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Author Topic: The answer to Adobe's and all our problems  (Read 5069 times)
hjulenissen
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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2013, 01:38:59 PM »
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There is little doubt that deprecating old APIs and effectively "forcing" all users to use the most recent OS (and all application developers to develop specifically for that OS) is an effective strategy for reducing the QA testing complexity, improving security and a host of other good things for quality (or keeping the quality constant, reducing the staff and increasing profits)

There are some drawbacks, though. The Microsoft strategy seemed to be that "software is king": once people bought a piece of software they expected to be able to use that application for "eternity" without updates. Is this working for Microsoft right now? Are they in the dominant position they used to be? Perhaps not. I think it is strange to view this choice as anything but a trade-off; Apple chose one trade-off, Microsoft another.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html
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Jon Ross, who wrote the original version of SimCity for Windows 3.x, told me that he accidentally left a bug in SimCity where he read memory that he had just freed. Yep. It worked fine on Windows 3.x, because the memory never went anywhere. Here's the amazing part: On beta versions of Windows 95, SimCity wasn't working in testing. Microsoft tracked down the bug and added specific code to Windows 95 that looks for SimCity. If it finds SimCity running, it runs the memory allocator in a special mode that doesn't free memory right away. That's the kind of obsession with backward compatibility that made people willing to upgrade to Windows 95.

For programs that are not very demanding on resources or low-level hardware-access, one might expect virtualization tools to solve all problems: dump the application to some sand-boxed environment that makes it happy, use it for your work, stay happy.

-h
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 01:40:43 PM by hjulenissen » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2013, 05:39:12 PM »
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I prefer Macs.  I don't want to be locked into Windows only.

Sal

That's just too funny for words.
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Sal Baker
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« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2013, 05:52:26 PM »
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That's just too funny for words.
I agree.  A lot of people don't consider that Macs run Windows and OSX.  Fortunately MS and Apple are both doing very well so they don't need promotion from us.

Sal
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2013, 08:08:45 AM »
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Those are already out there, Dave.  Raw Therapee is one that is highly regarded.

Bob, I have just had a look at Raw Therapee and it looks rather good, thanks for the info  Smiley

Dave
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2013, 10:41:04 AM »
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Bob, I have just had a look at Raw Therapee and it looks rather good, thanks for the info  Smiley

In fact, and I've mentioned it on other occasions as well, the conversion quality (Amaze algorithm) is very good and delivers very high resolution with very few artifacts. It also has a Raw data histogram! Essential for those who want to get the most out of their (bracketed) exposures. The number of available options may look intimidating at first, but you don't need to use all of them Wink

Cheers,
Bart
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bill t.
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« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2013, 09:52:03 PM »
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But Raw Therapee must be used with some discipline because it is too easy to degrade the image quality by piling up unfortunate combinations of the many, many possible adjustments.  But yes, there are some amazing things in Raw Therapee (like Impulse noise reduction) and it is relatively free of the problems one usually finds in open software.  If used well it could be all you need.

Unfortunately it does not seem to handle high ISO D800 raws as nicely as LR, which may have to do with the current 64 bit Windows release being nearly a year old.  None of the built-in demosaic algorithms was quite as effective as LR's on that high ISO stuff.  If you try it, you need to specifically select "system monitor profile" and change the working and output color spaces to ARGB or ProPhoto instead of the default sRGB.
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robgo2
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« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2013, 11:19:55 PM »
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Bob, I have just had a look at Raw Therapee and it looks rather good, thanks for the info  Smiley

Dave
Before you get settled on Raw Therapee, I suggest that you try Photo Ninja for raw conversions.  The ease of use and the quality of the output are both far better than RT, IMO.  I say this having just spent the past two days running numerous head to head comparisons.  Whenever I hear people raving about or recommending Raw Therapee, I scratch my head and wonder "why?"  I think that some people fall in love with open-source software, because they like the idea of it (and it is free), which I appreciate, but in the end, the software has to be judged on its own merits. 

Rob

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Colorwave
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« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2013, 02:28:32 AM »
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That's just too funny for words.

You do realize that a Macbook Pro was recently found to be the top performing Windows laptop, right?  I run Mac OS 10.8 and Windows 8 on my iMac (mostly for testing IE for web development).

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57581290-37/macbook-pro-declared-best-performing-windows-laptop/
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bill t.
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« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2013, 03:11:11 AM »
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^ Or Wintel computers run Mac OS better than Apple comuters.  It's all in your point of view.  It's conceivable that Apple could lock out Windows with a hardware or firmware design change, if they chose to do so.  Something to think about in these increasingly mean times.  Kind of like they way they killed Adobe Flash, not as if that will raise any sympathy these days.  Will continue to use PC's, since I'm not religious.   Smiley
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mac_paolo
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« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2013, 03:26:48 AM »
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^ Or Wintel computers run Mac OS better than Apple comuters.  It's all in your point of view.  It's conceivable that Apple could lock out Windows with a hardware or firmware design change, if they chose to do so.  Something to think about in these increasingly mean times.  Kind of like they way they killed Adobe Flash, not as if that will raise any sympathy these days.  Will continue to use PC's, since I'm not religious.   Smiley
Oh please! Get over it.  Roll Eyes
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ButchM
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« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2013, 03:38:49 AM »
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^ Or Wintel computers run Mac OS better than Apple comuters.  It's all in your point of view.  It's conceivable that Apple could lock out Windows with a hardware or firmware design change, if they chose to do so.  Something to think about in these increasingly mean times.  Kind of like they way they killed Adobe Flash, not as if that will raise any sympathy these days.  Will continue to use PC's, since I'm not religious.   Smiley

Speculation can be fun but revisionist history is another matter ... Yes, Steve Jobs came down against using a Flash player on mobile devices ... and we don't have a flash player for iOS because of that spat and that Adobe never really came up with one (so that even cut out the jail breakers) ... though that could boil down to the chicken or the egg conundrum ...

