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Author Topic: Moving on from Adobe, need some final Lightroom advice.  (Read 16080 times)
Edhopkins
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« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2013, 04:57:20 PM »
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The comment: "I will use any tool that fits my use WITHOUT going cloud! " seems very misguided. I have heard this many times in this thread.

I could be am wrong about this but Adobe is not "going to the cloud".  You have been able to down load adobe products from the web (= the cloud) for years. Nothing is changing here at all. (You can't order the DVD sets any more, granted.) You will still be downloading your applications from the web. You will not be running cloud applications or anything like this. It will still be an application running on the machine sitting on your desk.

The change is only about the pricing: buying vs. subscribing.

(And I think the new CC applications will have some nice cloud/web storage aspects in certain cases.)

The Cloud thing is nothing; it is about the pricing model.

Or have I missed something.
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Steve House
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« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2013, 09:36:52 PM »
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The comment: "I will use any tool that fits my use WITHOUT going cloud! " seems very misguided. I have heard this many times in this thread.

I could be am wrong about this but Adobe is not "going to the cloud".  You have been able to down load adobe products from the web (= the cloud) for years. Nothing is changing here at all. (You can't order the DVD sets any more, granted.) You will still be downloading your applications from the web. You will not be running cloud applications or anything like this. It will still be an application running on the machine sitting on your desk.

The change is only about the pricing: buying vs. subscribing.

(And I think the new CC applications will have some nice cloud/web storage aspects in certain cases.)

The Cloud thing is nothing; it is about the pricing model.

Or have I missed something.
Exactly!  With the subscription we have the option of using Cloud based file storage if we wish to take advantage of it, but there's no compulsion to do so and you can keep your files locally if you choose.  The difference is that instead of paying a large fee and going through a validation every time we upgrade, now we pay a smaller fee and validate every month or quarter.  But the applications still reside on the local computer just as they always have and function just as they always did.  The biggest change from a user standpoint is it now appears we'll have to upgrade when every new version is released rather than having the option of hanging on to the older version until we choose to move to a later version.  How much of a problem that might present operationally remains to be seen.
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Rand47
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« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2013, 10:00:23 PM »
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The change is only about the pricing: buying vs. subscribing.

Yes, this information clarity has been helpful.  If a "photographers's bundle" of PS & LR CC is offered at an attractive (mangaeable) price, I'd have no problem at all.  It was "cloud dependency" that troubled me most, and that's not an issue.

"Cloud" seems to be one of those buzz-terms w/o any real descriptive power & much muddled mix of meaning across the digital landscape.   

Rand
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Robert Katz
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« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2013, 10:43:42 PM »
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I think it is possible that there will not be any 'new versions" as we have come to be accustomed to over the years.
As new features are developed for each of the programs there will be an opportunity to download/upgrade your programs.
For example I have had Photoshop CS6 for a while and there have been no updates.  I joined the subscription service tonight and lo
and behold there were updates to Photoshop that I accessed.
Robert
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Robert Katz
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James R
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« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2013, 02:24:21 AM »
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Yes, this information clarity has been helpful.  If a "photographers's bundle" of PS & LR CC is offered at an attractive (mangaeable) price, I'd have no problem at all.  It was "cloud dependency" that troubled me most, and that's not an issue.

"Cloud" seems to be one of those buzz-terms w/o any real descriptive power & much muddled mix of meaning across the digital landscape.   

Rand

I agree.  Change is always difficult and causes a variety of reactions.  Personally, I think the cloud will be the future for all large software firms, including Apple's software folks.  It makes economic sense, which makes for better products. 
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PeterF
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« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2013, 08:56:55 AM »
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Eric, why the over charging for Ps? See my post : http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=78311.0

How did the price reduction for LR4 work out for Adobe? More or fewer sales?

If Ps were charged for a +/- 30% premium over and above what Adobe are asking for it from what Adobe says is the majority of its customers (which if you see my post is actually $7.14 a month) the price for the stand alone Ps subscription would be $10.

