I think it is a bit tiny and with too little stability with a large heavy camera.
I also find that in "deep" stacks the software has some problems to mach all the lines correctly.


Henrik
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Esben
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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2013, 12:37:13 PM »
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A quick question to those who’re using the StackShot for products.  Wouldn't it create a problem that the camera is moving closer to the object? Normally, if the lens is 3-5” away from the front of a reflective product like a watch, moving the camera 1” closer would change the perspective as well as all the reflections.

In the video on the StackShot website the object is an ant and the camera is positioned significantly further away while using a tele lens.

E
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Dustbak
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2013, 12:49:40 PM »
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Well, lets start by saying everything is a compromise in some way. Focus stacking by moving the focus ring is too, since most lenses have at least some breathing creating similar problems as using a camera on rails. I mostly use the stackshot on rings and bracelets. Obviously the rings are smaller than a watch. These are no problem stacking for Helicon focus. Bracelets are not a problem in most cases but occassionally it has a bit of problem in which case you need to paint parts in by hand in Helicon Focus. It is only occassionally not very often.

BTW, I find the stackshot rails sturdy enough for the H system. I did put a RRS clamp on top of the rails (I took off what was on top of it initially). The stackshot itself is attached to a heavy Cambo. No problem with using a Rollei X-Act2 on it either. I never did put anything heavier on it.
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2013, 01:30:38 PM »
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A quick question to those who’re using the StackShot for products.  Wouldn't it create a problem that the camera is moving closer to the object? Normally, if the lens is 3-5” away from the front of a reflective product like a watch, moving the camera 1” closer would change the perspective as well as all the reflections.

In the video on the StackShot website the object is an ant and the camera is positioned significantly further away while using a tele lens.

E



I have seen this problems often in deep stackings. Thats why I prefer to do stacking with a good APO lens
without moving the camera. This causes a lot less problems with misallignment. The only problem is that most
cameras needs to be touched to refocus which can cause small movements to the setup.

Thats why I am interested in a Hasselblad using Focus software and moving focus in same size steps.

Henrik
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2013, 01:36:50 PM »
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Well, lets start by saying everything is a compromise in some way. Focus stacking by moving the focus ring is too, since most lenses have at least some breathing creating similar problems as using a camera on rails. I mostly use the stackshot on rings and bracelets. Obviously the rings are smaller than a watch. These are no problem stacking for Helicon focus. Bracelets are not a problem in most cases but occassionally it has a bit of problem in which case you need to paint parts in by hand in Helicon Focus. It is only occassionally not very often.

BTW, I find the stackshot rails sturdy enough for the H system. I did put a RRS clamp on top of the rails (I took off what was on top of it initially). The stackshot itself is attached to a heavy Cambo. No problem with using a Rollei X-Act2 on it either. I never did put anything heavier on it.



Thats a good idea! I will try to remove the original base of the rail to get the camera closer to the rail without the vibrating platform.

Henrik
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2013, 01:47:03 PM »
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Just an idea:
What about stacking using a LF camera with the rail just attached to the front standard and
the bach standard in fixed position. That should give a minimum of focus shift and using the
best lenses on the market this should be good?

Is it hard to make?
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Esben
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2013, 02:07:12 PM »
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Hi Dustbak
I'm using the Helicon Focus software in all my images and I'm shooting with the Hasselblad H and Leaf backs.
I think I've sometimes stacked up to 80 or 100 16bit TIFFs and the outcome has been perfect.  One thing that I'd like to automate in that process would be the shooting of the 100 frames   Smiley

I’ve often been thinking about the focus adjuster in Phocus and if the settings/motor is fine enough to work with let’s say 100 frames shooting a watch starting from a distance of 10cm from the lens, and ending around 12-13cm from the lens?   It would also relief me from standing next to the camera and avoid any shakes of the object. I often do 2 run partly because of shakes and also because my flashes are dipping I find that Helicon has an easier time handling mis-alinements then it has with darker frames.

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Esben
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2013, 02:08:20 PM »
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I would attach the Stackrail on the back standard?
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Esben
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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2013, 02:12:57 PM »
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I have seen this problems often in deep stackings. Thats why I prefer to do stacking with a good APO lens
without moving the camera. This causes a lot less problems with misallignment. The only problem is that most
cameras needs to be touched to refocus which can cause small movements to the setup.

Thats why I am interested in a Hasselblad using Focus software and moving focus in same size steps.

Henrik


This is why I'm shooting with the Hasselblad. Focusing a DSLR compared to a large format camera is much more exact in this regard.

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Dustbak
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« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2013, 02:19:17 PM »
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Hi Dustbak
I'm using the Helicon Focus software in all my images and I'm shooting with the Hasselblad H and Leaf backs.
I think I've sometimes stacked up to 80 or 100 16bit TIFFs and the outcome has been perfect.  One thing that I'd like to automate in that process would be the shooting of the 100 frames   Smiley


Automating shooting 100 frames is where the stackshot comes in. You define the starting point, the endpoint on the rails and the number of images. Press start and the stackshot goes ahead with taking the images. Use the automated export in Leaf Capture (the hot folder, it has been a while since I used Leaf Capture) and you have 100 images to put into Helicon Focus Smiley
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2013, 02:29:44 PM »
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Hi Esben!

What Hasselblad lenses do you use for these stacks?
And how do you ajust all those steps without a rail or control from the software?

Henrik
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Esben
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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2013, 04:21:47 PM »
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Hi Henrik

I most often use the HC 120 macro.
60-80 frames most often equals a 8cm throw on the 120 macro. I do it by hand, moving the lens ring the smallest distance possible for each frame.

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henrikfoto
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« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2013, 02:06:06 AM »
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Hi Henrik

I most often use the HC 120 macro.
60-80 frames most often equals a 8cm throw on the 120 macro. I do it by hand, moving the lens ring the smallest distance possible for each frame.

E


Hi Esben!

Do you focus using live view on the back or through the viewfinder?

Henrik
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Esben
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« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2013, 09:45:43 AM »
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Henrik,
I mark off with tape on the lens, start and stop points as when pulling focus for motion



Dustbak,
Do you know, or would you have the possibility to test if the focus adjuster in Phocus is fine enough to shoot around 80 frames of a watch, with focus starting from around 10cm from the lens, and ending around 12-13cm from the lens?
Does the focus tool work when using a space-adaptor?


E

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