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Author Topic: Going to a 5 hour Phase One IQ 2xx presentation tonight.  (Read 2693 times)
Chris Barrett
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« on: May 01, 2013, 12:43:49 PM »
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Anybody got burning questions they want me to fire off?
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lance_schad
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2013, 01:04:33 PM »
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If anyone forum members are in the Washington DC area , we are hosting a similar event on May 3.


Phase One Photography World Tour: DC

We are excited to announce that the Photography World Tour is coming to DC! Two renowned photographers, Douglas Sonders and Jeffrey Totaro, will share their stories and provide insight on how they have enhanced their photographic creativity and grown their business.

Ulf Liljegren, Worldwide Technical Support Manager from Phase One HQ in Denmark, will also be presenting. He will be providing further details about the Phase One IQ2 series digital backs and tips on how to get great results with Capture One Pro 7.

Also take this opportunity to experience the new Phase One IQ2 backs first-hand and get the chance to meet, speak and network with the Phase One team, Lance Schad and Doug Peterson from Digital Transitions, Profoto, Production Paradise and other photographers at the event. Also take this opportunity to see Arca-Swiss and Cambo technical solutions.

We will also have the IQ260 Achromatic as well.

Additional Details and Schedule of Events Here

Lance
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JoeKitchen
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2013, 01:06:36 PM »
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I would be curious to hear the downsides of shooting in long exposure mode as it pertains to IQ.  Actually, it would be nice to see an example of an interior image (nothing out of the ordinary in terms of exposure length, 2 seconds would be nice) shot at base ISO and then in long exposure mode at ISO 140.  

I am assuming that the noise would increase and DR would decrease, but by how much?  Would it be enough to warrant switching it back and forth depending on the shot?  

Amend: an interior shot that was well lit with continuous lighting (since that would not require the lights to be adjusted when changing ISO). 
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 01:25:22 PM by JoeKitchen » Logged

Joe Kitchen
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Chris Barrett
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2013, 02:22:46 PM »
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I don't quite follow you, Joe.  I'm typically exposing interiors at 1-3 seconds on my P65+.  I wouldn't enable LongExp Mode for anything in that range.  Are you wondering about the quality difference with the consideration of just always leaving LongExp enabled?
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JoeKitchen
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2013, 02:45:45 PM »
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Yes, that is what I mean.  If it was left on always, would that greatly effect IQ for "shorter" exposures?

I just find it interesting that they made it an option at a higher ISO, whereas the P45+ has long exposure capabilities at any ISO.  
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 02:47:58 PM by JoeKitchen » Logged

Joe Kitchen
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Paul2660
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2013, 05:46:07 PM »
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The P45+ I had was pretty much optimized for long exposures at iso 50 only.  If you went any higher, you started to see serious noise.  Mine was very clean at 50 for 1 hour as long as I stayed in the 65 degree F outside temp range.  If I tried it in any higher ambient temp, the noise/was extreme.  I was always amazed at the cut off and quality of image. 

I tried a few 15 and 30 minute exposures at iso 100 but they also had some pretty serious noise. 

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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Grischa Rueschendorf
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2013, 06:23:56 PM »
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Chris,
I would be interested to hear your opinion on

 -how well the newly designed 260 chip plays with tech cameras, I.e. does the new design of the pixel wells affect color cast issues when shifting as we've seen with the arrival of the 180?
I can't find any info on that.

- noise: is a 140 ISA file in long exposure mode on the IQ260 just as clean as a 50 ISO on the IQ160 or 35 ISO on the IQ180?

- Wifi: how stable are ad hoc connections in location shoot environments with " competing" signals s.a. Office buildings where you typically gets countless wifi signals

- lastly is the iPad wifi viewing experience a replacement for tethered laptop shoots in non studio location shooting s.a. your own work?

Thx in advance
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JoeKitchen
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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2013, 08:02:18 PM »
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The P45+ I had was pretty much optimized for long exposures at iso 50 only.  If you went any higher, you started to see serious noise.  Mine was very clean at 50 for 1 hour as long as I stayed in the 65 degree F outside temp range.  If I tried it in any higher ambient temp, the noise/was extreme.  I was always amazed at the cut off and quality of image. 

I tried a few 15 and 30 minute exposures at iso 100 but they also had some pretty serious noise. 

