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Author Topic: Worldwide medium format market  (Read 15991 times)
Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #80 on: May 15, 2013, 08:09:33 PM »
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From the Hasselblad website:

http://www.hasselblad.com/service--support/service/about-imacon-and-hasselblad-camera-back-service.aspx

They also have a fixed service price list:

http://www.hasselblad.com/service--support/service/cost-estimates-and-fixed-service-prices.aspx

In the US you can send to Hasselblad USA for service to Sweden.




Sorry, meant Sweden. Anyway, not in the USA. And yes, we ship to Hasselblad USA for shipment to Sweden. Same as we ship Phase One to Melville, NY for shipment to Denmark.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2013, 08:19:07 PM »
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Clean room?

Why would a clean room be needed to repair a digital back when they are not even assembled in a clean room?
Anyone can clearly see that these backs are not made in a clean room...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QOY5qy7SGY&feature=share&list=PLD22E66923E2F8D9C

Hair down, wearing jewelry and no gloves. Even assembly of the sensor onto the back is done without gloves.

It's funny how MF dealers love to use buzz words and fancy language to make MFDBs sound more exotic than they are.


Fred. I'm sorry but I really don't understand. I answered Geoff's questions factually and thoroughly. It seems you're trying to argue with me and I don't understand why you're questioning me.

"Clean rooms" vary from company to company. I have been to Leaf's headquarters and their service center is not DefCon 4, but the employees (and any visitors) had to wear sanitized clothing and there was a level of sealed separation between other compartments.

That is beside the point. My point was that we at CI do not crack open digital backs and expose the inner components to the elements of our environment. Clean room isn't some fancy buzz word I like to use.

Why are you questioning me and trying to mis-characterize my explanation of our service? Why?


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
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MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
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FredBGG
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« Reply #82 on: May 15, 2013, 08:42:18 PM »
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"Clean rooms" vary from company to company. I have been to Leaf's headquarters and their service center is not DefCon 4, but the employees (and any visitors) had to wear sanitized clothing and there was a level of sealed separation between other compartments.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Clean rooms are an industrial standard. There are 8 official standards. The lowest ISO 8 requires even clothing that is not present in the Phase One factory video.
If the back can be assembles without a clean room it can be serviced without a clean room. Clean rooms are required for sensor manufacturing as well as the ICs in the electronics of the backs.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #83 on: May 15, 2013, 08:52:12 PM »
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Clean rooms are an industrial standard. There are 8 official standards. The lowest ISO 8 requires even clothing that is not present in the Phase One factory video.
If the back can be assembles without a clean room it can be serviced without a clean room. Clean rooms are required for sensor manufacturing as well as the ICs in the electronics of the backs.



You're taking my terminology too literally. Fine. A "cleaner" room exists at Leaf HQ than CI. It is beside the point. We send digital backs to the manufacturer for hardware repair, whether they employ a clean room, a cleaner room, or grandfathers closet. The point was only to establish when we send them to the manufacturer.

You didn't answer my questions about why you're questioning me. What's your problem?


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
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JoeKitchen
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« Reply #84 on: May 15, 2013, 08:57:38 PM »
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8 different levels of clean rooms?  Huh

I was told there was 9!   Angry

I swear if I find the person who ruined my year by telling me that, I'll ...   Tongue

Well, back to photo-shopping bird crap off of a copper roof, the perfect before bed activity.   Cheesy
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 08:59:38 PM by JoeKitchen » Logged

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FredBGG
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« Reply #85 on: May 15, 2013, 09:14:20 PM »
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You didn't answer my questions about why you're questioning me. What's your problem?


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Discussion in a discussion forum.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #86 on: May 15, 2013, 09:40:46 PM »
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Well, back to photo-shopping bird crap off of a copper roof, the perfect before bed activity.   Cheesy

I recommend some very good music for those tasks Wink
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #87 on: May 15, 2013, 10:28:26 PM »
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Discussion in a discussion forum.


Ah. Um hm. Call it what you like. What you are engaged in is not a discussion.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #88 on: May 15, 2013, 10:58:21 PM »
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Why is a dealer needed for doing a firmwire update? It's a pretty simple thing to do.

