Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 39 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions  (Read 46875 times)
Gulag
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 167



« Reply #200 on: May 07, 2013, 02:01:57 PM »
ReplyReply

Maybe you are looking too hard.

I should be more banal?
Logged

"The difference which you can make between fine arts and commercial or little art is today corresponded by the difference between the art that obeys and the art that does not obey. Great art does not obey. All others are arts that are of low quality, even pitiful. " - Paul Virilio
Mark D Segal
Contributor
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6767


WWW
« Reply #201 on: May 07, 2013, 02:03:59 PM »
ReplyReply

I should be more banal?

I removed the post because the response was not intended for you - it was meant for Steve Weldon who thinks I wasn't looking hard enough for legal pretexts. Somehow it landed in the wrong place. Apologies.
Logged

Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
johnvr
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 47


« Reply #202 on: May 07, 2013, 02:09:41 PM »
ReplyReply

I don't think it's all about pricing. It's about control, independent decision-making and being stuck in a potentially perpetually closed system.

For example, Evernote is free, but it's also really hard to get something out of it in a generally used format, so I'd be wary of using it for something that's going to be important to me until the day I die. Same now applies to PS.
Logged
Stephen Girimont
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24


WWW
« Reply #203 on: May 07, 2013, 02:13:06 PM »
ReplyReply

Are you sure Adobe forces them to upgrade? As long as one pays the subscription, why shouldn’t they be able to use that locally installed (older) version so they don't have to hurry out and buy a new computer? Are you sure there is this mandatory upgrade process? It doesn't make sense as long as you pay for the subscription, you should be able to use whatever 'version' or build you wish.
A previous post had a quote from Adobe that the subscribers have 1 year to upgrade. I have not independently verified this, however.
Logged
jwstl
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 69


« Reply #204 on: May 07, 2013, 02:24:02 PM »
ReplyReply

A previous post had a quote from Adobe that the subscribers have 1 year to upgrade. I have not independently verified this, however.

I'm not sure where that came from but the CC FAQ seems to imply otherwise:

As a Creative Cloud member, am I required to install an upgrade to a desktop application when it becomes available?
No. You are not required to install any new version of the desktop applications available in Creative Cloud. You can continue using your current version of the product as long as you have an active membership. You have flexibility on when you install a new release to take advantage of new product features, if you choose to do so.

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html
Logged
jrsforums
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 705


« Reply #205 on: May 07, 2013, 02:31:44 PM »
ReplyReply

And you can go from Adobe to someone else's software. You can't re-use the stuff you didn't see from your cable subscription last month (DVR not withstanding).
So are TIFFs. The phone is the phone. What is it without a subscription plan? It's a little computer but it's not a phone. You stop paying Sprint, you stop getting phone service. The numbers on that phone or the phone itself is totally different. That's hardware.  
Which are useful to do what if you don't pay the subscription to get onto the web? There IS software back there allowing you to do that. And the software stops working when you stop paying your ISP's subscription. Just like HBO stops when you don't pay the cable bill. What good is Safari if you can't use it to access the data on the web you subscribe to?


The services you initially used in your example are the problem.  None directly relate to the situation or concerns that CC is driving.

Magazines are the closest.  With a magazine, if the subscription stops you still have the old copies.  The reason you stopped the subscription is you decided you did not want any new ones.

The other examples are examples of fluid, on-going access to new material (TV, Cable, phone/text activity) or stored material (movies, internet sites, TV replays, social media).  Continued access to these is a choice we can make and start/stop easily at our will.  Changing access to them (provider) is relatively easy and will provide similar, if not identical experience.

The PS CC situation is a bit different.  Yes, we still have the beginning point...the RAW image, so we can start again.  Yes, we can have the end point, the Tiff...the flattened tiff.  But what about the work product.  What if we do not want to start over, just modify one non-destructive aspect of the rendering....that is gone.

It is even worse if we consider Lightroom (which is available separately, but available currently CC).  If the CC sub ends, so does LR....where most of the work product is not stored or saved as tiff or jpeg.  What a disaster that would be...!!

The point is, the Adobe situation is unique and does, and should, build fear of losing precious work that we have done.  Whether Adobe sees fit to work to relieve these concerns is their choice, just as it is our choice to look at areas where we can protect our interests...i.e. other products.  And don't get me wrong, I like the products and have a CC sub....I just need to protect my images (just like the Photo CD discussion we had)
Logged

John
Mark D Segal
Contributor
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6767


WWW
« Reply #206 on: May 07, 2013, 02:38:58 PM »
ReplyReply



It is even worse if we consider Lightroom (which is available separately, but available currently CC).  If the CC sub ends, so does LR....where most of the work product is not stored or saved as tiff or jpeg.  What a disaster that would be...!!



