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Author Topic: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions  (Read 76932 times)
Kirk Gittings
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« Reply #60 on: May 06, 2013, 08:40:44 PM »
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So here is how my brain works.....if I have to pay double I want something that is twice as good......
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Kirk

Kirk Gittings
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JonathanRimmel
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« Reply #61 on: May 06, 2013, 08:48:56 PM »
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I have been adamantly against this whole cloud business from the beginning.  When it comes to computers I have always wanted as much control as possible.  To have my software (or worse, my files) out there in cyberspace is not appealing at all.  Additionally I like to keep my reoccurring bills to a minimum.  The way I work is to save and buy.  I don't even like to download large important software unless I can burn it to disk.  I currently use Design and Web Premium CS6.  I figured if Nikon ever made a D400 and I bought one, I would move to the Adobe Master Collection for the video software too. But with this recent development, it looks like I will be rocking CS6 for as long as I can stand.  As I grow even more in photography, I find Lightroom to be an ever more valuable tool.  It would be perhaps worse if it follows the same path.
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JonathanRimmel
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« Reply #62 on: May 06, 2013, 08:49:17 PM »
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So here is how my brain works.....if I have to pay double I want something that is twice as good......

+1
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Rick Popham
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« Reply #63 on: May 06, 2013, 08:53:25 PM »
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Well Rick, actually we do get to keep them as long as we continue to pay. It is a treadmill, no question about it; that said, for most of us, had we been able to remain on the old model we would continue to pay our $185~200 every 18 months - a voluntary treadmill. So when we get right down to it, in practical terms three things have changed: (i) we become renters, (ii) we pay more, and (iii) we get feature adds in real time  instead of waiting 18 months for them. I'm ambivalent. The only downside I see apart from the eventual price increase is that the day I want to get off the treadmill (say because the incremental features just become less valuable than continuing to paying the rent), I shall have to revert to CS6 and lose the new features I had accumulated while renting. This is not good.

That's just the thing -- the treadmill.  I've always upgraded, even when I could have skipped versions with no penalty, because I found value in the upgrade.  I always thought that, because we COULD skip versions, Adobe had a real incentive to make sure there WAS value in the upgrade.  That incentive pretty much ended today.  I would have upgraded to a perpetual Photoshop CS7 license for the new features announced today, but I'm not going to get on a never ending treadmill to use them.   I'm not ambivalent about Photoshop Credit Card at all.  

I'm going to stick with CS6. The new features are nice, but much less valuable to me as a rental.  The "Loyal Customer" deal Adobe is offering for Photoshop, which is basically the same price I've been paying all along, is kind of insulting.  

Photoshop CS6 isn't a bad place to be "stuck".  
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Joe S
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« Reply #64 on: May 06, 2013, 09:09:32 PM »
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That's just the thing -- the treadmill.  I've always upgraded, even when I could have skipped versions with no penalty, because I found value in the upgrade.  I always thought that, because we COULD skip versions, Adobe had a real incentive to make sure there WAS value in the upgrade.  That incentive pretty much ended today.  I would have upgraded to a perpetual Photoshop CS7 license for the new features announced today, but I'm not going to get on a never ending treadmill to use them.   I'm not ambivalent about Photoshop Credit Card at all.   


Exactly!    Adobe has zero incentive to add value now.   "Trust us, we will keep improving the product just because we are so nice."

The problem with staying with CS6 comes when we buy a new camera and need raw conversion.

Eventually the market will take care of this, but for the near term we are screwed.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #65 on: May 06, 2013, 09:17:08 PM »
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The problem with staying with CS6 comes when we buy a new camera and need raw conversion.



As long as Lightroom or several other raw converters out (e.g. C1, Aperture) there remains available and kept up to date you don't need to update Photoshop if the only reason for the up-dating is Camera Raw. The option to convert raw files in LR, and render them as TIFFs and PSDs remains. What's nice about the current set-up, however, is the quite seamless integration.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Rick Popham
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« Reply #66 on: May 06, 2013, 09:18:47 PM »
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Exactly!    Adobe has zero incentive to add value now.   "Trust us, we will keep improving the product just because we are so nice."

The problem with staying with CS6 comes when we buy a new camera and need raw conversion.


I'll use Lightroom for that.  It'll be less convenient than keeping both versions current, but it works pretty well.  If they decide to make Lightroom Cloud only, I'll get Capture 1, or DXO.  Adobe doesn't have a monopoly on RAW conversion.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #67 on: May 06, 2013, 09:23:15 PM »
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 Adobe has zero incentive to add value now.   

I don't agree with this statement. In the longer-term perspective any business that doesn't continue to add value will be toast. The questions are about what kind of value and whether it will be worth the rental fees. That remains to be seen. We can't jump to conclusions, save to say that Photoshop is already a very mature application - thanks to Adobe.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Schewe
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« Reply #68 on: May 06, 2013, 09:39:58 PM »
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The problem with staying with CS6 comes when we buy a new camera and need raw conversion.

