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Author Topic: Continuous raw recording on 5D Mark III  (Read 3987 times)
bill t.
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« on: May 13, 2013, 02:33:36 PM »
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New third-party tricks for the 5D3, but still deep in development.

http://www.eoshd.com/content/10324/big-news-hands-on-with-continuous-raw-recording-on-canon-5d-mark-iii

http://vimeo.com/65260452
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 02:35:35 PM by bill t. » Logged
fredjeang2
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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 03:41:21 PM »
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And the good news is that it seems DNG,

So no proprietary raw on this one. Well done. Otherwise I can't even picture the mess if like in still, every camera maker is going with its raw sauce.
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 06:00:12 PM »
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That footage on Vimeo looks pretty crappy.  It's good that the Canon firmware is more open and thus allows work like this to be done, but I'm not as chuffed about these kinds of high level experiments as some others.  I won't be running out and replacing my D800 with a 5D3 anytime soon.
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dreed
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2013, 02:05:51 AM »
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That footage on Vimeo looks pretty crappy.  It's good that the Canon firmware is more open and thus allows work like this to be done, but I'm not as chuffed about these kinds of high level experiments as some others.  I won't be running out and replacing my D800 with a 5D3 anytime soon.

I'm not sure which video link you looked at but here are two links:
Current 5D III video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PvCRQ-haYYc
5D III in raw mode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6OKNxFpyAX0

The difference is huge if you just go by the tree on the left.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 02:08:21 AM by dreed » Logged
RFPhotography
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2013, 06:04:17 AM »
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There's certainly more dynamic range in the second clip.  But is is solely a product of shooting raw?  Or is is possible to get similar results by shooting uncompressed (or with very low compression like ProRes) and using a different picture style, perhaps a custom style that is built to be flat out of the camera?  The second clip, to my eyes, is too flat and has an almost HDR-surreal look.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2013, 08:41:11 AM »
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https://vimeo.com/66033769 lookin pretty good - my 5d2 is unusable for wides of trees!

This progress is enough to make me not sell the 5d2 yet..

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2013, 08:53:35 AM »
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https://vimeo.com/66033769 lookin pretty good - my 5d2 is unusable for wides of trees!

This progress is enough to make me not sell the 5d2 yet..

S


Agree. This is really good. End of the factory-on-purpose-limitations by manutacturers and big thank to the hackers. More to come soon on Raw from Pana and Sony.

This hacked Raw is still a work in progress. But bravo.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 04:57:02 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
RFPhotography
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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2013, 09:28:48 AM »
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That second clip on Vimeo looks better than the first one linked but to me it still isn't all that appealing visually.  It looks soft and very muddy.  The lake with the sky at about 2:23 is very unappealing.  As I said earlier, it's great that Canon allows this much access to the firmware, and the folks at Magic Lantern have done some really cool stuff; it would be nice if Nikon allowed some level of access for 'hackers', but this still isn't going to make me run out and buy a Canon. 
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dreed
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2013, 09:52:04 AM »
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There's certainly more dynamic range in the second clip.  But is is solely a product of shooting raw?  Or is is possible to get similar results by shooting uncompressed (or with very low compression like ProRes) and using a different picture style, perhaps a custom style that is built to be flat out of the camera?  The second clip, to my eyes, is too flat and has an almost HDR-surreal look.

The look is likely the result of the tone curve (or lack thereof) being applied to the RAW data.

And that's what gets me about this: what software exists to process RAW video from a Canon DSLR? AFAIK, none.
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2013, 10:02:43 AM »
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The look is likely the result of the tone curve (or lack thereof) being applied to the RAW data.

And that's what gets me about this: what software exists to process RAW video from a Canon DSLR? AFAIK, none.

No, it's a different workflow.  The raw footage gets converted to DNG.  There are a couple of converters available, I believe.  From there it can be edited in, for example, Lightroom.  I think other NLEs can handle DNG as well. 
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2013, 10:32:32 AM »
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Da Vinci Resolve if its cinema DNG

What I don't have clear is that if it shoots cine DNG or DNG image sequence of stills.
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2013, 10:49:29 AM »
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The EOSHD site is a bit confusing.  It talks about DNG in camera but then it talks about the stream being saved as a '.raw' file.  It also talks about transcoding to DNG then importing the individual DNG files as a sequence into After Effects.  But then it also talks about the footage being converted to Cinema DNG which is compatible with Resolve.  I think it's probably too early to really determine what's going on and a lot more work needs to be done.
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spreeg
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2013, 02:59:52 PM »
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I was testing this this morning, it shoots to a RAW file that has to be run through another tool they wrote.  Currently the one they have for the Mac is not 64bit so it can't convert RAW files over about 1 gig, which happens very fast, I can only get shot clips, I believe the windows version does not have that limitation.  The ML mod will only record up to 4 Gig files so that limitation is currently back too.  It saves out a series of DNG files which can be edited in LR, it does not respect any camera setting like color temperature, so it all needs to be set afterwards, it also does not save any exif data.  I have 1000x CF cards and still had some dropped frames at 1920x1080, so recording 4k at 24 FPS seems not possible unless something changes.  It did allow me to really dig out some data in the blacks.  Rolling shutter artifacts were pretty bad too, but that was to be expected.  All in all the ML developers are amazing.
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2013, 09:27:02 PM »
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Still a bit confusing.  So does it record to the card as a video or as a series of still images?  And when it's transcoded to DNG, it outputs a series of individual images?  Those images are then imported as a sequence into the NLE of choice? 
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spreeg
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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2013, 01:03:59 PM »
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The recorded file is a single large file labeled as RAW, it is just one file.  You can not review the footage in camera at all, it is not a movie file, just a globbing of all the frames into a file.  When you run their utility it "unzips" that file into the individual DNG files, which you can bring into whatever NLE or other package you want.  Just to test it I brought them into lightroom and did a quick adjustment then sent them out as tiffs and brought them into FCPX (I don't think FCPX supports DNG directly).  I believe after effects does though if you want to go that route.  Does that clear it up?
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2013, 06:07:53 PM »
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Yeah, I think it does.  Sounds like it's recording stills and just dumping them all into a container.  You then import those stills - after transcoding - into the NLE at the desired framerate.  Sort of like timelapse.  Or what people are doing with the Nikon 1, using its large buffer and fast framerate to create small video clips.
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spreeg
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« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2013, 01:52:42 PM »
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Exactly
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2013, 06:28:08 AM »
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To clarify using my experiences shooting raw with the ML hack on a 5D Mark III.
Each clip is recorded as a single file.
This file is converted using another ML program into a series of DNG's.
As mentioned these DNG's can be edited in any way that a single capture RAW file can be edited in and RAW editor that supports DNG.
From here the workflow is variable.
I have found that I can import these DNG's into Quicktime and export them as any codec that Quicktime supports suitable for NLE.
Certainly when using Apple Mac's all the Prores codecs are available as well as H.264.
I have been investigating other transcoding options on Windows machines to give me Prores codecs - but this is still a work in progress.
Others have mentioned After Effects but one is not bound by this option.

The obvious beauty of the system is that the DNG's can have almost anything done to them that any still photographer would be very familiar with when doing RAW conversion work.

Tony Jay
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