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Author Topic: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?  (Read 18712 times)
Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2013, 07:30:22 PM »
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I agree with Guy and disagree with Guy. His first post is spot on. If you want to reduce weight, the Fuji XE-1 is an amazing camera and likely my next photographic purchase. Guy's last post is correct too, sort of. You can buy a D800e with a small wide angle lens and an 85/1.8 and have pretty flexible kit that weighs about 6 lb. or so, but realistically that probably isn't what you are going to do. If you go with the Fuji, you can have a few lenses and still be light and portable. Add a couple zooms to the Nikon kit and you are pretty close in weight to the Hassy.

The D800e is a great way to go if you are trying to buy quality on a budget, but since you already have the Hassy, add a kit that will be truly light and portable. If you want to shoot with long lenses, you can't beat a DSLR, but for anything else there are better options. The combination of MF and a small mirrorless camera is tough to beat.

I agree and the real issue with getting a Nikon and guilty as hell is one or two lenses just is a tease. Lol

It's more like how many you can stuff in your bag. I'm a pig when it comes to glass and have a bunch . Why I like the Fuji even though you may buy 3 or 4 lenses it still fits in a small Domke bag. Why I said total system weight by the time you get the Nikon mount glass you want your right back to a MF kit in bulk and weight give or take some here. Also the D800e really wants you to have good glass which usually means some fast heavy primes. Like I said its my work kit so weight and bulk means little to me but just to get out for the weekend or something like that the Fuji is hard to beat plus you can mount Leica M lenses on it with adapters and I have a Nikon adapter and use some Nikon mounts sometimes. Now both manual focus and stop down mode but still fun. It really depends on how desperate you are to trim bulk and weight. The compacts do it in a big way. Nikon not so much but still a good choice if your not a lens whore like me. LOL
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 07:32:39 PM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

FredBGG
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« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2013, 07:30:42 PM »
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Hi Jack.

I helped a friend make some gear choices. He too suffered from limited mobility, he was hit by s speeding car while standing next to his motorcycle on the sidewalk.
He damaged both knees badly and walking or carrying weights is difficult.
He too had a passion for high IQ. Had to go from 4x5 to 35mm.
I advised his to get zooms as it would make it far easier for him to compose his shots better as moving forward and backwards would be much more work
for him.
I hope your mobility isn't that bad, but something to consider.

On the wide angle side the Nikon 14-24mm is a very good zoom.
In the midrange the 24-70mm 2.8 is very good, but a bit heavy.
I recently bought a 24-85mm and it is remarkably good for the price and size. Corners are not "state of the art", but the overall look of the lens
is much better then I expected. Only 465 g
The 70-200 f4 is great and quite light 860g

I also think that a Leica and a couple of lenses would be a very good choice.
Lighter and sits nicer on the body. Lenses are really nice and small. Your wife will appreciate the small size. However no zooms.
I think you would be far better off with the new color version rather than the monochrome.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 07:56:23 PM by FredBGG » Logged
Lust4Life
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« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2013, 09:22:53 PM »
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Fred - would you define for me which model Leica you are thinking of?

Thanks,
Jack
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 04:28:29 AM by Lust4Life » Logged

mtomalty
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« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2013, 12:17:53 AM »
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Jack,
What is the endgame with your photography?
Are you printing your selects large? Or web galleries,slideshows,etc?

After looking at your website,I think the best bang for your buck when considering size,weight,
and portability would be an M9 with 21 3.4 asph,28 2.8asph,and 50 2.0 Summicron
This kit would cover most of what I see on your website and the 4 pieces combined would
not weigh much more than your Hass 28 alone.
Sharpness is excellent and dynamic range is probably a shade less than you're accustomed
to with medium format but I don't think you would be disappointed.
The new 'M' would probably offer a little more dynamic range but if you are not on a list you would
likely not find one at a dealer for 12-15 months.

D800/D800e would trump the M9 for dynamic range and resolution but once you add 2-3 of the
select lenses that take advantage of the cameras potential you are not far away from your
Hasselblads bulk and weight.

Mark
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Lust4Life
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« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2013, 05:34:20 AM »
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Mark,

I'm now wanting to share more of my work in a printed manner.
Have printed in the past on the Epson 4800 but only as give aways to family, friends and my personal enjoyment.
Plan is to approach a few galleries over the next two months and see what response I get.

See max print size being what ever a Canon/Epson printer at 24" can handle.