Paul Caldwell


Yes, all true, I was just pointing out the higher ISO for the long exposure mode.  It is odd to me that they would program the long exposure to be ISO 140 instead of base ISO (the best IQ setting). 
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Joe Kitchen
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"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
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george2787
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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2013, 08:29:08 PM »
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Yep, how many clicks can we expect shooting tethered by wifi in a studio/fashion enviroment and how fast do images pop in the screen after fired with one single shot an lets say 20 images in 25-30 seconds.

Thanks!  Grin
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Paul2660
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2013, 09:34:31 PM »
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Joe:

I agree, it does seem strange on the long exposures starting at iso 140.  I am not that interested in 30 min to 1 hour, but would like some 2 to 5 min shots.

Chris:

What I would like to see is a comparison of a P65 or IQ160 against a 260, in normal exposures.  50, 100, 200 and 400.  I am hoping that for example a the base of 50, there will be more room in the shadows.

At 200 and 400 on the IQ260, I am wondering the differences between the enhanced mode and normal.  Is there a noticeable trade off, i.e. less noise, but also less detail between iso 200 normal mode and iso 200 in the enhanced or long exposure mode.  Same with 400.   

Does the 260 zoom to 100% any faster, display the files faster etc.?  My 160 seems a bit slow here and tends to bog down at times. 

Colors, since the 260 is a new chip, I am still curious on how the two chips represent the same color.  I love the look of the IQ160 files. 

Tech camera shifts also interest me.  I have not seen any examples yet. 

Does the 260 chip have the same 8 segment look?  curious due to possible centerfold line issues.

If I understand it correctly, the 260 will have 3 modes, base, the enhanced mode starting at iso140, then sensor plus.  Curious what the recommendations are for exposures at iso 400 and higher.

Sincerely
Paul Caldwell


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Paul Caldwell
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FredBGG
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« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2013, 09:39:41 PM »
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Yep, how many clicks can we expect shooting tethered by wifi in a studio/fashion enviroment and how fast do images pop in the screen after fired with one single shot an lets say 20 images in 25-30 seconds.

Thanks!  Grin

Keep in mind this is not the same as tethering to a PC where RAW images are transferred. Only screen res images are sent. Speeds will be different based on what screen res the ipad os at. Retina will be slower
that non retina ipads.

Another thing to keep in mind is what the speed will be like where there are other active wireless networks
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Chris Barrett
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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2013, 08:40:06 AM »
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I can't yet speak to comparisons in image quality.  I do plan on doing an extensive review and video on the unit when I get my hands on it.  I ordered my trade-in the morning the IQ2's were announced and have been told that backs should begin shipping end of this month.

We did look a lot at the WiFi iPad features last night and I was quite impressed.  The presentation was held in a studio in Chicago's fairly congested near west side.  I would imagine that we were in as dense a WiFi area as any of my shoots might take place in.  I've used Capture Pilot quite often while shooting tethered and the IQ2's straight to iPad AdHoc mode actually felt more responsive than having the iPad served from a computer.  Images popped up quickly, 100% previews rendered reasonably fast (2-3 seconds) and wireless camera control of the 645 DF+ was instantaneous.  Overall, the workflow was as fast as shooting straight to computer (though all images remain on the CF cards).

I can definitely imagine the iPad replacing my laptop on commercial shoots and finally ditching the tether.  This is a pretty big deal for me.  It's going to allow me to move faster on exteriors, travel lighter and generally work less encumbered.

The long exposure is a nice-to-have option, but it's really the iPad connectivity that was the selling point for me and having seen it live, I'm quite pleased with the evolution.

To Be Continued...
CB
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george2787
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2013, 09:46:26 AM »
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I know there are many variables, so i expect a big range, but seriously... I'm curious to know... 200 shots worst case scenario? 600 best or it is too much?
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2013, 10:01:53 AM »
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Yep, how many clicks can we expect shooting tethered by wifi in a studio/fashion enviroment and how fast do images pop in the screen after fired with one single shot an lets say 20 images in 25-30 seconds.

Final performance would be better judged off the final shipping version of the hardware and software given that what we have now to report on is beta software and prototype hardware/firmware.

However, the interesting part of extended/fast shooting with the IQ2 wireless is that it's not transferring the full file, so reviewing the last image of a sequence can be quite fast.

Say you shoot 20 images in quick succession.
- If shooting tethered by FW800/USB3 the back must transfer images 1-19 before transferring image 20.
- If shooting with wireless review the 20th shot is available as soon as it's captured. The thumbnail transfers almost immediately, and when you tap on the preview for that image only will be drawn from the IQ2, and when you zoom only that part of the image transfers, rendered by the IQ2 itself.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2013, 10:10:25 AM »
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Yes, all true, I was just pointing out the higher ISO for the long exposure mode.  It is odd to me that they would program the long exposure to be ISO 140 instead of base ISO (the best IQ setting). 