Yes Fred, it hasn't been but a few posts since you informed us all about how simple things are for you, and how you know everything,  and so now please tell us that you have done this many times on each of the zero digital backs that you've really used? Oh that's right!  You don't need any experience with the MFDB's since you have assumed that the process should be exactly just like the Nikon DSLR that you own.  ....  Well maybe it isn't.   On my MFDB, the firmware update included hardware changes as well.  There maybe other things the dealer do as well in terms of calibration or black frame subtraction or other things that are different between DSLR and MFDB.  Ok, so now you're informed and you can go that modeling site where everyone has a DSLR and you can be that guy who's special and different and post like you have been doing about the advantages of MFDB and why people with DSLR's should get one.  And hey presto!  you didn't even have to google this time to put some substance into your posts.  
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 11:00:34 PM by EricWHiss » Logged

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FredBGG
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« Reply #89 on: May 15, 2013, 11:19:34 PM »
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Yes Fred, it hasn't been but a few posts since you informed us all about how simple things are for you, and how you know everything,  and so now please tell us that you have done this many times on each of the zero digital backs that you've really used? Oh that's right!  You don't need any experience with the MFDB's since you have assumed that the process should be exactly just like the Nikon DSLR that you own.  ....  Well maybe it isn't.   On my MFDB, the firmware update included hardware changes as well.  There maybe other things the dealer do as well in terms of calibration or black frame subtraction or other things that are different between DSLR and MFDB.  Ok, so now you're informed and you can go that modeling site where everyone has a DSLR and you can be that guy who's special and different and post like you have been doing about the advantages of MFDB and why people with DSLR's should get one.  And hey presto!  you didn't even have to google this time to put some substance into your posts.  

Sounds like you are having a bad day...

As far as updating the fimware ... this is how it went with the Phase One digital back I owned.

Went to the Phase One website and downloaded the firmware updater. Connected the back to the computer with a fresh battery.
Update executable recognizes the back and checks for available update. Update found and downloaded.
Update gets flashed to the back. All done.
Actually easier than doing it with either my Canon or Nikon.

You claim that I have never used a digital back is bullshit.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #90 on: May 15, 2013, 11:27:58 PM »
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Yes Fred, it hasn't been but a few posts since you informed us all about how simple things are for you, and how you know everything,  and so now please tell us that you have done this many times on each of the zero digital backs that you've really used? Oh that's right!  You don't need any experience with the MFDB's since you have assumed that the process should be exactly just like the Nikon DSLR that you own.  ....  Well maybe it isn't.   On my MFDB, the firmware update included hardware changes as well.  There maybe other things the dealer do as well in terms of calibration or black frame subtraction or other things that are different between DSLR and MFDB.  Ok, so now you're informed and you can go that modeling site where everyone has a DSLR and you can be that guy who's special and different and post like you have been doing about the advantages of MFDB and why people with DSLR's should get one.  And hey presto!  you didn't even have to google this time to put some substance into your posts.  


Eric, it doesn't even matter that Fred says it's easy. That was never even remotely a point about anything. I never said that a dealer had to do firmware updates, I only said that is one of the things that we may do when we have a digital back in our shop, which isn't proving any point, it is only describing what we do. But some people, like Fred, under the guise of "discussion" try to make an argument and a mis-representation out of something for their own obscure reasons.

No, firmware updating is not difficult. However, it is not mindless. Things can happen. We would never recommend our clients update their firmware without first consulting with us.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #91 on: May 15, 2013, 11:35:02 PM »
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Hi,

My understanding is that mounting the IR-filter on sensor is the part where clean room is needed. It is shown in some of the LuLa Video Journals.

My guess is that a deler can help with a lot. On the other hand, communicating with the repair facility directly may be helpful.

Best regards
Erik


Fred. I'm sorry but I really don't understand. I answered Geoff's questions factually and thoroughly. It seems you're trying to argue with me and I don't understand why you're questioning me.

"Clean rooms" vary from company to company. I have been to Leaf's headquarters and their service center is not DefCon 4, but the employees (and any visitors) had to wear sanitized clothing and there was a level of sealed separation between other compartments.

That is beside the point. My point was that we at CI do not crack open digital backs and expose the inner components to the elements of our environment. Clean room isn't some fancy buzz word I like to use.

Why are you questioning me and trying to mis-characterize my explanation of our service? Why?


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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gerald.d
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« Reply #92 on: May 15, 2013, 11:36:45 PM »
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Thanks for your reply Steve -  much appreciated.

Just a comment on this clean room subject.

My IQ180 has just been to Copenhagen to have a fiber removed from underneath the sensor glass. My particular back was bought second hand, and this fiber only appeared about 6 months after I'd bought it.

