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Author Topic: D800 & Multiple Mics w/o External Sound Recorder  (Read 7757 times)
RFPhotography
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« on: April 30, 2013, 01:43:31 PM »
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Would it be possible to use a 2 into 1, 3.5mm adapter to connect 2 microphones to a D800? 

Thanks.
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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2013, 01:53:08 PM »
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Yes, in theory - but...

Stereo mini jacks are the seed of the Devil and notoriously unreliable - it strikes me that you are doubling the chance of failure.

Also remember that sound levels are accumulative, so that you will need to adjust the output of each microphone to approximately half of its normal level to avoid over-modulating the recording.
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2013, 02:05:54 PM »
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Thanks, Chris.  The second issue isn't a huge concern.  The first issue, with the mini-jacks is more important and the more concerning of the two.  Best would be an external video/sound recorder with multiple sound inputs.  Then an external sound recorder and sync audio up in post.  Those may not be possible though so have to think of other options.
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Sareesh Sudhakaran
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2013, 10:48:47 PM »
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I've tried something like this five years ago, but on a laptop.  Two XLRs, battery-powered adapted to 3.5mm and then combined into one 3.5mm going into the microphone jack of a laptop. That test didn't last long.

The simpler way is to find a field mixer ($100 to $1,000) with dual or quad channels and then mix on the go. Feed the signal (mic level) into the D800. The Sound Devices MixPre-D would be ideal, but it's about $900.
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2013, 02:12:29 AM »
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Would it be possible to use a 2 into 1, 3.5mm adapter to connect 2 microphones to a D800? 

Thanks.

If your two mics are used for the same person/dialog chris is right it's accumulative and will double up.

But what is the purpose of two microphones?  If you have two subjects, then for some cameras (I know nothing of the d800 sound) something like this beachtech will split the signal to two channels.
http://www.markertek.com/Audio-Equipment/Camcorder-XLR-Adapters/Beachtek-Inc/DXA-2T.xhtml

Still you are much better off running a separate sound recorder slating the scene for sync and running a couple of on camera microphones like a Rode for scratch.

We were doing a three camera shoot with the sound tech's mixer running into the RED A camera and on the RED b and c cams had Rode's for scratch.  

This usually doesn't happen but when syncing the sound it was virtually impossible to tell the Rode scratch from the techs mixer.  Once again this usually doesn't happen and also the beauty of the RED 1's there are 4 sound channels.

BTW:  Chris is right minijacks are from hell.  You can breath on the damn things and they'll pop.   The best solution is to go to a hardwired box like the beachtech and buying a roll of very sticky duct tape to hold the mini jacks in place.  Also sound monitor every bit as out of nowhere you can get a snap, crackle and pop.

IMO

BC

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RFPhotography
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2013, 06:17:33 AM »
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The two mics would be for an interview. 
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2013, 07:03:33 AM »
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You could get a zoom h1, very cheap and
Audio is same quality as the h4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fn6-WWJFeA
Plug
A lavalier (the interviewd person carry the
Zoom behind at belt level.
Got another mike in your cam like a rhode,
And you're good to go on the cheap.

Or even got 2 zoom h1, One on the talent with lavalier,
One on your cam shoe Or tripod that takes the
Surrounding, and a third mike plugged on your cam.
It's as easy to sync 2 sources Or 20.
The only thing is that you'll have to launch the ext
Mikes previously to the take, and do so to stop recording
Because there aren't electricaly connected
With your cam.


If you got a mike plugged in cam, you don't
Even need a slate to sync in post, nor any
Third-party app. But using
A slate is always reliable 100% and easy.

Ps: avoid those tablets gadgets as slates.
A simple good old manual clapperboard.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 10:37:21 AM by fredjeang2 » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2013, 07:34:43 AM »
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Im not sure if this helps but here is my journey with sound..

1) Rode vid mic - actually OK close to the cam.

2) Tascam DR100 - unlike the H4n it feeds into the cam

The Tascam was unreliable with errors on start up - binned it after one job

3) Bought Sound Devices 702 recorder - amazing sound reliablility and pro build for the price of an 80-200

Use this and on camera mic for scratch sound - no connections into the camera - safer than a scratch mic

4) .. bought a video camera! FS100 with XLR onboard!

