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Author Topic: Michael's take on Adobe CC  (Read 18680 times)
digitaldog
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« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2013, 11:08:38 AM »
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The difference is there was never really a reason to go back from 3 to 2. Once 3 was owned, I could stay there and enjoy the benefits of it. Now there's a possibility of being forced to go back. If you subscribe for a couple of years and are using version CC 2 or 3 and decide to stop there's no staying where you are as in the previous model. I'm forced to go back to CS6.

True, there IS the difference but only because of the sales model, nothing more. So Adobe has you by the balls.They did from the day you decided to build layers or other proprietary functionality in their software. But that doesn't mean your data ceases to exist, that's just FUD. No one forces you to go back from CC either, you made that decision. I understand why you'd want to (I don't want to pay anymore). And if you do, just understand the ramifications of this and fix the issues before you pull the plug. Or don't pull the plug. This is now a business decision. Once you make that decision, if you decide to move back, it's a technical issue you better understand and rectify if necessary. The workflow options today are no different than my analog of Photoshop 3 to Photoshop 2, the differences are, now people are actually considering such a move. Let them. But let them do it with a cool head and an understanding of what they are doing to themselves.
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Andrew Rodney
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Isaac
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« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2013, 11:14:26 AM »
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It came preinstalled on my Dell laptop, unavoidable, I never used it.

I don't see how that anecdote helps answer Zeitz's questions?



"After all, facts are facts, and although we may quote one to another with a chuckle the words of the Wise Statesman, 'Lies--damned lies--and statistics,' still there are some easy figures the simplest must understand, and the astutest cannot wriggle out of." Leonard Henry Courtney, 1895
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Isaac
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« Reply #82 on: May 10, 2013, 11:18:16 AM »
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If Adobe is succesful in this, Microsoft and Apple will follow.

"All Office 365 products, such as Office 365 Home Premium, Office 365 University, and Office 365 Small Business Premium, are paid for on a subscription basis. Subscription terms vary by product."
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jwstl
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« Reply #83 on: May 10, 2013, 11:22:35 AM »
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True, there IS the difference but only because of the sales model, nothing more. So Adobe has you by the balls.They did from the day you decided to build layers or other proprietary functionality in their software. But that doesn't mean your data ceases to exist, that's just FUD. No one forces you to go back from CC either, you made that decision. I understand why you'd want to (I don't want to pay anymore). And if you do, just understand the ramifications of this and fix the issues before you pull the plug. Or don't pull the plug. This is now a business decision. Once you make that decision, if you decide to move back, it's a technical issue you better understand and rectify if necessary. The workflow options today are no different than my analog of Photoshop 3 to Photoshop 2, the differences are, now people are actually considering such a move. Let them. But let them do it with a cool head and an understanding of what they are doing to themselves.

I agree. This new business model has caught everyone unaware and unprepared. No one expected the day to come where they would have to make a decision that could affect everything they've done and could do. Photographers have become so dependent on Adobe and the previous model and just assumed it would also be that way. Now you want to ditch Adobe but look at what could happen. By the balls indeed.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #84 on: May 10, 2013, 11:45:53 AM »
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No one expected the day to come where they would have to make a decision that could affect everything they've done and could do.

I'd say it affects everything they could do. What's done is done, I'd assume those people have some copy of Photoshop that created or edited all previous documents and CC doesn't change that. So stick with what you have, as long as you can. Now that could affect Adobe's bottom line!
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Andrew Rodney
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KLaban
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« Reply #85 on: May 10, 2013, 11:58:41 AM »
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Perhaps I'm being unreasonable, but having just spent £630 on PS CS6 just a few weeks ago what I actually want is support for a reasonable period, say 18-24 months of updates including new camera support. What I don't want is to have to give Adobe even more money for CC and the support I should be receiving with my new product.

Thoughts anyone?