Jack
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2013, 05:48:38 AM »
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Hi,

Do you want to leave the tripod behind? If not, a tecnical camera with just a wide anngle may be an interesting option?

The new Leica M seems to be worth looking into.

Full frame DSLRs and zooms tend to be bulky, perhaps little gain over the blad regarding weight.

Sony NEX, Fuji-X, 4/3 may be worth considering, too.

Best regards
Erik
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Lust4Life
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« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2013, 06:02:06 AM »
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Eric,

Tripod I have is very light and my wife can handle that easily.
She is in great shape and can handle a tripod, my light meter and a lens or two.

I used to have the Cambo with several lenses - must admit I didn't care much for it.  Too much to fiddle with.

I'm thinking I'd carry a camera body with a prime wide angle on it - my norm - and wife can handle one short tele prime lens, light meter and tripod.

My eye gravitates to an image that has high dmax and smooth gradations (love the work of Brett Weston and Cole Thompson). Look of images I like is with a lot of contrast BUT with details in the shadows and highlight.  Need lots of dmax to accomplish that or mild use of HDR - HDR with a tech camera is no fun as far as I'm concerned.
 
Jack
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Ken R
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« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2013, 10:32:18 AM »
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Eric,

Tripod I have is very light and my wife can handle that easily.
She is in great shape and can handle a tripod, my light meter and a lens or two.

I used to have the Cambo with several lenses - must admit I didn't care much for it.  Too much to fiddle with.

I'm thinking I'd carry a camera body with a prime wide angle on it - my norm - and wife can handle one short tele prime lens, light meter and tripod.

My eye gravitates to an image that has high dmax and smooth gradations (love the work of Brett Weston and Cole Thompson). Look of images I like is with a lot of contrast BUT with details in the shadows and highlight.  Need lots of dmax to accomplish that or mild use of HDR - HDR with a tech camera is no fun as far as I'm concerned.
 
Jack

As far as image quality goes you will love the D800E. It has amazingly clean shadow detail, even in the very deep shadows. I know it has been discussed a lot in forums and at times it has been a controversial subject but the performance is real. The files one can produce with it are incredibly malleable and one can get the HDR look and feel (or almost any look) with single image capture no problem. That was something only possible with medium format digital before this camera came out. For color photography the top end MFDB's still produce better and more manipulable files. But the D800e is close.
Of course the sensor is not there by itself, you need to consider the lenses and body and if you want camera/lens movements still the tech cameras are king. If I were you I would rent a D800e and a few lenses (lensrentals.com is good) and or any of the other systems you are looking at if you can't go somewhere and test them out before making a final choice.
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Paul Ozzello
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« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2013, 11:11:50 AM »
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Eric,

Tripod I have is very light and my wife can handle that easily.
She is in great shape and can handle a tripod, my light meter and a lens or two.

I used to have the Cambo with several lenses - must admit I didn't care much for it.  Too much to fiddle with.

I'm thinking I'd carry a camera body with a prime wide angle on it - my norm - and wife can handle one short tele prime lens, light meter and tripod.

My eye gravitates to an image that has high dmax and smooth gradations (love the work of Brett Weston and Cole Thompson). Look of images I like is with a lot of contrast BUT with details in the shadows and highlight.  Need lots of dmax to accomplish that or mild use of HDR - HDR with a tech camera is no fun as far as I'm concerned.
 
Jack

Have you considered the Sigma DP1/DP2 Merrills ? They're a little quirky but I've seen some 30" prints that are mind blowing.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2013, 11:46:03 AM »
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The new M with 24MP Cmos sensor and live view.
Very nice discreet urban/street photography camera.

Range finder as well as live view focusing.

Brilliant lenses.

Sits very nicely on the body while walking.

A long time Leica user director of photography friend of mine says it's the best digital Leica without doubt.

Dynamic range is better than their CCD versions. That's going to be important for your sky work.

Another gadget you might want to consider as a side kick to this is the Photodiox Rhino camera.
It is a stitching camera that used for example old Hasselblad lenses and a Nex & camera to produce much higher
res than a MFD SLR. Stitching is easy as it is rectalinear and without moving the lens.
The setup is really really light for the IQ you get.



IQ is outstanding, but you would need a tripod. However there are some really nice super light carbon tripods
like the brenro c21902.