If Adobe were asking $10 a month I think there would be a warm reception, and that, for a 30% increase in the profit for Ps from a standard subscription.
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Philip Weber
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« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2013, 06:57:46 PM »
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I wouldn't care if Photoshop by itself cost $20-30 a month...as long as meaningful improvements kept happening and I could opt out and keep what I had up to that point, even if it meant committing to a year at a time to do so.

Ending the subscription and falling back to CS6 is a total deal breaker for me.

Phil
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 12:13:50 PM by Philip Weber » Logged
Schewe
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« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2013, 07:02:24 PM »
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Eric, why the over charging for Ps?

What Eric are you asking? Eric Chan?

He couldn't possibly answer something like this...it's way, WAY above his pay grade...

The engineers don't set prices nor policies.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2013, 07:07:55 PM »
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Well I'm glad you read my post fully Ed :-)
And you're right the word cloud I used in a bit in a fuzzy context and can be wrong in some aspects, yet right in others......
You explained it well, although it doesn't change the end result.


I could be am wrong about this but Adobe is not "going to the cloud".  You have been able to down load adobe products from the web (= the cloud) for years. Nothing is changing here at all. (You can't order the DVD sets any more, granted.) You will still be downloading your applications from the web. You will not be running cloud applications or anything like this. It will still be an application running on the machine sitting on your desk.

The change is only about the pricing: buying vs. subscribing.

(And I think the new CC applications will have some nice cloud/web storage aspects in certain cases.)

The Cloud thing is nothing; it is about the pricing model.

Or have I missed something.

EdHopkins

What you're missing is that the end result is the same.........We will end up renting the software vs owning a time free license to use it. That at least financially is under the cloud approach of providing a service.

What your picking out at is one side of a mix in vocabulary as there is some overlap. Yes downloading from Adobe I have been doing for some time and using the apps on the desktop. Yes Adobe has some apps that are cloud based, and yes Adobe is moving in the direction of subscription service instead of licensing the software regardless of where it resides.

Let's say we purchased 12 months of Photoshop. We downloaded it to the computer, the app now makes a constant connection via web to monitor your usage including how you use the application in some cases... all in the name of providing you with better service.  So after 12 months if you don't resubscribe for more time the application can lock itself out.

Call it cloud with the app residing on the desktop,, or subscription based, either way it is a big problem for those that don't upgrade every time one is made available.
I am on CS5, and I think I can use it for at least a year or 2 , or more. 

Corel Paint is a great alternative to Photoshop, when the time comes, I too will look for alternate methods besides subscribing to a service.

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It makes economic sense, which makes for better products. 
Really? How do you define better? Why wouldn't the next move as much as possible NOT be full cloud usage? Only limited to large file size or bandwidth is the reason Adobe hasn't been able to force that.

Yes Rand, the word cloud is a buzz word, and it can mean more than one thing. For example, I can say I store my backup images on a "cloud" server. You may think I have some company servicing this, yet the server is a NAS placed in a relatives building and it's controlled by me. This is still cloud. VS you paying a company to backup your info, or use a application that is "web access based" or a application that has a frame work on the desktop with much of the function requests going over the web to a company mainframe, etc.

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The difference is that instead of paying a large fee and going through a validation every time we upgrade, now we pay a smaller fee and validate every month or quarter.  But the applications still reside on the local computer just as they always have and function just as they always did.  The biggest change from a user standpoint is it now appears we'll have to upgrade when every new version is released rather than having the option of hanging on to the older version until we choose to move to a later version.  How much of a problem that might present operationally remains to be seen.
_EdHopkins

It isn't a large fee we pay EVERYTIME for license upgrades. It is an upgrade to the one time large fee we paid. Every 3-4 or more years $200 for Photoshop isn't that bad. I have always been able to skip an upgrade or 2. And yes the licensing thing is annoying. Imagine you don't have internet connection some ISP outage. Does this create another layer of complexity to get to work with your app? I think so.  Besides it makes you use the app until you feel the NEED to do the update.
I use InDesign every other week, and I use Acrobat Pro every so often.  I am running fine on CS InDesign from many years ago, my Acrobat eis v8 from years ago. The main app I update is Photoshop and that too is CS5 which I use daily.
With subscription, you WILL need to be current EVERYTIME you want to use the app.