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jwstl
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« Reply #86 on: May 10, 2013, 11:58:57 AM »
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I'd say it affects everything they could do. What's done is done, I'd assume those people have some copy of Photoshop that created or edited all previous documents and CC doesn't change that. So stick with what you have, as long as you can. Now that could affect Adobe's bottom line!

I was thinking of those that are considering ditching Adobe entirely by stopping use of Lightroom etc. That could affect everything you've done. As for me, I'm sticking with what I have as long as I can. I just purchased the CS6 Suite a few weeks ago so that will hold me for awhile.
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daws
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« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2013, 12:14:09 PM »
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...What's done is done...

In fact it's only beginning. The explosion from the bomb that Adobe dropped on its customer base is only just beginning to rip through the fabric of a company/customer relationship that has existed for years.
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Gothmoth
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« Reply #88 on: May 10, 2013, 12:59:02 PM »
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In fact it's only beginning. The explosion from the bomb that Adobe dropped on its customer base is only just beginning to rip through the fabric of a company/customer relationship that has existed for years.

look at this and your trust in adobe will be completely destroyed:

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agreement.html
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Isaac
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« Reply #89 on: May 10, 2013, 01:02:45 PM »
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... what I actually want is support for a reasonable period, say 18-24 months of updates including new camera support.

"Today’s Photoshop CC announcement requires a modest change in our camera raw support policy.  Because Adobe is still selling Photoshop CS6, those customers will continue to receive updated camera raw file format compatibility via Adobe Camera Raw 8.  When we update ACR8 with new camera support, Photoshop CS6 customers can work with the new version of the Camera Raw plug-in.  No new features or functionality will be available in ACR to Photoshop CS6 customers as part of those updates. (No Upright, advanced healing brush or radial filter, etc.)  I don’t have a timeline for how long this camera raw support will continue for Photoshop CS6 but I want to be consistent with our past policy of providing raw support for currently shipping products."
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jrsforums
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« Reply #90 on: May 10, 2013, 01:06:05 PM »
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Andrew,

You seems to find no problem or issue with this new model??? In Photoshop and especially in Lightroom your put a tremendous amount of work in parameter and metadata. I think everybody understand you will have the raw file and the final result if you stop renting but you will in loose the ability to use this working data in the future.  

What is your opinion if Adobe in a few year move to rent model only with Lightroom? You have to pay each month forever or loose all your parametric work and metadata... OK with that?

What if Adobe triple the monthly rent or stop evolving the product and you still have to pay or loose all your work? Or you get into financial trouble and are not able to pay. OK with this model?

The key difference between this and other rental models (like a car) is in this case you loose the ability to enjoy all your working data. And you have not the option to buy. And it's no cost involved for Adobe if a user continue to use the existing version like it is with a car. So please don't compare this to a car hire.

Sverre

I essentially agree with you.  However, LR going rental only would be much worse than PS.  

When we finish processing in PS we save the image, hopefully as a TIFF.  If we lose PS, other products will be able to open and work with the TIFF.

With LR, the adjustments are just stored in the catalog (and XMP/DNG if you choose).  There is no "rendered" finished product.  This is only created if you print or export...and most instruction is to not store the end product as it can be recreated if needed.  If we lose LR, the XMP is still there, but the software/algorithms are not available to rendered what we created.

While I might accept PS CC, LR CC would probably drive me to buy a MAC and Aperture.....disappointing as that would be to me....actually, further thought....it would be devastating...!!
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John
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« Reply #91 on: May 10, 2013, 01:12:29 PM »
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another negative aspect of adobes new business model

the need for Adobe to be innovative has gone....
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Pieter Kers
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« Reply #92 on: May 10, 2013, 01:19:00 PM »
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"Let's see...  Two years at $50 a month is about $1200.  Not a bad price for the entire suite of programs."


Peter - I don't know where the $50 per month you mentioned came from.

I was thinking the price structure they've announced for Photoshop...which comes in approx. 360 dollars for 24 months if I understand it correctly. It's still an increase for them over the 200 dollars every 18 months and they keep the CC business model, but users would at least walk away with something if/when they had to quit.