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RVB
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« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2013, 02:16:44 PM »
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Hi all ,just my two cents.. I have also had difficult health problems for a long time and weakness is one of the problems,If weight is an issue then it's tough to beat the Leica M,the new M is almost the same weight as the D800E but the glass is lighter and better than Nikon glass,the high performance glass for canon and nikon that is arriving soon from Zeiss will be excellent but heavy,just look at the size of the 55mm 1.4,

I have a Leica S and it's a little easier to transport than a hasselblad even though the lenses are heavy (they are optically excellent).what about an alpa with the H4d-50 back and rodenstock glass?that would be lighter than the Hassy and HTS with lenses?
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2013, 02:32:54 PM »
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Hi,

You are lucky to have a great person on your side!

Regarding DR I would suggest that late generation Sony sensors are great, and I don't think the M9 is far behind. To get the results you want you need to make best use of that DR. Whatever your choice, it is mostly about making best use of it.

A larger format sensor can collect more light and needs less magnification for a given size of prints. Smaller sensors need t work a lot harder to keep up with demands.

Best regards
Erik


Eric,

Tripod I have is very light and my wife can handle that easily.
She is in great shape and can handle a tripod, my light meter and a lens or two.

I used to have the Cambo with several lenses - must admit I didn't care much for it.  Too much to fiddle with.

I'm thinking I'd carry a camera body with a prime wide angle on it - my norm - and wife can handle one short tele prime lens, light meter and tripod.

My eye gravitates to an image that has high dmax and smooth gradations (love the work of Brett Weston and Cole Thompson). Look of images I like is with a lot of contrast BUT with details in the shadows and highlight.  Need lots of dmax to accomplish that or mild use of HDR - HDR with a tech camera is no fun as far as I'm concerned.
 
Jack
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2013, 03:03:28 PM »
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If weight is the issue and I assume your problems will get worse, I might go for the Leica M and some Leica glass. It will be smaller that the D800, which I have.

If you shoot with one focal length primarily and think you could live with that, an Alpa TC and a digital back might be small and light enough for your wife.

Have you explained the benefits of weight training to your wife? It would seem to solve two problems with one solution and you could keep your Hasselblad...
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FredBGG
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« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2013, 03:19:45 PM »
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Eric,
My eye gravitates to an image that has high dmax and smooth gradations (love the work of Brett Weston and Cole Thompson). Look of images I like is with a lot of contrast BUT with details in the shadows and highlight.  Need lots of dmax to accomplish that or mild use of HDR - HDR with a tech camera is no fun as far as I'm concerned.
Jack

For this aspect of your photography the D800E has the best sensor for you in a relatively light camera.
Shadow and highlight detail is excellent as is shadow and highlight recovery.

Here are two examples:

Shadow detail recovery:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8105/8633809552_a0a67ee815_b.jpg

Highlight detail recovery:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5340/7412274614_0ab5f4bf2f_c.jpg

The new Adobe Camera Raw process does a very nice job in handling blacks and shadows as well as whites and highlights.
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Lust4Life
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« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2013, 09:43:08 PM »
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Both images shot on the D800?
What lens?
Quite impressive!

Jack


For this aspect of your photography the D800E has the best sensor for you in a relatively light camera.
Shadow and highlight detail is excellent as is shadow and highlight recovery.

Here are two examples:

Shadow detail recovery:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8105/8633809552_a0a67ee815_b.jpg

Highlight detail recovery:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5340/7412274614_0ab5f4bf2f_c.jpg

The new Adobe Camera Raw process does a very nice job in handling blacks and shadows as well as whites and highlights.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2013, 11:49:15 PM »
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Hi,

From what I have read and seen Nikon D800, or rather the Sony sensor they use is a real champ in DR. Handling the clouds is more about correctly exposing for the highlights. A larger sensor collects more photons and all other things kept equal gives smoother highlights and midtones. What Sony sensors do really well is to push down the dark noise.

Here are a couple of pages I wrote comparing D800E and Phase One IQ 180, not based on my images but raw images I attained and I have all reasons to think that those images are OK. This may give an idea on the DR issue.

http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/71-mf-digital-myths-or-facts?start=2
http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/71-mf-digital-myths-or-facts?start=3


The new Leica M sensor is quite similar to the Sony sensor. It is CMOS with massively parallell AD-converters. It has something like 1.3 EV less DR than the Nikon but it is still very good.