However, Flash has NEVER been "killed" for OS X ... While it is no longer pre-installed, Apple has done nothing to prevent it from being installed and used. I know the Flash plugin is on all my OS X machines ... use it every day. If Flash is dead or dying, it's not necessarily due to Apple or Steve Jobs ... it's because of HTML5 and now all those aspiring, young web designers won't have to pay a king's ransom to Adobe for Flash CSx (or CC) to get on the playing field.

I could see a time when Apple may not be inclined to offer an in-house, easy solution to run multiple OS brands ... but a full fledged lock out? ... of course it's possible ... but at this point in time, I don't think it's very probable ... Either way, as we have learned this week ... it is always prudent not to put all your eggs in one basket ... After all, working with only a single software solution is about as smart as showing up to shoot a wedding with only one camera ... bad things are sure to happen before you are finished.
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bill t.
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« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2013, 03:42:21 AM »
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Oh please! Get over it.  Roll Eyes

I did!  And it only took 6 months of deconditioning!   Smiley

ANYWAY

Hey Rob, thanks for that tip on Photo Ninja!  Easily worth the price.  The noise reduction alone is worth it.  Would have no trouble losing LR for that.  Miles ahead of Raw Therapee, and every bit as slick as LR, in a different way.  Time invested in looking at this software is well spent.

The bad news...for those of you with D5200's (and maybe also D7100's), it did not handle those raw formats very well at all.  OTOH, D800 raws look fabulous, possibly the best raw conversions I have seen of my test files.
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WaitingForAnR10
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« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2013, 07:06:20 AM »
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I've got a copy of Snow Leopard Server set up inside Mountain Lion as a VM to address this problem with a couple of other legacy apps, but have managed to move on anyway.

FWIW, I've partitioned my main drive so that I can use Snow Leopard as the main OS, and Lion (or whatever) on the second partition.  Easy to switch back and forth, with both having full access to the other drives.

Also use Parallels for Windows, Linux, etc.
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WaitingForAnR10
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« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2013, 07:29:43 AM »
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Before you get settled on Raw Therapee, I suggest that you try Photo Ninja for raw conversions.  The ease of use and the quality of the output are both far better than RT, IMO.  I say this having just spent the past two days running numerous head to head comparisons.  Whenever I hear people raving about or recommending Raw Therapee, I scratch my head and wonder "why?"  I think that some people fall in love with open-source software, because they like the idea of it (and it is free), which I appreciate, but in the end, the software has to be judged on its own merits. 

Rob



Thanks for the tip about Photo Ninja...
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robgo2
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« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2013, 10:14:51 AM »
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I did!  And it only took 6 months of deconditioning!   Smiley

ANYWAY

Hey Rob, thanks for that tip on Photo Ninja!  Easily worth the price.  The noise reduction alone is worth it.  Would have no trouble losing LR for that.  Miles ahead of Raw Therapee, and every bit as slick as LR, in a different way.  Time invested in looking at this software is well spent.

The bad news...for those of you with D5200's (and maybe also D7100's), it did not handle those raw formats very well at all.  OTOH, D800 raws look fabulous, possibly the best raw conversions I have seen of my test files.


Bill,

Glad you like Photo Ninja.  In my book, it is easily the best of the current crop of raw convertors.  I think that if more people try it, they will not fret about the possibility of losing ACR.  Just spend the time learning the presets and the adjustment tools.  The D5200 and D7100 are not listed as PN supported cameras, so, I suggest that you write to Picture Code (the two programmers who created PN), and they will be more than happy to add support.  The same holds true for any other camera that is not yet covered.  The Picture Code people are very responsive and helpful.

Rob

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plugsnpixels
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« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2013, 12:39:55 PM »
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Speaking of OSX on a PC, nobody's mentioned Hackintosh yet ;-). My point is, where there is a will, there is a way. And no I haven't built one, but I like having the option should it ever become necessary.
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« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2013, 06:26:41 PM »
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You do realize that a Macbook Pro was recently found to be the top performing Windows laptop, right?  I run Mac OS 10.8 and Windows 8 on my iMac (mostly for testing IE for web development).

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57581290-37/macbook-pro-declared-best-performing-windows-laptop/

It was the comment about being locked in to Windows only that I was referring to.  You're locked into very little with Windows because it's a fairly flexible OS, unlike the Apple OS which is very tightly locked down.  Not unlike the differences between iOS and Android.
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Sal Baker
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« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2013, 10:36:28 PM »
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It was the comment about being locked in to Windows only that I was referring to.  You're locked into very little with Windows because it's a fairly flexible OS, unlike the Apple OS which is very tightly locked down.  Not unlike the differences between iOS and Android.

I use Photoshop, Lightroom 4, InDesign, Premiere, Aperture, the Nik Collection, Cubase, and all the other plugins and software I could ever need.  How exactly am I tightly locked down with a Mac?  Macs run Windows with simple software while PCs are locked down with Windows unless one is handy with building gear. 

Apple bashing is boring and so '90s.  Time to get back on topic.

Sal
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2013, 01:25:33 AM »
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Apple bashing is boring and so '90s.
Same as MS bashing.

It is more a matter of preference and personal history.

In line with the "anti-greedy-corporate" comments that have been posted against Adobe, one might expect OS flame-wars to be between OSX/Windows on one side, and Linux on the other. I don't get why we need something like Windows/OSX to run something like Photoshop (games might be something else since they seems to depend on updated/optimized graphics driver support from hardware manufacturers). Is it color management, OS visual appeal or the chicken-and-egg problem?

-h
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