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Author Topic: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto  (Read 5430 times)
BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2013, 03:17:16 AM »
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thank you very much sir , I love the owl shot !
 i've also heard that having a teleconverter also worsten this effect (shallower depth of field)
like having a 300mm with a 2x at f8 tele is worst
than having a 600mm at f8

Hi Andre,

You've probably been told wrong. Only if the Tele-converter/extender is a poor match to the lens in front of it, will image quality suffer, but not DoF. DoF is related to the focal length (which changes with an extender), the aperture, and the focus distance (and a CoC criterion for calculating the acceptable limits). There may be a small additional effect from the specific combined optical construction, due to the pupil magnification factor, but that is different between different designs, so cannot be taken as a general consideration.

DoF near the focus plane is mostly determined by the magnification factor if we keep the aperture constant (and shoot significantly closer than the hyper-focal length), so it also doesn't matter much for the DoF if one uses a shorter focal length, and shoots closer to keep the same magnification, or the other way around. It does matter for the rendering of the OOF fore- and background (the magnification changes with focal length and distance).

One of the better sources of information about DoF and other optical considerations can be found here.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 03:42:52 AM by BartvanderWolf » Logged
lowep
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2013, 06:07:09 AM »
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why not take 2 shots at different focus points and blend them together in photoshop?
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BJL
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2013, 09:36:48 PM »
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why not take 2 shots at different focus points and blend them together in photoshop?
Often not possible with wildlife, if it is indeed alive, and not "nailed to the perch".

My suggestions are to experiment with:
1. higher ISO speeds, especially since for wildlife photography, the resolution of modern cameras is oftn more than enough, so that a dose of noise reduction processing is acceptable.
2. "loose framing" and cropping rather than a teleconvertor, again exploiting the abundance of sensor resolution.
My premise here is that about 8MP is often enough --- and more than one ever got with 35mm film, given the moderate to high ISO film typically used with long lens wildlife photography.


P.S. thanks to Les Palenik for the advice and great examples.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 09:38:42 PM by BJL » Logged
Tony Jay
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« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2013, 04:48:30 AM »
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why not take 2 shots at different focus points and blend them together in photoshop?
I have never seen a bird or an animal in the wild stay still long enough...

Tony Jay
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lowep
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« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2013, 06:56:07 AM »
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http://www.tonywhitehead.com/wildlight/2012/12/focus-stacking-for-bird-photography/
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 06:57:55 AM by lowep » Logged
Tony Jay
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« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2013, 05:24:14 PM »
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I read the link - note the opening sentence, "Having found a co-operative gull and chick..."
This is rare as hen's (pardon gull's) teeth and focus stacking is in no way a generally applicable technique for bird and wildlife photography.
So, this cannot be suggested to the OP as a solution to his perceived problem.
Good on Tony Whitehead for spotting the opportunity and managing to exploit it though.

Tony Jay
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lowep
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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2013, 02:40:26 AM »
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This is rare as hen's (pardon gull's) teeth

+1  Wink
it took me quite a while to find this example - most people seem to use focus stacking for photographing bugs.
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2013, 03:38:46 AM »
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This is rare as hen's (pardon gull's) teeth

+1  Wink
it took me quite a while to find this example - most people seem to use focus stacking for photographing bugs.
Yes, focus stacking is a tricky technique even with static subjects but fantastic results are possible with macro-type subjects.
An Australian couple has done an entire book of images of native flowers using HDR and focus stacking.
Apparently an enormous amount of work (I can believe it too!) but to call the results spectacular undersells it a bit.

Tony Jay
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2013, 03:59:06 AM »
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This is rare as hen's (pardon gull's) teeth and focus stacking is in no way a generally applicable technique for bird and wildlife photography.

Hi Tony,

I disagree. It has to do with looking for the opportunity.

In this shot I wanted both the mother and chick in focus, and in a pose that showed both as well as possible.

While in this composite they seem to be in the same focal plane, they were actually in different places. The chicks went for short swims on their own, and struggled while crawling back into the nest. I also cloned in (and out) some of the foreground branches to show the rough structure of the nest.

Cheers,
Bart
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2013, 04:15:43 AM »
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Hi,

One way to try is get focusing right. If things don't move I normally use live view at 11X times magnification, but this obviously doesn't work for action.

Stopping down to f/22 or so may be OK. Diffraction is very benign to sharpening. Some sharpening tools can improve slightly out of focus detail.

DoF is pretty much given with long lenses. Nothing to do about, really.

Best regards
Erik
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2013, 04:18:52 AM »
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Bart

Nothing to say that it can't be done - you have provided an image to show that you have achieved it too.
Could one look for opportunities - sure.

Having spent a lot of time shooting with supertelephoto lenses over the last seven years (perhaps not long when compared to your good self) I have so rarely had a static scenario with birds or wildlife where I could even consider such a technique that I can't really recall one.