Neither Eric or Jeff addressed this idea so it's either too stupid or too close to a fall back option from the original plan for Adobe.

Ok, like Michael, I'll just hang in there with what I have and see how it all shakes out. I have a life and this isn't the end of it.

Phil
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Isaac
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« Reply #93 on: May 10, 2013, 01:24:11 PM »
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With LR, the adjustments are just stored in the catalog (and XMP/DNG if you choose).  There is no "rendered" finished product.  This is only created if you print or export...and most instruction is to not store the end product as it can be recreated if needed.

Just make an export user-preset that will export a full resolution TIFF without output sharpening to the folder that contains the RAW files.

It's really really easy to maintain both LR catalog and TIFF work products.
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KLaban
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« Reply #94 on: May 10, 2013, 01:27:43 PM »
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I don’t have a timeline for how long this camera raw support will continue for Photoshop CS6 but I want to be consistent with our past policy of providing raw support for currently shipping products[/url]."

Thanks, Isaac, yes I've seen that statement.

The problem is how much longer will CS6 be shipping, a week, a month... We need clarity.
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jrsforums
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« Reply #95 on: May 10, 2013, 01:28:55 PM »
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Just make an export user-preset that will export a full resolution TIFF without output sharpening to the folder that contains the RAW files.

It's really really easy to maintain both LR catalog and TIFF work products.

With all due respect....I do not think you have thought through this completely
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John
digitaldog
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« Reply #96 on: May 10, 2013, 01:32:01 PM »
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I essentially agree with you.  However, LR going rental only would be much worse than PS.

Wow, you agree with me and I agree with you (above), the planets must be aligning!

Quote
With LR, the adjustments are just stored in the catalog (and XMP/DNG if you choose).  There is no "rendered" finished product.  This is only created if you print or export...and most instruction is to not store the end product as it can be recreated if needed.  If we lose LR, the XMP is still there, but the software/algorithms are not available to rendered what we created.

Yes, it's a more troubling situation. But maybe someone from Adobe is watching so we shouldn't say much more.
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Andrew Rodney
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jrsforums
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« Reply #97 on: May 10, 2013, 01:33:17 PM »
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Thanks, Isaac, yes I've seen that statement.

The problem is how much longer will CS6 be shipping, a week, a month... We need clarity.

Pure guess....the earliest we will get any clarity will be CC availability....or the July 31 (?) date to sign up for the special CC offering.
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John
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« Reply #98 on: May 10, 2013, 01:43:34 PM »
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Wow, you agree with me and I agree with you (above), the planets must be aligning!

Yes, it's a more troubling situation. But maybe someone from Adobe is watching so we shouldn't say much more.

Well, actually I was agreeing with Sverre.

However, it is true....I do agree with you on most things.  To an extend, our dialog is over what could potetially be nits.

I think, if you are going to rent PS CC, it is to take advantage of the new function and/or code changes.  If I am going to avoid them, I might as well stay on PS CS6....of course, this is relative to WIP, not TIFF

Andrew, help me save time testing or looking this up....if I save a layered TIFF is the "final render" available...or is that only if I save a flattened TIFF?
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John
digitaldog
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« Reply #99 on: May 10, 2013, 01:55:33 PM »
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Andrew, help me save time testing or looking this up....if I save a layered TIFF is the "final render" available...or is that only if I save a flattened TIFF?

Not sure I understand. IF you are in CC and apply a new feature, like Shake Reduction to a layer, save as a layered TIFF, open in CS6, you have access to that layer. It looks and acts identically as you saw in CC. But of course, you can't call up Shake Reduction there again, it doesn't exist. And you could of course save a flattened TIFF (a version of that should be inside the Layered TIFF too).

Now, suppose you make a Smart Object in CC and apply that Shake Reduction. It will not be editable as well in CS6 and further, CS6 should pop a warning and allow you to flatten that layer (no more SO support).
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Andrew Rodney
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