It had been serviced by Phase on one previous occasion before it came into my ownership, and I can only assume that during that service,  the back was opened in a non - clean room environment and the fiber got in there.

Regards,

Gerald.
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #93 on: May 15, 2013, 11:43:30 PM »
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Ok Fred, I call you on that bluff.  Prove it. Should be simple, just show us some files from jobs with whatever back you used.  500 shots on an old p25+ that you had for a couple weeks ... a bunch of test shots of your son on a skateboard and some of in garden... that's not what I call really using a camera.    I'm not having a bad day, you are because someone is telling you what the a lot of the forum really thinks about you.   
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 12:15:57 AM by EricWHiss » Logged

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lowep
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« Reply #94 on: May 15, 2013, 11:59:53 PM »
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i reckon until all photography is done by drones there is likely to be an on going role for all sorts of humans in the value chain yet another reason why forums like this one are worthwhile even if they are misused from time to time
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gerald.d
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« Reply #95 on: May 16, 2013, 12:07:25 AM »
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Ok Fred, I call you on that bluff.  Prove it. Should be simple, just show us some files from jobs with whatever back you used.  500 shots on an old p25+ that you had for a couple weeks ... a bunch of test shots of your son on a skateboard and some of in garden... that's not what I call really using a camera.    I'm not having a bad day, you are because someone is telling you what the forum really thinks about you.

If the forum confirms you are speaking for it, I'll be first out of the door.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #96 on: May 16, 2013, 12:08:10 AM »
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Ok Fred, I call you on that bluff.  Prove it. Should be simple, just show us some files from jobs with whatever back you used.  500 shots on an old p25+ that you had for a couple weeks ... a bunch of test shots of your son on a skateboard and some of in garden... that's not what I call really using a camera.    I'm not having a bad day, you are because someone is telling you what the forum really thinks about you.

Yea I'm really eager to put some of my clients files here on the forum for you to trash talk them.
Well I'll take a look at the paperwork and see if I have any where I have a sufficient release.

Personally I do not care in the slightest what you think of me.
You can try to paint me as some phoney looney if you wish but I'm actually here to share my experiences and quite eager to share gear too.
Tomorrow a guy is dropping off a camera and a few lenses that I lent him to put his IQ160 on.
Never met him before except exchanging a couple of messages on the forum.
Seemed like a good guy and I figured he could use a backup till he got settled.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 12:14:18 AM by FredBGG » Logged
EricWHiss
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« Reply #97 on: May 16, 2013, 12:26:42 AM »
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Fred,
I've never trash talked your own photos. It's the only thing you've posted that I got anything from.  But you did post the same few images like 100 times already. I think you've got skill as a photographer. But I've noticed that you can't stop your self from some backhanded comments on other people's work - the kind where you let them know you could have done better.   It's too bad you didn't spend your time posting about different lighting or film techniques instead of consistently attacking MFDB makers and the their products, or show us some shots with the different fuji 680 lenses or something that you know well.   People have tried to give you hints...   and well, it appears you have folded rather than show your cards on the MFDB challenge.

 
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 12:32:21 AM by EricWHiss » Logged

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FredBGG
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« Reply #98 on: May 16, 2013, 12:49:49 AM »
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But I've noticed that you can't stop your self from some backhanded comments on other people's work - the kind where you let them know you could have done better.

?
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torger
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« Reply #99 on: May 16, 2013, 01:11:13 AM »
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The dealer model may be nice and all, where it works. The European market is so fragmented (many small countries, language barriers etc) so what you often get is a one-man company 1000 km away whose main income is not from the products they represent. Service can be crap, it really can. When I turned to my "local" dealer for support for my Leaf back it turned out that he had sort of stopped actively selling Leaf backs (he preferred Phase One) and had an out of date price list, also overpriced from favourable currency conversion and did not know how the repair process works. After complaining for a while I was allowed by Leaf to change dealer to someone else, got one on recommendation and they seem good apart from that they don't communicate that often. Like once every four weeks. Support goes rather slow that way.

By far, the best source of support for me has been this forum, but you don't do repairs here, unfortunately Smiley

When it's this dysfunctional I really think one should look into other models or complementary models to the traditional dealer. I think one should shut down those one-man dealerships and instead concentrate to fewer but larger ones, some which has a strong web presence and can sell and support remotely, and the manufacturer should have some process to ensure the quality of the dealers. Currently quality control seems to be non-existent (at least with my manufacturer), and still they strongly urge you to turn to your geographically nearest dealer, and if you live in the wrong place that'll be a punishment.
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