I am headed to Southern Africa later this year on a photographic expedition.
I will keep my eyes open for opportunities - who knows - a sleeping pride of lions perhaps?
Nonetheless shooting from inside a vehicle with no way of fixing the camera position I am not that optimistic of getting a workable sequence of images that I could focus stack.

I think it fantastic, if achievable, but I would classify it rather more more as a novelty than as a generally applicable technique in the context.

Tony Jay
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lowep
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« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2013, 04:45:14 AM »
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shooting from inside a vehicle with no way of fixing the camera position

 Huh do you mean you choose not to fix the camera position?
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2013, 04:56:22 AM »
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shooting from inside a vehicle with no way of fixing the camera position

 Huh do you mean you choose not to fix the camera position?

Well, only that using a big beanbag over the window or doorframe cannot guarantee the same perspective with consecutive shots, particularly if a change in focus is required between images.
With supertelephoto lenses the smallest movement results in massive changes of what one sees down the lens.
Focus stacking off a tripod and using a remote for landscape or macro - completely different issue.

Tony Jay
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2013, 08:39:16 AM »
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I am headed to Southern Africa later this year on a photographic expedition.
I will keep my eyes open for opportunities - who knows - a sleeping pride of lions perhaps?
Nonetheless shooting from inside a vehicle with no way of fixing the camera position I am not that optimistic of getting a workable sequence of images that I could focus stack.

Hi Tony,

One has to at least keep an open mind to the potential use of multiple image composites. In fact, you can additionally explore the opportunities of pano-stitching with a tele-lens! It can be easier than stitching wide-angle shots, because the foreground detail could be non-existing or blurred, and the background blurred enough to hide parallax issues.

The benefit of tele-lens stitching is that you can seemingly get close and personal, yet have the field of view similar to that of a wider angle lens. Great sunsets are common, but a lot of other subjects can be done just as easily (which is not the same as easy, it may require some clever selection/blending/compositing work).

Anyway, whatever it takes to get the shot image, is what counts. Only reporters are bound to truth in imaging.

Cheers,
Bart
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2013, 04:10:09 AM »
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Well Bart,

I am no stranger to using tele lenses for panoramas, but again, I would use a tripod, purpose head, and a remote.
I am having to carefully weigh (both literally and metaphorically) the merits of various lenses and accessories that will go with to Africa.
Some local flights will limit me to 20 kg in total. (Luckily my foray into the Okavango is relatively short so if I need to I will limit clothes to just a change of undies because I want to avoid limiting photographic opportunities which will not only be birds and wildlife with supertelephoto lenses but also landscape. I don't expect too many opportunities for macro shooting so no macro lenses to be packed.)
It is true that my better half will be with me and that we will not be packing much in the way of clothes but I certainly will not be able to take anywhere near the equipment that I travel with in Australia.
In fact my Nissan Patrol, that I affectionately refer to as my camera bag, is most definitely needed for all the bits and bobs that currently fit in several large pelican cases.

Tony Jay
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2013, 07:14:39 AM »
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I am having to carefully weigh (both literally and metaphorically) the merits of various lenses and accessories that will go with to Africa.

Hi Tony,

You've probably already done a fair bit of preparation, but perhaps this experienced safari photographer and blogger can still offer some additional inspiration, and experience:
http://www.theglobalphotographer.com/the-global-photographer/category/safari-reports

He also shows what's in his bag, and explains why: http://www.theglobalphotographer.com/whats-in-andys-bag/

Cheers,
Bart
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2013, 01:21:21 AM »
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Andy Biggs, I am very familiar with.
Never met him unfortunately.

My favourite image of his is an airborne shot of the Skeleton Coast.

Tony Jay
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wildlightphoto
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« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2013, 10:12:12 PM »
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Hi all I've been trying to figure out how to get decent dof from ground level shooting wildlife, any advice from an experience photographer would help

As others have mentioned, there isn't any DOF to speak of.  Wildlife, especially smaller creatures, is a photographic "perfect storm": small (requires more magnification) active (indicates fast shutter speed) uncooperative (generally requires a long lens) creatures who often prefer subdued light (works against DOF and fast shutter speed) in 3-d space when the camera can record clearly in only 2 dimensions.  Your task as a wildlife photographer, if you choose to accept it, is to minimize the effect of any or all of these whammies.

Some ways to get around these problems include artificial light, a remote-controlled camera near a place the birds will normally come to, and waiting for the perfect moment when the critter is standing still, parallel to the plane of focus.

I prefer not to use artificial light and I also prefer to keep the camera in my hands so that I can respond to unanticipated activities, but I haven't figured out how to get around the plane of focus thing so I wait until everyone is lined up:


« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 08:14:22 AM by wildlightphoto » Logged
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