I use a Sony Alpha 99, which essentially has the same sensor as the D600 (AFAIK), here are some samples. The samples were chosen to show tonal separation in sky, needing a bit short exposure, and lifting shadows. Those are single exposures processed in Lightroom 4.


Original: http://echophoto.smugmug.com/Travel/Stuff/i-JnGb9Pw/0/O/20130119-_DSC0692.jpg


Original: http://echophoto.smugmug.com/Travel/Stuff/27603520_zJWRhh#!i=2492064327&k=s6RWMPw


Original: http://echophoto.smugmug.com/Travel/Stuff/i-XcK9qSZ/0/O/20130406-_DSC1241.jpg

The last image is taken with a Sigma 12-24/4.5-5.6 at 15 mm, it has really bad corners, I know.
Best regards
Erik



Both images shot on the D800?
What lens?
Quite impressive!

Jack


« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 11:54:27 PM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

Lust4Life
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« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2013, 05:55:38 AM »
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OK, so let's say I go with the D800E as I'm obsessed with sharp landscape details.
I noted on the link above to the Phase/D800 comparison that he was using a Leica 50Cron lens on the D800.

Search shows there are several Adapters for the Leica to Nikon lenses.
Any favorite brands?

Has anyone compared the Leica lenses with an adapter to the Nikkor ED or like lenses?

In short, what I'm hoping to define is what wide angle (I live with the 28 Hassie as my main lens) and shot tele lenses, regardless of price, would be considered the optimum to mate with a D800E shooting landscapes.

Jack
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 06:32:01 AM by Lust4Life » Logged

ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2013, 08:18:09 AM »
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Leitax, but it is not exactly an adapter but a replacement bayonet. Leitax is here: http://leitax.com


Regarding lenses, your 28 mm on the D50 corresponds to about 20 mm on full frame 135 (based on image diagonal). So I guess 18 mm is closest.

I would also consider Zeiss lenses and some of the Nikon lenses. Sigma 35/1.4, Sigma Macros are said to be awesome.

Zeiss has a new generation of lenses built for full frame 135, Distagon 25/2, Distagon 55/1.4 and Apo Sonnar 135/2.

I'm pretty sure many of Nikon's lenses are perfectly good for the job.

I am not sure that Leica lenses are better than say Zeiss, Nikon or Sigma. They may be better in some cases or some aspects.

Most lenses are quite OK when stopped down, so much of the effort is going into designing lenses that perform well at large apertures.

Photozone has a lot of lens test. They are good tests as long as we agree with their testing methods. They "work around" field curvature and it may be OK or it may not.

I have not seen a lot of comparisons between Leica and Nikon.

Marc McCalmont (who uses Leica lenses on Nikon D800E) is very helpful, you can consider PM-ing him with your questions.

Best regards
Erik

OK, so let's say I go with the D800E as I'm obsessed with sharp landscape details.
I noted on the link above to the Phase/D800 comparison that he was using a Leica 50Cron lens on the D800.

Search shows there are several Adapters for the Leica to Nikon lenses.
Any favorite brands?

Has anyone compared the Leica lenses with an adapter to the Nikkor ED or like lenses?

In short, what I'm hoping to define is what wide angle (I live with the 28 Hassie as my main lens) and shot tele lenses, regardless of price, would be considered the optimum to mate with a D800E shooting landscapes.

Jack
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 10:46:13 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2013, 08:24:30 AM »
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Hi,

Nikon 14-24/2.8, Zeiss 15/2.8, Zeiss 18/3.5, Zeiss 21/2.8, Samyang 14/2.8. Regardless of price.

Check this site: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/03/d800-lens-selection

And this one: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/blog/keyword?k=D800E

I guess that authors are happy to comment.

Best regards
Erik
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hasselbladfan
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« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2013, 01:08:31 PM »
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Having been sooo pleased with the images I have been getting from my Hassie, I expect it will be impossible to find anything to equal the files that I'm used to working on, but I'll learn to adjust - I just want what as close to what I've had without all of the weight issues.


Before making the step of downgrading your equipment, have you considered taking a dog?

I recently saw a dog (men's best friend) carrying a backpack for his master. It was resting on his back and attached to his belly, so that it could not slip. I am not sure what was in it, but any big dog can carry a Hassie and some lenses on his back.

I am sure your wife can walk the dog next to you and you can still use your favorite brand (mine also by the way). Leicas are great, but not the same.
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