Hold on. We still have LR as a perpetual license product. We don't know, if/when that status will be changed. BUT, LR does preserve our original raw files in their raw format, or in DNG or in both depending on how we format our LR arrangements. We will always be able to open our original raw files - and even worked ones with any version of LR or other software that recognizes the raw format and perhaps the XMP metadata if we edited using that. So even IF LR were to become a rented service to which we choose not to subscribe, it's not clear to me that our raw files would become inaccessible. We may suffer workflow inconveniences and the loss of unreadable edits if what we use next is incompatible with the latest version of LR in which the file was worked. That would be bad, but not necessarily a disaster.
Logged

Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
BartvanderWolf
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 3003


« Reply #207 on: May 07, 2013, 02:40:59 PM »
ReplyReply

I'm not sure where that came from but the CC FAQ seems to imply otherwise:

It came from here:
Quote
Myth #5: I will be forced to always run the latest version of the software

You are not forced to upgrade. You can continue to run which ever versions of the software that you want until YOU are ready to upgrade. This is crucial for workflows that involve working with clients or vendors that may not be on the latest versions of the software. You can continue using your current version of the product for one full year after the subsequent version is released.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 02:42:54 PM by BartvanderWolf » Logged
digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8027



WWW
« Reply #208 on: May 07, 2013, 02:43:18 PM »
ReplyReply

I'm not sure where that came from but the CC FAQ seems to imply otherwise:

Excellent, thanks. So nix that last scenario, no forced updates. Keep the old hardware.
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
Stephen Girimont
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24


WWW
« Reply #209 on: May 07, 2013, 02:46:36 PM »
ReplyReply

Excellent, thanks. So nix that last scenario, no forced updates. Keep the old hardware.
I hope that's the case, but we seem to have conflicting information from Adobe (not surprising given the scope of this change). Hopefully, they'll be able to clear it up. I really can't see Adobe FORCING such an update as that really does cross the boundaries into monopolistic behavior.
Logged
digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8027



WWW
« Reply #210 on: May 07, 2013, 02:47:24 PM »
ReplyReply

The other examples are examples of fluid, on-going access to new material (TV, Cable, phone/text activity) or stored material (movies, internet sites, TV replays, social media).  Continued access to these is a choice we can make and start/stop easily at our will.

Just like a software product. Sorry, I don't see the big distinctions here. The newer process is, well newer, different, has some big advantages and some big disadvantages. You either buy into the proposition and upgrade or you don't.  
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
AFairley
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1100



« Reply #211 on: May 07, 2013, 02:53:02 PM »
ReplyReply

This is an effort to save the small retailers. 

Wayne is right on target.  I am going to hate hate hate having to pay an extra 9% on my big ticket purchases, but sales tax on internet purchases is an idea that is years overdue.  Ecommerce is no longer a nascent industry that needs nurturing.
Logged

digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8027



WWW
« Reply #212 on: May 07, 2013, 02:58:58 PM »
ReplyReply

I hope that's the case, but we seem to have conflicting information from Adobe (not surprising given the scope of this change). Hopefully, they'll be able to clear it up. I really can't see Adobe FORCING such an update as that really does cross the boundaries into monopolistic behavior.

It IS the case:

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html


As a Creative Cloud member, am I required to install an upgrade to a desktop application when it becomes available?
No. You are not required to install any new version of the desktop applications available in Creative Cloud. You can continue using your current version of the product as long as you have an active membership. You have flexibility on when you install a new release to take advantage of new product features, if you choose to do so.
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
Rhossydd
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1862


WWW
« Reply #213 on: May 07, 2013, 03:00:07 PM »
ReplyReply

We may suffer workflow inconveniences and the loss of unreadable edits if what we use next is incompatible with the latest version of LR in which the file was worked. That would be bad, but not necessarily a disaster.
I wonder if Phase One, DXO or ACDSee are working on a migration tool ?
Having looked today at the current version of C1 it's looking a very similar program to LR, one I could probably live with and there are some features I like more than LR anyway.
A lot of the DAM features could be migrated and I'd guess that they could make a fair stab at converting some parts of the processing settings to something that was close enough to work with.