Philip Weber brings up a good point in the what if situation (A likely one at that). If you stop the service in say 4 or 5 years as you see something shift in what you do or any other reason. Do you end up with going back to what you had 4 or 5 years ago?  OUCH!!!
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If you buy a camera, you're a photographer...
Rhossydd
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« Reply #69 on: May 15, 2013, 12:55:12 AM »
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The Cloud thing is nothing; it is about the pricing model.

Or have I missed something.
Yes, you have missed something.
One of the key sales features of the CC is it's global integration and common portal across all subscribers.
This won't matter to individuals that don't work commercially for other clients, but if you were, say, a product photographer or graphic designer, the simplicity of sharing work fast and easily to many client teams via a common interface may become the de facto way of delivering your output.
It's this particular mode of working that's driving Adobe's cloud based model.
If it takes off as they hope, it will be a massive financial success for Adobe and their commercial customers, but us lot snapping away aren't at all important in that picture.

So leave them to it and move on. What's needed soon is an escape route.
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #70 on: May 15, 2013, 06:13:12 AM »
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Or have I missed something.

What you've missed is the fact that if you stop subscribing, you lose all access to the software.  You don't get to keep using at the point of development you have at the time.

I think a lot of people would be happier if they could stop subscribing and keep the software in that state without further upgrades.  The problem is then the same as they have with CS6 - no more updates to ACR for new cameras.  What that idea also fails to consider is that, depending on how long they subscribe, they may not have truly 'paid' for the software when they stop subscribing. The extended version of PS is ~$1000.  If a new customer subscribes for 1 year at $20/month, they've only paid $240.  If they wanted to stop subscribing and keep the software at that point, they should have to pay a 'buyout' fee to make up the difference.  The amount of the buyout fee would vary depending on how long you've been buying.  A long time customer who paid the full price initially and has been paying for version upgrades may have no buyout fee, for example.
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Isaac
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« Reply #71 on: May 15, 2013, 11:43:55 AM »
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And yes the licensing thing is annoying. Imagine you don't have internet connection some ISP outage.

Once more, Adobe Creative Cloud FAQ --

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You will need to be online when you install and license your software. If you have an annual membership, you'll be asked to connect to the web to validate your software licenses every 30 days.  However, you'll be able to use products for 3 months (99 days) even if you're offline.
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Isaac
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« Reply #72 on: May 15, 2013, 11:59:54 AM »
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If Adobe were asking $10 a month I think there would be a warm reception, and that, for a 30% increase in the profit for Ps from a standard subscription.

The price shown for Creative Cloud "Single app" is $19.99/mo for "annual commitment", $29.99/mo for "Cancel at any time" and $9.99/mo for "Requires CS3+ purchase".

I don't know what Adobe Systems Inc mean by "Requires CS3+ purchase" and I don't know how long that $9.99/mo pricing would continue.
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Isaac
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« Reply #73 on: May 15, 2013, 12:00:34 PM »
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Quote
Rows and flows of angel hair
And ice cream castles in the air
And feather canyons everywhere
I've looked at clouds that way

But now they only block the sun
They rain and snow on everyone
So many things I would have done
But clouds got in my way
I've looked at clouds from both sides now

From up and down, and still somehow
It's cloud illusions I recall
I really don't know clouds at all
...

Both Sides Now
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jwstl
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« Reply #74 on: May 15, 2013, 01:56:58 PM »
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The price shown for Creative Cloud "Single app" is $19.99/mo for "annual commitment", $29.99/mo for "Cancel at any time" and $9.99/mo for "Requires CS3+ purchase".

I don't know what Adobe Systems Inc mean by "Requires CS3+ purchase" and I don't know how long that $9.99/mo pricing would continue.

It menas those who already own CS3 or higher pay only 9.99 a month for the first year.
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DeanChriss
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« Reply #75 on: May 15, 2013, 02:44:56 PM »
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Thank you, Isaac. Your post is the first thing related to this fiasco that has made me laugh. It's amazing that lyrics written in 1967, long before personal computers or the Internet, are so accurate in this context!
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- Dean
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