This is explained in my article on the Phase One IQ260 sensor.

Base ISO (50) is spec'd for use up to 2 minutes.

There will be some cross-over point at which it's better to use the long-exposure mode at ISO140 rather than push the limit of the ISO50 base mode. That point might be 30 seconds, or 60 seconds, or 90 seconds; it won't be clear until the final shipping version rather than prototype hardware, beta firmware, and preliminary software support.

Based on testing the prototype ISO140 long exposure mode on an IQ260 looks as good or better than ISO50 on a P45+. It does not have the reserve shadow dynamic range of ISO50 on an IQ160 or ISO35 on an IQ280. It feels similar to ISO100 on an IQ160.

All in all a great set of options: ISO50 up to 2 min, ISO140 up to 1 hour, Sensor+ for up to ISO3200 and up to 1.4 fps, Dalsa color. This will be a very versatile back.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 10:15:57 AM »
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-how well the newly designed 260 chip plays with tech cameras, I.e. does the new design of the pixel wells affect color cast issues when shifting as we've seen with the arrival of the 180?

Same as the 160. Not like the 180.

- Wifi: how stable are ad hoc connections in location shoot environments with " competing" signals s.a. Office buildings where you typically gets countless wifi signals

The prototype hardware/firmware does not provide the ability to change wireless channels. Such a feature is planned for the final shipping version. Some interface to provide the user a quick review of the level of interference on each channel is also planned. It's not uncommon (from my testing the last few weeks) for there to be dozens of wifi signals floating around, and still have a channel (or several) with no meaningful interference. That would allow you to pick up the back in a new location, push a few buttons, and select the wireless channel with the least interference.

Note also that the IQ2 has a dual-band radio for both 2.4ghz and 5.0ghz. While the 2.4ghz spectrum is quite congested in most dense urban environments (from both wifi and other devices that operate on the same frequency) the 5.0ghz spectrum is, in my experience in NYC the last several weeks, far more open. I will wait for the final shipping version to verify my findings, but I suspect I'll be recommending all our clients to use the 5ghz band by default.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 10:17:53 AM by Doug Peterson » Logged

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Don Libby
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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2013, 10:58:59 AM »
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It's always refreshing to hear from folks who actually have used the equipment.
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Kevin Gallagher
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2013, 12:45:13 PM »
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It's always refreshing to hear from folks who actually have used the equipment.

 +1
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FredBGG
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« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2013, 03:26:04 PM »
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Same as the 160. Not like the 180.

The prototype hardware/firmware does not provide the ability to change wireless channels. Such a feature is planned for the final shipping version. Some interface to provide the user a quick review of the level of interference on each channel is also planned. It's not uncommon (from my testing the last few weeks) for there to be dozens of wifi signals floating around, and still have a channel (or several) with no meaningful interference. That would allow you to pick up the back in a new location, push a few buttons, and select the wireless channel with the least interference.

Note also that the IQ2 has a dual-band radio for both 2.4ghz and 5.0ghz. While the 2.4ghz spectrum is quite congested in most dense urban environments (from both wifi and other devices that operate on the same frequency) the 5.0ghz spectrum is, in my experience in NYC the last several weeks, far more open. I will wait for the final shipping version to verify my findings, but I suspect I'll be recommending all our clients to use the 5ghz band by default.

There is also software you can use on the router end to find the least congested channels. Can make quite a difference.

Here is a very good free program:
http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider/

Channel traffic and interference are two different things. Interference will most likely be the same on different channels. but 5 ghz vs 2.5 is likely to have different levels of interference.

Finding a clear clean channel is a smart move for both speed and exposure. Fewer unsuccesfull packets will mean less exposure.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 03:27:41 PM by FredBGG » Logged
lkuhlmann
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« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2013, 06:44:28 PM »
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In case you didn't go to any of the seminars here are IQ260 early samples.

Here is a comparison test between a P45+ @ ISO 50 and IQ260 @ ISO 140 both exposed for 30 minutes.

Overview
Closeup 1
Closeup 2

Note this is from a prototype, and does not reflect all the qualities of the final version, but the quality of IQ260 easily exceeds that of the P45+.

-Lionel
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