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2013, 10:51:27 AM »
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Thanks, Fred and Sam.

Sam, the video camera ain't happening. :-)

I do have a Rode.  I need two mics, one for the interviewer and one for the interviewee.  Really don't need ambient sound as the discussions will be in a closed room.  I'm thinking an external recorder with 2 inputs for 2 lavs may do the trick.

Fred, a simple clap works too.
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2013, 11:05:30 AM »
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Fred, a simple clap works too.

Absolutly.

However, the slate has some advantages like doing tail slate. We often use tail slate and it's very easy to identify in post as the slate is upsidedown.

Also, the clap waveform is more precise. Sometimes a perfect sync can be in between 2 frames.

But yeah, any precise clap (even with a ruler on a table) would work fine.
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2013, 11:17:30 AM »
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Thanks, Fred and Sam.

Sam, the video camera ain't happening. :-)

I do have a Rode.  I need two mics, one for the interviewer and one for the interviewee.  Really don't need ambient sound as the discussions will be in a closed room.  I'm thinking an external recorder with 2 inputs for 2 lavs may do the trick.

Fred, a simple clap works too.

If you get lavs there are different adhesive attachments that are different colors (like skin colored) and cushion the lav front and back so you don't pick up the noise of a shirt or collar scraping on the lav.

In regards to a hand clap, we've done it, but I think it's a bad habit as it adds time in post searching for the exact cut.  A clapboard will allow the assistant to say scene 1 take 3, (or whatever) which makes workflow a lot faster.

And as Fred says, stay away from the ipad clapboard.  They're a real pain.

IMO

BC

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fredjeang2
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2013, 11:30:02 AM »
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Great imput James.

Nothing more annoying to have to identify a hand clap..." heuu, wich bloody scene it was?"
as a lot of footage looks similar in preview.

Hey guys, I'm looking for a tiny mini traditional clapperboard. Does someone know where I can find that?
Mine is a standart but find it too big to bring it everywhere.
I'd like something that could fit in a little bag. Nothing in Madrid nor e-bay I could find.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2013, 11:32:34 AM »
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Sam, the video camera ain't happening. :-)

Then I would suggest using the camera with no mic for scratch

no mic means you will get sound - with a rode on the camrea its battery could die or the 1/4 go wonky - no sound on the cam can be very bad!

And add a two channel recorder.

Not having an assistant my synch set up is like this..

"twenty one.. clap"

I generate the number using a tally counter..
like..
http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/350546613366?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=63

S


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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2013, 11:33:51 AM »
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..tiny mini traditional clapperboard. Does someone know where I can find that?


as i just quoted - I love a tally counter - obviously sound only

http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/350546613366?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=63
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2013, 01:09:27 PM »
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There won't be any assistant.  It'll be the interviewer (me) and the person being interviewed.  There shouldn't be a need for multiple takes.  I'll be off camera with only my voice being heard asking questions and prompting for more elaboration if needed. 

Sam, you're just talking about using the built-in mic on the camera for ambient, correct?
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2013, 04:01:40 PM »
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Not for ambient - just scratch - to synch sound form a recorder - so no part in the final mix..
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2013, 05:41:15 PM »
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OK, I understand.
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« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2013, 10:29:37 PM »
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Hey guys, I'm looking for a tiny mini traditional clapperboard. Does someone know where I can find that?
Mine is a standart but find it too big to bring it everywhere.
I'd like something that could fit in a little bag. Nothing in Madrid nor e-bay I could find.

Before settling on FCPX (using audio to sync for multicam),  I settled on a small metal toy "clicker"; very distinctive sound, easy to pick up even from a distance.

++1 Zoom H4n, gives you the most options - for interviews a pair of lavalier mics are ideal, I really like Shure SM93's (around $140/US) for wired applications, nice presence and being an omni, placement isn't terribly critical.
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« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2013, 02:34:58 AM »
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++1 Zoom H4n,

From a professional stand point - Im not a fan of the H4n

Seen loads of battery swapping at bad moments, I think this is when running phantom powered mics

My Sound Devices 702 can be run on bigger sony camcorder batts or powered by 12v (Vlocks) or the mains

Not to mention actual sound quality

The cost? About the same as a lens - we all have 10 lenses yet think one sound recorder at that price level is bad news!

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
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