Actually, Adobe has already said that Camera Raw 8.x will run in both Photoshop CC (with the full new feature set) AND in Photoshop CS6 (which will run without the new features). So, for new camera support, Photoshop CS6 will get new cameras added by updating to ACR 8.x.
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bill t.
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« Reply #69 on: May 06, 2013, 09:43:58 PM »
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Exactly!    Adobe has zero incentive to add value now.   "Trust us, we will keep improving the product just because we are so nice."

I'm sure Adobe understands that with such a large price increase it has opened itself up to a competitive attack from below.  That should add quite a bit of incentive.

A commercial assault on Adobe imaging primacy is now a much more tempting venture and I'm sure a lot of hungry young entrepreneurs are having a tall one tonight, and I'd buy the next round if I was there.  Catching up with Adobe is no trivial task, and software patent minefields are everywhere.  But quite frankly the somewhat antiquarian interface paradigms in PS and Illustrator make them increasingly vulnerable in the absence of really substantial improvements. The potential profit from competition just doubled, and so has the money that can be offered to skilled defectors.  There are legions of low end Photoshop users who will probably jump ship over the price increases, and they're ready for the picking.
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hugowolf
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« Reply #70 on: May 06, 2013, 09:52:01 PM »
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There are legions of low end Photoshop users who will probably jump ship over the price increases, and they're ready for the picking.
Perhaps pushed to PS Elements, but who knows where that is going with regards CC.

Brian A
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hugowolf
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« Reply #71 on: May 06, 2013, 09:54:32 PM »
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And what now happens to the Adobe academic discounts? The same pricing as an update for the full version, which was the starting path for many a Photoshop user.

Brian A
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Joe S
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« Reply #72 on: May 06, 2013, 09:59:18 PM »
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Actually, Adobe has already said that Camera Raw 8.x will run in both Photoshop CC (with the full new feature set) AND in Photoshop CS6 (which will run without the new features). So, for new camera support, Photoshop CS6 will get new cameras added by updating to ACR 8.x.


So we will be OK until camera raw 9 comes out.
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jrsforums
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« Reply #73 on: May 06, 2013, 10:01:33 PM »
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Quote
CS6 customers get Complete for $19.99

I may have missed it here and on the Adobe site....anyone have a link to an Adobe site where this is stated.?
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John
Joe S
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« Reply #74 on: May 06, 2013, 10:03:57 PM »
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I'll use Lightroom for that.  It'll be less convenient than keeping both versions current, but it works pretty well.  If they decide to make Lightroom Cloud only, I'll get Capture 1, or DXO.  Adobe doesn't have a monopoly on RAW conversion.

Yes things are better for lightroom users assuming they don't make that a "cloud" software.    As a camera raw user I guess I should re-examine capture 1.
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jrsforums
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« Reply #75 on: May 06, 2013, 10:25:53 PM »
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Actually, Adobe has already said that Camera Raw 8.x will run in both Photoshop CC (with the full new feature set) AND in Photoshop CS6 (which will run without the new features). So, for new camera support, Photoshop CS6 will get new cameras added by updating to ACR 8.x.

Can you provide a link when you make statements about what Adobe has said.  You may be absolutely correct, but there is nothing like seeing it on an official Adobe web page.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 10:27:27 PM by jrsforums » Logged

John
jwstl
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« Reply #76 on: May 06, 2013, 10:33:19 PM »
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Can you provide a link when you make statements about what Adobe has said.  You may be absolutely correct, but there is nothing like seeing it on an official Adobe web page.

I read it here:

https://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2013/05/adobe-camera-raw-8-support-for-photoshop-cc-and-photoshop-cs6.html
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jrsforums
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« Reply #77 on: May 06, 2013, 10:39:57 PM »
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Thanks....looks like support for new cameras will probably end when CS6 stops shipping.  One would suspect that that will be when CC "ships". (I stand corrected...just saw they will be sold side-by-side for "some time").
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 12:03:45 AM by jrsforums » Logged

John
Joe S
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« Reply #78 on: May 06, 2013, 10:51:35 PM »
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If I understand correctly we can convert newer cameras files to dng and use our older version of camera raw as long as they continue supporting dng and don't move it off to a cloud.
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jrsforums
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« Reply #79 on: May 06, 2013, 10:51:55 PM »
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Yes things are better for lightroom users assuming they don't make that a "cloud" software.

I would suspect that is only a matter of time.

This is not only an Adobe "trend", but appears to be an industry trend to smooth out their cash flow and lock in users to "lifetime dancing lessons"

Microsoft is doing it with Office 2013.,,,but at least there you can pay a bit more to get an enduring license.

As a number of people have said, my major concern is that there is no way, with the Adobe subscription model, to settle in one place, without continued payments.  And I can be slowly nibbled away with increased monthly payments...with my only choice being to jump to competition....with no ability to ever go back and rework the edits I made....because the software is no longer available to me.
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John
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