Given the next version LR5b isn't looking a very compelling upgrade now and with the subscription only option looming, maybe it's time to stop investing in LR and move to a more photographic centric company to spend my money with in future.
Logged
Stephen Girimont
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24


WWW
« Reply #214 on: May 07, 2013, 03:15:42 PM »
ReplyReply

It IS the case:

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html


As a Creative Cloud member, am I required to install an upgrade to a desktop application when it becomes available?
No. You are not required to install any new version of the desktop applications available in Creative Cloud. You can continue using your current version of the product as long as you have an active membership. You have flexibility on when you install a new release to take advantage of new product features, if you choose to do so.
Yes, I've seen that. Unfortunately, there is another Adobe FAQ (of sorts) that conflicts with this...
http://blogs.adobe.com/dreamweaver/2013/03/5-myths-about-adobe-creative-cloud.html
Logged
digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8027



WWW
« Reply #215 on: May 07, 2013, 03:17:50 PM »
ReplyReply

Yes, I've seen that. Unfortunately, there is another Adobe FAQ (of sorts) that conflicts with this...
http://blogs.adobe.com/dreamweaver/2013/03/5-myths-about-adobe-creative-cloud.html

That link seems equally clear:

Myth #5: I will be forced to always run the latest version of the software.

You are not forced to upgrade.
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
Colorwave
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 974


WWW
« Reply #216 on: May 07, 2013, 03:22:25 PM »
ReplyReply

Hold on. We still have LR as a perpetual license product. We don't know, if/when that status will be changed.
I don't think you could find a wagering partner that would be willing to bet that Adobe will ultimately not consolidate their approach and treat LR the same way as the rest of CS.  Just look at John Nack's blog, and his stating that with the advent of CC that perpetual licensing was destined to remain a parallel option to subscription.  He's trying to back off of being called for that about face now, but it is obvious that they want to force their customer's hand, but head fake until they actually make their move.
Logged

Stephen Girimont
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24


WWW
« Reply #217 on: May 07, 2013, 03:30:52 PM »
ReplyReply

That link seems equally clear:

Myth #5: I will be forced to always run the latest version of the software.

You are not forced to upgrade.

You can't stop there. Here is the full statement (once again): You are not forced to upgrade. You can continue to run which ever versions of the software that you want until YOU are ready to upgrade. This is crucial for workflows that involve working with clients or vendors that may not be on the latest versions of the software. You can continue using your current version of the product for one full year after the subsequent version is released.

Confusing and conflicting? Yes indeed.
Logged
Gulag
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 167



« Reply #218 on: May 07, 2013, 03:40:41 PM »
ReplyReply

For open-source: I know there is GIMP, which supports 16-bit color, and really powerful ImageJ, which supports 32-bit color.

I'd love to hear what your views on any other meaningful alternatives to Photoshop out there.
Logged

"The difference which you can make between fine arts and commercial or little art is today corresponded by the difference between the art that obeys and the art that does not obey. Great art does not obey. All others are arts that are of low quality, even pitiful. " - Paul Virilio
jrsforums
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 705


« Reply #219 on: May 07, 2013, 03:49:03 PM »
ReplyReply

Hold on. We still have LR as a perpetual license product. We don't know, if/when that status will be changed. BUT, LR does preserve our original raw files in their raw format, or in DNG or in both depending on how we format our LR arrangements. We will always be able to open our original raw files - and even worked ones with any version of LR or other software that recognizes the raw format and perhaps the XMP metadata if we edited using that. So even IF LR were to become a rented service to which we choose not to subscribe, it's not clear to me that our raw files would become inaccessible. We may suffer workflow inconveniences and the loss of unreadable edits if what we use next is incompatible with the latest version of LR in which the file was worked. That would be bad, but not necessarily a disaster.

Sorry, Mark...thought I made it clear that LR was available as perpetual license...but was anticipating problems if it became ONLY CC...or if someone was using it under CC license, which ended and could not then get a perpetual license.

The problem I see is not relative to RAWs.  They are unchanged.

Don't know about your workflow, but if you do most/all of your processing, printing, emailing, website update (Smugmug, Flickr, Zenfolio, etc) you probably have rendered tiffs or jpegs, but you have probably not saved them.  Anytime you need to do something, you just need to recreate it and print/send it.  All the LR instructions of what changes you made are in XMP (catalog and/or file).  Without a working copy of LR available, all your development work is lost.  

In addition, without the catalog, any organizational structures, such as collections are also gone.

I guess what I was trying to point out is LR as subscription only has more concerns than PS.  At least with PS, when you save you will create a file.  With LR, no such file exists, unless you work outside the workflow that, I believe, LR was designed for.
Logged

John
Pages: « 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 39 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad